Book 2 – Page 108

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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby multilis » Thu May 02, 2013 12:12 pm

(name here) wrote:The owner of a city can move units between zones off turn.


Oops, you are right, so capture garrison (already done) and move them out then create new side and ally.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby Lipkin » Thu May 02, 2013 12:13 pm

Doctor Foreman wrote:
Lipkin wrote:Is there anything preventing Sizemore from paying rands for the services of a Moneymancer in the MK?

That's a good point. I'm not certain. My guess though is that a barbarian caster specifically needs Schmuckers to keep from disbanding (I assume it isn't feasible to hire a caster aligned with another side?)

And seeing as how Sizemore is largely responsible for harvesting the gems of GK, I don't think it's unlikely his entire fortune isn't rands.

True, but we don't know how much Sizemore is allowed to carry around with him. Remember he's the lowest of the low from Stanley's perspective.

All the unalligned casters in the magic kingdom must get smuckers somehow. I doubt all of them do mercenary work. Some must be simple merchants offering services, who then use the rands then make to pay their upkeep.

After all, Maggie got a new outfit from a dollmancer in the MK. Being that Maggie is from GK, and they don't have any allies, the dollmancer seems likely to be an inhabitant of the MK.

Sizemore doesn't need to support them forever, just longer enough for Parson to start making money off his bracer.

The reason I like this solution so much is because Marie stated that Parson would win. If Charlie makes him use the scroll on himself, he doesn't win. If he just avoids death, and loses the city to inferno, he doesn't win. This way, he saves all the living units left in the city, takes the city for himself, and gets another over on Charlie, using his own scroll. And he still loses, because he lost Jack.

I like this scenario, because it's nearly a complete flip of the Book 1 finale. Instead of wiping out all the unnamed characters, and winning a hollow victory, Parson would be saving everyone left to save, take the city, own Charlie with his own scroll, at the cost of losing Jack. Of course, Parson could take Jack's body to the MK and Wanda, but even bringing Jack back as Uncrypted is a loss. But I'd like to see where the story goes with Parson truly in control of his own destiny, and no one to answer to but himself.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby drachefly » Thu May 02, 2013 12:30 pm

Kreistor wrote:(Sorry Drach, you were probably trying to tell me this and I missed your point.)


No prob.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby dirocyn » Thu May 02, 2013 1:57 pm

I like the idea that, if Parson can cast a scroll, he must be a caster--which would mean he also has the ability to link with Sizemore. That's assuming a few rules we don't yet know. Even back in AD&D some folks other than "magic users" could cast scrolls, it's possible (probable) that this one is made for Parson to be able to cast. Parson can find out very quickly--by asking his wristband. Here's another idea:

Ace may still be alive, but captured and incapacitated. Parson could revive him, convince him to turn (the only way Ace can survive), and get him to craft an asbestos suit. Or a fire extinguisher. But wait, Parson might not need Ace for that. Remember, Parson created the mathamancy wristband by imagining it onto his wrist. Way back in book 1. He created an artifact-level accessory--it's only much later we learn that's dollamancy. If Parson could create the wristband, he can probably also make himself a fireproof suit.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby arin » Thu May 02, 2013 2:04 pm

Archameades wrote:I'd like to see Parson order the soldiers and Antium onto Dragonback and up into the airspace, then go barbarian, and start a new side. Provided Sizemore is allowed to go in and put out the Inferno all could be well. If not, at least he can get into the Magic Kingdom. Though even Stanely would see the value in getting all his Dragons and remaining units back for the cost of a little juice.

Not that I think that it will happen.. I would like to see it.


I feel the need to point out that it doesn't seem to be any less taboo to go through an /allied/ portal than it is to go through an enemy one. Sizemore's exact words were, "You don't send a caster from the Magic Kingdom to enter a city you don't control." Also, Parson's not saying, "I'll start my own side and bring Sizemore in," which he'd be inclined to do since other people's lives are actually, y'know... a priority to him and such. He's saying "I'll start my own side and escape" which is basically him acknowledging that Sizemore's not coming in.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby Lipkin » Thu May 02, 2013 2:11 pm

arin wrote:
Archameades wrote:I'd like to see Parson order the soldiers and Antium onto Dragonback and up into the airspace, then go barbarian, and start a new side. Provided Sizemore is allowed to go in and put out the Inferno all could be well. If not, at least he can get into the Magic Kingdom. Though even Stanely would see the value in getting all his Dragons and remaining units back for the cost of a little juice.

Not that I think that it will happen.. I would like to see it.


I feel the need to point out that it doesn't seem to be any less taboo to go through an /allied/ portal than it is to go through an enemy one. Sizemore's exact words were, "You don't send a caster from the Magic Kingdom to enter a city you don't control." Also, Parson's not saying, "I'll start my own side and bring Sizemore in," which he'd be inclined to do since other people's lives are actually, y'know... a priority to him and such. He's saying "I'll start my own side and escape" which is basically him acknowledging that Sizemore's not coming in.

If Parson manages to escape to the MK by creating a new side, Sizemore could turn to Parson, and then the casters of MK wouldn't have cause to complain.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby Cnor » Thu May 02, 2013 2:17 pm

Also, the underpinnings of the taboo are that it would violate MK neutrality. I don't see why going to an allied side, or, even if not allied with GK, one inviting Sizemore in, to keep it from burning to the ground, would be a problem.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby M.A.D » Thu May 02, 2013 3:13 pm

Cnor wrote:Also, the underpinnings of the taboo are that it would violate MK neutrality. I don't see why going to an allied side, or, even if not allied with GK, one inviting Sizemore in, to keep it from burning to the ground, would be a problem.


Neutrality means that they would not aid in a war effort of any sides. I think that includes allowing passages between allies, otherwise Queen Bea could have sent her units to an allied side with the order to turn, rather than merely sending them to the Magic Kingdom with a promise.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby Archameades » Thu May 02, 2013 3:48 pm

I feel the need to point out that it doesn't seem to be any less taboo to go through an /allied/ portal than it is to go through an enemy one.


I didn't think he wouldn't be allowed through, by the laws of the Magic Kingdom. I was more concerned that Stanley might now allow Sizemore to go through and help Parson after he starts a new side without consultation.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby arin » Thu May 02, 2013 3:54 pm

Archameades wrote:
I feel the need to point out that it doesn't seem to be any less taboo to go through an /allied/ portal than it is to go through an enemy one.


I didn't think he wouldn't be allowed through, by the laws of the Magic Kingdom. I was more concerned that Stanley might now allow Sizemore to go through and help Parson after he starts a new side without consultation.


Heh. Also true. ;) But you know Sizemore, he's Lawful as they come, sometimes it seems more loyal to the MK than to GK. :) I doubt he'd go even /with/ permission.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby Vreejack » Thu May 02, 2013 4:35 pm

The inferno rules probably state that the entire hex will be ablaze all at once before the turn ends. This will mean no back-burning, or using a dwagon to find an unburned location. Back-burning might work for smaller fires, but an inferno ought to croak most everything not immune to heat.

But it's true that he only needs to clear the garrison of unaligned units, so the decrypted men and single dwagon have to either join him or be disbanded. It's not clear if you can order units to turn with you when you turn. When Lex Doothis went barbarian we assume he was riding something across the ocean, but maybe he ditched his ride before he turned.

If Parson cannot order units to turn with him then he has to convince the soldiers to join him (possible) and he has to order the dwagon outside. He could also disband everything there with him but I don't think he will. Unless Stanley actually attacks him he is going to need those dwagons alive. The only immediate problem becomes that the unled dwagons will attack on sight if anyone leaves the garrison...except for Sizemore, of course.

If Parson can order units to turn with him--maybe it depends on stack size and the leadership abilities of the commander--then it becomes a lot easier.

When does the bat take its turn? Can it still fly into the garrison? Transylvito is not technically allied with anyone, so I am not sure of turn order. If the bat still has a turn then it might fly into the garrison and screw things up.
So...Watashi wa mizugorō ga sukina koto o kiita, neh?
A Prediction is what would have happened had there been no Prediction. What is scary is that they are also what will happen in spite of the Prediction.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby arin » Thu May 02, 2013 4:55 pm

Vreejack wrote:When does the bat take its turn? Can it still fly into the garrison? Transylvito is not technically allied with anyone, so I am not sure of turn order. If the bat still has a turn then it might fly into the garrison and screw things up.


Transylvito is allied with Jetstone. They're both part of the Royal Crown Coalition II, and therefore the bat is still on turn. But I'm sure it's croaked, it was perched on the tower when it collapsed and it's obviously not providing any intel anymore.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby Titanium Dragon » Thu May 02, 2013 5:04 pm

The real problem with Charlie here is that he has previously asked Parson to calculate out how likely it is that the rest of Parson's calculations would be worth information on the Decrypted, and the odds were very bad. If Parson was likely to die here, the odds would have been much higher, because most of the calculations would go unused. Though him saying GTFO and DIAF are further indications of his knowledge of Earth.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby the_reil_neil » Thu May 02, 2013 6:28 pm

I'm wondering, could the portrait of Holly Shortcake which features in Book 2 - Page 68 be a clue?

Quoth Jack in panel 11: "[Parson] looks for solutions outside the obvious parameters. Sometimes... Something very simple." Prominently positioned to be looking over his shoulder is Holly Shortcake, a Dollamancer known for her production of cloth golems and raiment.

In Book 2 - Text 30, Ace gives us some details about Holly. On the whole, Ace is dismissive of Holly's work but does mention that Holly worked with glass--perhaps there will be some opportunity for Parson to use the inferno to produce some glass tchotchke?

Additionally, Ace speaks a bit about Dollamancy itself and reminds us that it's Fate magic and is "fabrication with a motion element". We know Parson is intimately tied up with Fate; if he is in fact a caster perhaps he's a Dollamancer who's about to create his own artisinal deus ex machina.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby Pokota » Thu May 02, 2013 8:06 pm

Titanium Dragon wrote:The real problem with Charlie here is that he has previously asked Parson to calculate out how likely it is that the rest of Parson's calculations would be worth information on the Decrypted, and the odds were very bad. If Parson was likely to die here, the odds would have been much higher, because most of the calculations would go unused. Though him saying GTFO and DIAF are further indications of his knowledge of Earth.

If this calculation kills Parson, then his (unused) calculations were well spent. Plus we don't know how many calculations Charlie has left to call in.
zyxophoj wrote:Also, it depends rather heavily on Wanda ... not being Wanda.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby ftl » Thu May 02, 2013 8:13 pm

Or it means that information about the decrypted wasn't very valuable.

Maybe most things that Parson could have told Charlie are things that he'd find out anyway over the course of the GK-Jetstone war, or over the course of the war with Unaroyal.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby ManaCaster » Thu May 02, 2013 8:26 pm

M.A.D wrote:
Cnor wrote:Also, the underpinnings of the taboo are that it would violate MK neutrality. I don't see why going to an allied side, or, even if not allied with GK, one inviting Sizemore in, to keep it from burning to the ground, would be a problem.


Neutrality means that they would not aid in a war effort of any sides. I think that includes allowing passages between allies, otherwise Queen Bea could have sent her units to an allied side with the order to turn, rather than merely sending them to the Magic Kingdom with a promise.

Something Jojo said implies that it's fine if you have permission. Queen Bea probably just felt it would be best to let her casters act on their own volition (so long as they only support Royalty of course).
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby Shai_hulud » Thu May 02, 2013 8:55 pm

effataigus wrote:Can you just roll well and survive an inferno (as you seem to be suggesting)? Was Sylvia assuming that they could get the blaze under control after they had the city? Was her idea just really profoundly bad?
Wondered about this too. Text says everyone died, but Sylvia survived her first inferno. Either she was lying, Parsons klog was wrong, or Jojo did something more than just stop her from dying after the fire.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby ftl » Thu May 02, 2013 8:59 pm

No, I think she didn't survive, Jojo just cheated and brought her back.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby drachefly » Thu May 02, 2013 9:58 pm

If permission isn't enough, how do barbarian casters in the MK get work? Form an alliance, I guess?

Well, if they can do THAT, then Parson can do that.
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