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Do we want to include fanon stuff? I mean, to me, Carnymancy speaks to carnival stuff (like dance fighting, confusion spells and so on)-Xewleer

Agreed. We really need a couple more namespaces to toss things like fan-fic and page annotations in instead of tossing them on the legit article pages. --Ichthus (eyeBook) 07:23, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
Especially on a page like this, the Fanon is essentially Speculation on the abilities of Carnymancy. Commander I. Heartly Noah June 3 2009
But it doesn't meet any standard of evidence. Spec->Prop C->Canon, so any Spec we allow should have some potential for being true. I'm okay with entire pages of Fanon, I guess... though I hate it... if it's clearly marked as such. But sticking Fanon on a page that should be telling us facts wrankles my goat. The Fanon splash now makes a reader think the entire page is Fanon, but this is a page for rules. I generally beleive that if you're going to put Spec up that is one of a number of possiblities, all possiblities should be listed, or you're just playing favorites. There are simply too may theories for something like this to include them all equally. I'm inclined to say "Turf It". --Kreistor 05:06, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
I think we're all just afraid to pull the trigger. Considering it's just a speculation on Carnymancy abilities, do we want to pull it into talk, here with the other speculation? For it to be protected Fanon, I think it needs to be a) possible (this qualifies, I guess) and b) not a speculation on basic mechanics. Fanon should be people and places and events, maybe individual items or spells that fit into an established magic class and its known abilities. Commander I. Heartly Noah June 28 2009
No question. I've been killing so much lately that I was feeling bad about it. Done. It's here, but I don't think it'll ever go back. The Fanon folks haven't been doing much. --Kreistor 17:28, 28 June 2009 (UTC)


[edit] Fanon Abilities

This page describes Fanon-level fan-created material. It does not conflict with Erfworld Canon, but it is not official.
  • Carnymancy's main application is ranged attacks and abilities. Carnymancers can resize objects to make them easier or harder to hit. This allows for easier deployment of units under heavy fire, but at a price‚ÄďA unit resized by Carnymancy that's hit with an enemy ranged attack causes a cloth golem allied with that side to appear somewhere in that side's army. Carnymancy is also used to change certain objects of high value into tickets and back. This allows for easier transport of funds.
  • Carnymancy functions as a kind of "anti-magic" both in that it can cast cancel spells (like the "Unsummon Perfect Warlord" scroll) and it can fool caster's magical senses. This fits with speculation about Hat Magic being able to mimic mixes of other disciplines, and Rhyme-o-mancy aiding the casting of other magic.

[edit] Speculation and Discussion

Taken from the Magical Speculation thread in the forums:

  • Feats of Strength
  • Taming dangerous beasts
  • Flying

I think it's probably lots of tricksterism and illusions. Carnies are known for games of "skill" that are rigged to make the "mark" lose while maintaining the illusion of having a chance. They also have their own code-language they can use to speak privately right in front of a non-carny. Another possible aspect is the ability to hold together structures (rides) with hope and duct tape. Possible "in-game" uses might be fleecing other sides of small amounts of Shmuckers periodically, and making certain combat actions seem easier than they are, etc. Commander I. Heartly Noah June 3 2009

[edit] Element and Axis

Carnymancy is Stagemancy, magic using all three elements. It is aligned to the axis of Fate. So a Carnymancer uses all three elements to alter his opponent's Fate, or he uses powerful Fate magic to alter the elements in his favor. Thus he can make the pea under the shell disappear, turn all the cards into Kings, etc. Commander I. Heartly Noah June 3 2009

  • While under the influence of a carnival, people tend to lose track of both time and money, while throwing themselves into assorted activities with great passion. This mental state ends when something external intrudes- they blink the lights off breifly when it is time to shut down for the night, or you suddenly discover you are out of tickets or money or some other critical resource. Therefore, it may be a spell of carnymancy to induce an enemy to make bad and wasteful desisions, not counting the cost- and therefore overextending themselves, until they realize they are in a VERY vulnerable situation. Discussion?

[edit] Parson??========

Can't believe nobody's suggested it yet: They all know that Parson is some kind of caster, but Janis, who seemed to know what type, didn't want to say it.

Carnies aren't popular. Parson's already unpopular. That would be the perfect reason to keep that a secret: Parson's a Carnie.

Parson breaks the rules. Janis says that's his job. Carnies break the rules. Dove says that's their job.

Parson, despite being a known caster, actually gets warlord leadership bonuses over troops, again, in clear violation of the rules.

Is there anyone who *couldn't imagine* that last line of Digdoug 9 being uttered by Parson instead? He tends to be a little less coy in his delivery, but that's exactly what his first solution would be.

All seen carnies so far are some sort of side-show freak. Lo-and-behold Parson entering the scene, your typical, average, thrice-the-size-of-every-other-caster guy. "The giant", or "human potato". Classic sideshow fodder.

Also, most importantly of all, the scroll: The non-carnies can only look at it and see "it's some type of carnimancy".

Parson could read it, could understand it, and was in the middle of casting it.

For "what caster class could possibly be a guy who pulls BS maneuvers like that tunnel trick?", the answer is really, really easy.

On top of all of that, Charlie's a carnie.

The ancient addage is "Fight Fire with Fire!"

So if you have to kill a carniemancer....

  • I'd certainly call it a close match, but there are several major counter arguments.

Parson may well have uttered that last line in Digdoug 9 if he actually knew how Fate worked. But he clearly doesn't. It's part of why he keeps getting stuck with Wanda. I don't even think he's putting much stock in Fate just yet. He'd probably prepare for the attack in the good old fashioned way.

Janis specifically said that Parson is a Hippiemancer and NOT a Mathamancer. She seems to have obtained this info from the Predictamancers and they'd probably know. Carnymancy is Stagemancy, not Hippiemancy. If Parson were a Signamancer (Fate aligned Hippiemancy), that would also provide an alternate explanation for his ability to "parse" the scroll. Analyzing such things is exactly what Signamancy is all about. Signamancers function as lawyers, so they'd have a pretty good understanding of the rules. Using loopholes is certainly very similar to Carnymancy, but not necessarily quite the same.

Warlord casters aren't against the rules in the first place, it's just not a unit type that pops naturally. Parson is a unique unit class entirely. He isn't even native to Erfworld. Carnymancers cannot break the rules in such a fashion so as to become warlords, else Jojo wouldn't have been so bothered by going up against a warlord. Adding more classes to an existing unit sounds more like advanced Weirdomancy than breaking the rules.

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