Book 2 – Page 109

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Re: Book 2 – Page 109

Postby mortissimus » Thu May 16, 2013 6:35 am

joosy wrote:Are there a set number of capitol sites in erfworld? Or can they pop in the wild like ruins or natural allies? Haffaton was founded on a barbarian city site - can those be made into capitols after being captured by a non-barbarian side or was that site an abandoned capitol site that the barbarians claimed? if so, why didn't the barbarians become a side themselves - after all, a side can go barbarian, so why can't barbarians become a side? sooo many silly questions :)


I think there are a set number of capitol sites. My interpretation of the founding of Haffaton was that they conquered a city which had belonged to a side where the ruler had died without heirs. Then it becomes a barbarian city without a side. Erfworld somewhat confusingly uses the word barbarian for both cities and units in them which are rulerless, and for commanders and their troops which are without cities (or capital, we don't know) and those can in turn either be leftovers from a proper side or popped in the wild.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 109

Postby LTDave » Thu May 16, 2013 8:00 am

I know it's a small thing, but do we have to keep spelling Capital wrong?

As a noun, capital refers to (1) a city that serves as a center of government, (2) wealth in the form of money or property, and (3) a capital letter. As an adjective, it means (1) principal, (2) involving financial assets, and (3) deserving of the death penalty. There are other definitions of capital, but these are the most commonly used ones.

Capitol has two very specific definitions (outside ancient Rome): (1) a U.S. state legislature building, and (2) the U.S. Capitol building in Washington, D.C. State capitols are located in the capital cities of U.S. states, and the Capitol is located in the capital city of the U.S. If you’re not talking about any of these capitol buildings, then the word you want is probably capital.

The Capitol building located in Washington, D.C. is spelled with a capital C, but state capitol buildings ordinarily don’t have the capital C (which is not to say that some writers don’t capitalize them anyway).


Spacerock and Gobwin Knobs are Capital cities. They do not have a capitol, or a Capitol.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 109

Postby drachefly » Thu May 16, 2013 10:56 am

Kriestor, you are a laugh riot. Never change. Well, maybe a little, if you want.

So, you're so confident that I could probably demand long odds, but I'll go 1:1 to be fair. 30q that the hammer's levitation ability is not restricted to pushing straight up.

Drach, you are now a useless entity to me. Anything means what you need it to at your convenience, which approximates schizophrenia pretty well. Dogs walk on two legs and clouds are made of candy. Because you need it to.


What? If the dictionaries say that levitation only means going up, but common usage is that it's any which way, and some random person says levitation, then what you you think they mean? Do you insist they must have been using the dictionary term, or what is in common usage? (Setting aside that the dictionaries aren't even consistent on this)

This is realism, not schizophrenia. Your examples are factual statements about things, not definitions of terms, so at that level, it doesn't even make sense with the rest of your argument. And... seriously, Schizophrenia? Are you... pfft. Whatever. Put up the quatloos.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 109

Postby effataigus » Thu May 16, 2013 11:07 am

Aster Azul wrote:We're not going to talk about the new artist? Is that not something we do on reaction threads? Anyway, he looks great. And I'm up for anything that keeps Erfworld updating, an amazing comic with such a big following shouldn't have to struggle so hard to be updated.
Xin is still doing the art until the end of book 2. I agree with you that the art on this page looks great!
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Re: Book 2 – Page 109

Postby effataigus » Thu May 16, 2013 11:14 am

drachefly wrote:...
Nice try, Drache, but Kriestor has already said he won't bet quatloos because the very laws of reality and probability are out to get him. His betting against the hammer having flight would make it so, IIRC.

When he starts name calling and generally needing a nap, it means he doesn't have anything tangible to refute your argument. I'm pretty sure Kriestor knows that words have both connotation and denotation.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 109

Postby drachefly » Thu May 16, 2013 11:55 am

Well, that's extra reason to! I mean, wouldn't omnidirectional flight be better than levitation, even for story purposes? He can warp reality and get a cooler comic out of it!
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Re: Book 2 – Page 109

Postby joosy » Thu May 16, 2013 1:20 pm

LTDave wrote:I know it's a small thing, but do we have to keep spelling Capital wrong?

Thanks! I was told incorrectly back in grade school (or at least I remember incorrectly) that if it is about letters its capital if it is about government then its capitol. No one has ever corrected me but ... now I know and that's half the battle!!
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Re: Book 2 – Page 109

Postby LordBiscuit » Thu May 16, 2013 1:26 pm

I find Zhopa's chest hair disturbing, yet awesome in a weird way.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 109

Postby effataigus » Thu May 16, 2013 1:48 pm

Haha, I love your name and avatar, Lord.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 109

Postby themysticalone » Thu May 16, 2013 2:04 pm

When the purple breaks the window, we can see Stanley clearly below the blast. He is also right next to the 'floor', so if he were pushed by the blast, he'd be crunched up against solid wall (and not a hole in the glass).

It's possible he then levitated up and got pushed by the dragon, but also just as possible that he then floated up and over using the hammer after the dragon broke the glass. Rob uses the term 'fly' and not 'levitate' and he's usually fairly deliberate with his terminology. It's possible the characters are calling levitation flight, but it is far from a certainty that this is what is occurring.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 109

Postby fjolnir » Thu May 16, 2013 3:13 pm

I think he called for a purple because it would break the wall without causing collateral damage such as fire or clouds of deadly neurotoxin
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Re: Book 2 – Page 109

Postby bladestorm » Thu May 16, 2013 4:14 pm

'capitol' is among the least of the misuses around here. It's kinda trivial compared to the debate between 'flight' and 'levitation'. People completely abuse the concept of "logic", "Occam's Razor", "schizophrenia", and "speculation". At least with "capitol", it is close enough to the word that was supposed to be used that you can figure out the intent of the sentence.

I don't know drachefly personally, so I cannot vouch for his behavior outside the forums, but at least in the forums he doesn't seem to exhibit any of the typical symptoms of schizophrenia: hallucinations, delusions/paranoia, word salad, social withdrawal, sloppiness of dress/hygiene, or impairment of social cognition. Schizophrenia is often used in place of Dissociative Identity Disorder, commonly referred to Multiple Personality Disorder.

But speaking of drachefly and his betting, I have a counter bid for his 'Hammer conjecture.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 109

Postby mortissimus » Thu May 16, 2013 4:43 pm

LTDave wrote:I know it's a small thing, but do we have to keep spelling Capital wrong?


Isn't it a reference-joke to Capitol City in The Simpsons? No, apparently not as Balder always uses Capital.

Still, the answer to your question is probably yes. Huamn nature being what it is and all.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 109

Postby drachefly » Thu May 16, 2013 6:50 pm

bladestorm wrote:... at least in the forums he doesn't seem to exhibit any of the typical symptoms of schizophrenia ... sloppiness of dress/hygiene...


That would be challenging. Hmm... having an unclosed tag in my sig?

bladestorm wrote:Schizophrenia is often used in place of Dissociative Identity Disorder, commonly referred to Multiple Personality Disorder.


I have over 4 actively used net handles. Does that count?


effataigus wrote:Haha, I love your name and avatar, Lord.

+1
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Re: Book 2 – Page 109

Postby LordAcme » Thu May 16, 2013 10:46 pm

Oberon wrote:Wow. Just...wow.

How hard it is to see a purple break a window and Stanley get into his chair? Did he float back down and run back up top sit down? Yeah... No. He used the 'hammer to get him into the chair.

That's lateral movement, people, which is more than just levitation. It's flight. Just as it's been called, for anyone who has been absent. Flight.


That's not flying, it's falling with style!
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Re: Book 2 – Page 109

Postby Kreistor » Fri May 17, 2013 9:45 am

drachefly wrote:What? If the dictionaries say that levitation only means going up, but common usage is that it's any which way, and some random person says levitation, then what you you think they mean? Do you insist they must have been using the dictionary term, or what is in common usage? (Setting aside that the dictionaries aren't even consistent on this)


No, drach, it doesn't. "Common usage" is opinion, not evidence. And in this case, it's obviously highly questionable. I can cite DnD's Levitation spell, for instance, which is a pretty common source in this genre... far more common than Maglev or Rawlings, since it actually comes from the most common game system in existence. But do I now have to prove that my authority is more respectable than your authority? No freakin' way. You can jam that idea straight down the sewer it came from. If you can't accept even the dictionary as authority, then I have no foundation on which to make any argument. Source becomes opinion, and the argument devolves into an argument of who is a better judge of "common knowledge". You are trying to claim control of the environment by controlling authority, and insist that I must slave to your concept of "common knowledge", usage, or whatever rationalization got you to the absurdly self-centered delusion that my arguments must use your randomly selected definitions. That makes me wrong after the fact, based on redefinition of my statements, using interpretations of language I may not even be aware of. Again, it's feces logic, and I'm not letting you have it.

No, it's your choice of method that is highly questionable -- your opinion of what is authoritative. You don't accept the most commonly respected authority (a dictionary), and simply choose whomever is convenient to your argument. That's not actually a rational method. That's evidence of contrariness, not honest debate. You're not arguing because you're right, since that technique can't make you right. And you should know that -- it should be fundamental. Authorities are selected by agreement where doubt exists, not by convenience of one participant. Why don't you know that? Actually, I think you do. I think you've gone to a very dark place in your dealings with me. I think you've overstepped by a huge margin, and aren't paying attention to what you're actually doing to achieve your goal. Does the end justify the means?

And so I'm done with you. Your means are vile. Don't give two flushes for your ends.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 109

Postby bladestorm » Fri May 17, 2013 10:05 am

LordAcme wrote:
Oberon wrote:Wow. Just...wow.

How hard it is to see a purple break a window and Stanley get into his chair? Did he float back down and run back up top sit down? Yeah... No. He used the 'hammer to get him into the chair.

That's lateral movement, people, which is more than just levitation. It's flight. Just as it's been called, for anyone who has been absent. Flight.


That's not flying, it's falling with style!

There are more alternative to movement through the air other than Flight and Levitation.

Gliding -- Slowed descent, no climbing, and plenty of lateral movement.

Drifting -- Movement is not limited by direction, but by speed and difficulty of movement. this is a very slow form of movement, but at least you aren't bound to the floor.

Hovering - No movement, but you aren't touching the ground. Movement can be accomplished by some other means, such as a fan to push you around or 'walking' across the ceiling using your hands, but movement beyond the initial losing contact with the ground is not supplied by the source of the hover.

Controlled Fall -- Classic Feather Fall effect. Minor horizontal movement.

Counter gravity -- Only able to move in the direction opposite of gravity. Some control of descent can be accomplished by bursts of the opposite direction. typically seen as fast up/slow down, or fast up/hold for a few seconds/slow down.

Hyper Trajectory movement -- It looks like flight, but it is really just a LONG jump. In the case of Thor, he throws his hammer really far, and holds onto the handle/tether.

All we have really seen the Hammer do is move Stanley upward, but the exact means has never been explained or shown. It could even be that the hammer is exerting enough force to defy gravity, and Stanley just happens to be light enough to be carried along.

in the simplest terms, it could just be the Flight special allows for movement through airspace, and that it is a yes/no Flag on the unit. The Hammer has the Flight special, and treats Stanley as a rider. there are plenty of other units that have unexplained methods of air travel -- gwiffons, megalogwiff, archons...
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Re: Book 2 – Page 109

Postby themysticalone » Fri May 17, 2013 11:27 am

Kreistor wrote:No, it's your choice of method that is highly questionable -- your opinion of what is authoritative. You don't accept the most commonly respected authority (a dictionary), and simply choose whomever is convenient to your argument.


I would agree that a dictionary is an authoritative source for official definitions. However, in a comic rife with pop culture references, it may not be unreasonable for some popular culture definitions to be used within the comic, and such definitions (or more accurately usage) of a word may be perfectly reasonable to assume.

Regardless, the comic uses 'flight' to describe the power of the hammer, so shouldn't we be starting with the definition of flight, rather than the definition of levitate?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 109

Postby effataigus » Fri May 17, 2013 11:30 am

Kreistor wrote: I can cite DnD's Levitation spell, for instance, which is a pretty common source in this genre... far more common than Maglev or Rawlings,
If numbers of people participating in a genre matters to you, consider that the WoW levitation spell allows horizontal movement. Sadly, IIRC, there have been more active WoW subscriptions than best estimates of active D and D players since late in the 00's.

I'm confused about why we are even talking about levitating though. Stanley said it let him fly... err, yah, what mystic just said!

Also, I had no idea about Thor's "flight" blade... that is pretty badass.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 109

Postby CarniDollMancer » Fri May 17, 2013 11:54 am

I do not feel like Charlie has a contingency plan for this. All of the things that have been mentioned here about how GK could lose Spacerock and Stanley at the same time seem like they would be very good for Charlie, yet he is still pressuring for Parson to use the scroll and he stopped Parson from justifying his reasoning to Stanley. He did not want the capital moved, and if it were that much to his advantage, he would have let Parson convince Stanley himself. Also, he tipped his hand hard by admitting that he can not just overhear Thinkagrams and intercept the Eyebooks, but can also literally jam comms. It seems to me that Charlie is getting desperate. I think the only person that really knows he can do that is Parson, since Stanley thinks it was Parson who cut him off, but that is still not the kind of information that Charlie would usually turn over if there was any chance at all of the person he gave the knowledge to surviving. I do not think he has a contingency for Stanley changing the capital for two reasons:

A: He knows Stanley is not fond of Hamster and last he heard before cutting off, Stanley said no (and Stanley is stubborn and Charlie knows he is not good at taking suggestions).

B: He gave Parson info about his abilities that he would not have given if he was anything but sure that Parson was going to be getting out of Erfworld (or Croaking) without telling anyone else Charlie's power.

That being said, I do believe that Charlie will come up with a contingency plan almost immediately. He is almost as good at thinking on the fly as Parson is... Almost.
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