Talk:Blue Warlord

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[edit] Name

Even though we now know she's Hobbittm, I suggest we leave it as "The Blue Warlord" until and unless Rob names her. Commander I. Heartly Noah July 1, 2009

Rob sent me a PM on the forums where he indicated that both Scarlet and the Blue Warlord do have names. -- Muzzafar 08:06, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
Sometimes in a case like this, an author will abandon his own name and accept the will of the fans. Her name doesn't matter. Promises really mean nothing. I got a big one I didn't tell you about, and I won't. It may not happen, and I'm not holding Rob to it by saying for all to hear. I hope it comes true, but if he can't take the time, then he can't. So, this Warlord may be known as Blue, because we already know her as Blue. And he can save the name for someone else, if it's really good. --Kreistor 15:59, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
Well, they have names, but in the meantime we don't know what they are. If and when we learn them, we can take the trouble to fix everything. But for right now, I don't think we need to make a change to "Hobbittm Warlord," for instance. Better to just wait for the names. Commander I. Heartly Noah July 1, 2009

[edit] Faction Hobbittm

Muzzafar edited the Faction to Hobbittm, but never cited evidence... and disappeared (okay, he's back). Noah and I got wondering where that came from. Noah contacted Rob and got confirmation to move it to Prop C last night. So, no, we don't have any proof we can show you, but Rob will swing by when he can and move it to Canon. It's accurate and substantiated as best we can right now. --Kreistor 15:51, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Side

Though we cannot be certain that the Blue Warlord belonged to a particular Side, a War Coucil usually contains a single representative from all major participants. That makes Blue either Hobbittm, Unaroyal, or Foxmud. Charlescomm is a merc without representation, as is Jillian. Jetstone is Ansom. Vinny Transylvito. There's a marbit and an elf. We later see Foxmud livery and it does not match Blue, and though it does not necessarily have to, it is still a fair indicator that she is more likely one of the remaining two -- Unaroyal or Hobbittm -- with Scarlet being the other. This is the most common belief on the forums. That's why its in Speculation, not Proposed Canon. --Kreistor 02:53, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

You're basing the proposition that she is Hobbittm on having a high siege component, and some belief that a Commander that issues orders must be higher rank than others? That's extremely thin. Unless you have something a lot more solid, I'm going to put her panel back to straight unknown, and remove the "probably Hobbittm". It's not probably anything right now. You can put your Speculation in the Specualtion section, but the blue panel is not spec, it's Proposed Canon, or even Canon. It's got a higher standard. --Kreistor 06:06, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Moved the below from the main page to talk page. -- Muzzafar 07:52, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

She ordered forward the siege when Ansom assailed the wall alone. Erf-b1-p118Same-site.PNG This indicates either she was a 2nd or 3rd in command for the coalition, or that large numbers of the siege came with her side. This would seem to support the idea that she is from Hobbittm, as their small overall numbers would be much more of a contribution if they included siege, and several blue-liveried troops are seen attacking the wall with picks and other tools.

On the other hand, she may merely have been the first of all the Commanders to issue the order, rather than having any rank above others in the Coalition. If that's the case, she could still equally be Hobbittm or Unaroyal. Given that blue-liveried troops feature as heavily in 139 through 141 as any other Side, it is impossible to say which is Hobbittm and Unaroyal. Hobbittm should have 1/8th the presence of Unaroyal troops, but the difference is nowhere near that severe.

A few questions to those who think that either Scarlet or the Blue Warlord can represent Hobbittm:

  • Look at the numbers and then at the comic. There are about the same number of infantry in blue livery and orange livery in the comic. Now pray tell me what makes you think that some of them can represent Unaroyal (1714 units) and the others - Hobbittm (141 units)?
  • It is very likely that Foxmud (that gave 208 units) was not represented at the war council. What makes you think that Hobbittm (with 141 units) was represented?
  • None of the units seemed to have had the same livery as Duke Nozzle. Who or what are the 980 units from Sofa King beside him?

Based on the arguments above I figure out one of the girls is from Sofa King together with Duke Nozzle. (Otherwise it does not reconcile with numbers.) We already saw that a Chief Warlord can wear different colors than his infantry and warlords (e.g. Ansom, Sir Webinar and Jetstone infantry).
I have been bugging Rob with this question for months now and he does not seem to be willing to give an answer. (First, when I asked him on the GitP forums he replied that this will be answered in the new Wiki. Then I asked him on the new forum and he suggested that I should put my speculation in the Wiki and he would either confirm it or edit it. I did that about 2 weeks ago, but he is yet to respond.) So I suggest we stop putting in our speculations on the topic to the main pages and discuss them on the talk pages. -- Muzzafar 08:39, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

In fairness, a small side with a strategically important position (ie. owns a city very close to the fighting being used for supply) can negotiate a position on councils. Transylvito, for instance, sat in on councils while sending only bats. Further, a side that specializes in shock infantry would make excellent troops for smashing through a breach, and may find themselves in the early thick fighting, out of proportion wiht their smaller numbers. So, yes, a small side could be on the council and the front of the line, despite being small. However, this is all speculation. What we do know is that Duke Nozzle represents Sofa King. Foxmud does not use the correct colours, but other troops do. Neither Duke Nozzle, Scarlet, or Blue order any of each other around, so none are superior to the other, suggesting none are from the same side. The best fit is that Scarlet or Blue represent a side with strategic importance, and one represents Hobittm. The question is which, and that is not answerable with a simple order in one frame by someone that already showed she was most in favour of obeying Ansom. --Kreistor 01:38, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

If we know that Duke Nozzle represents Sofa King, then we know Blue doesn't. Elliotbay 04:23, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Great assumption! Then since Prince Ansom already represented Jetstone in the council, Sir Webinar was representing Stupid Elves, right? -- Muzzafar 05:05, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Were I just looking at the numbers and the few troops we can see, I'd agree. To the second point - I don't know why Foxmud is not represented (probably they didn't want to draw too many leaders, which is why there are usually only the 4). Canonically, this could be because one side has a wiser leader, or has more political pull, or made it a condition of their joining the Coalition. But since we've seen blue and orange troops and matching leaders, I think it's fair to say they are both the Chief Warlords of two sides and that these are probably Unaroyal and Hobbitm. Who else could they be? Sofa King? Why would Sofa King have two warlords at the council? Foxmud? Not by livery, which brings us to the 3rd point - Ansom is a poor example, as he's a unique case, singular and far more important than other examples. Even worse than Wanda, who is constantly changing outfits, or Jillian and the others who changed looks for dance fighting. My argument against these examples is that most of these outfits are temporary - possibly even special equipment with stat modifiers. The blue warlord, Scarlet, Duke Nozzle, and the Foxmud guy - they're all wearing basic livery, sometimes with shoulderpads or something. Sadly we only saw one example of Foxmud troops, and no Sofa King troops. But that's no reason to assume they're with groups with entirely different livery. I mean, that's the whole point of how they're dressed! Ansom is an exception, his gear is almost certainly magical, and he wears at least two different outfits. And at least one of them bore a strawberry device, matching Webinar! 1st & 2nd in command in the same side is likely more like Webinar and Dora than Ansom and Webinar. So unless there is some other reason, besides the numbers, which are almost useless when you consider that only 2 people are seen from 2 whole sides (Foxmud and Sofa King) so what difference does it make that we've seen the same amount of Hobbittm and Unaroyal? (Other than we can't be very sure by that measure alone who is with which side?) To be fair, there's not enough info to decide who is the leader of Unaroyal or Hobbittm, but I think there is PLENTY of evidence that they are represented by Scarlet & TBW, just not sure which belongs to which. BTW, I don't mind pulling off the "possibly Hobbittm", but by moving the Speculation here, it prevents any correct information being made possible Canon. - Commander I. Heartly Noah

That's not quite how it works, Commander. Proposed Canon gets promoted to Canon, not Spec to Canon. Technically, Spec could contain anything anyone wanted, but then there's no limits. You can wite "Parson is a gray alien." if you wanted. The standard I have been using is that Spec needs some evidence to jsutify its inclusion here. So Spec like, "Parson is no longer affected by the SUmmoning Spell because he can curse," has enough evidence to justfy its inclusion, weak as it is.
--Kreistor 03:53, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Obviously, by "possible Canon" I meant "Proposed Canon" and just used the wrong word. And if it's not in Spec it'll never make Proposed, which will never make Canon... which of course is fine, when we're talking about something that is clearly wrong (like your example) or Fanon. On the other hand, while there isn't enough evidence to say TBW is "probably" Hobbitm, there is more than enough to say "likely Unaroyal or Hobbittm." - Commander I. Heartly Noah

"Likely" is synonymous with "probably". Cases can be made for all of Sofa King, Jetstone, Hobbittm, and Unaroyal. Each just as strong as the case for Unaroyal or Hobbittm. A weak case can be made for Foxmud.
--Kreistor 15:57, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

I disagree about Likely and Probably being equally strong, but w/e. The case for Sofa King is much weaker than that of Unaroyal/Hobbittm. And what case for Jetstone? That's ridiculous. And if there's a case for Sofa King, I'd say the case for Foxmud would be even stronger, not weaker. But I guess my main point is that if none of us can agree, and none of our arguments make the main page, nothing will ever make canon. - Commander I. Heartly Noah

And here's where I do a little dance: *dances* Commander I. Heartly Noah, on finding out Blue Warlord is Hobbittm and Scarlet is Unaroyal, June 17, 2009, 7:53 AM (UTC)

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