Book 2 – Page 108

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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby Finwe » Wed May 01, 2013 5:18 pm

ftl wrote:Ooh, good call.

Options:
1) Cast the spell on the fire! Ok so that seems like it's sort of cheating and probably shouldn't work, but it might.
2) Cast the spell on, say, Jack's body! It goes home, wanda decrypts it there, they figure out a plan.
3) Cast the spell on a group of people - Parson and a bunch of the dwagons and hobgobwins. Parson's home might be somewhere else, but the dwagons and hobgobwins all come from GK, so the group as a whole goes "home" there.


Bogo wrote:Charlie writes "... casting that spell on yourself..."

So doesn't this mean that Parson could cast the scroll at somebody or something else? Wouldn't that open up some options?



These are both awesome ideas. However, you're assuming the spell does what two Carneymancer's have said it does, which is not good odds. On the other hand, Parson may be able to use the bracer to determine the odds that the spell will actually do what he wants it to, so it's worth at least spending a calculation to see if that is a viable option.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby numinae » Wed May 01, 2013 5:56 pm

So, forgive me if this has been posited before, but I wanted to throw my predictamancy on the table.

Spoiler: show
Been thinking about *why* Charlie wants Parson to go home vs just killing him, and I think the scroll isn't going to send him home. I think it's going to send him back to Kansas, which is no place like home. To Judy Gale, so he can get the shoes. So he can use them to get back to his real home, Erfworld. So that Charlie can take them from him, so that he can be a two Arkentool side too. How Charlie can snag the shoes, I'm not really sure, but I'd bet he has a plan there as well.


Outside of that, man have I been loving the last few updates. I'm sad for Jack, but I can't wait to meet him as decrypted. He always had an unsettling side to him, but as decrypted, I can see him becoming a seriously interesting antagonist to Parson. My guess for the absolute endgame finale? Wanda + decrypted Jack vs Parson and Charlie.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby Chit Rule Railroad » Wed May 01, 2013 6:00 pm

Remote linking with Parson would be an interesting way for Sizemore to die.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby Aquillion » Wed May 01, 2013 7:26 pm

Finwe wrote:These are both awesome ideas. However, you're assuming the spell does what two Carneymancer's have said it does, which is not good odds. On the other hand, Parson may be able to use the bracer to determine the odds that the spell will actually do what he wants it to, so it's worth at least spending a calculation to see if that is a viable option.
Parson has unlimited calculations.

(Although not, at the moment, unlimited time.)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby Aquillion » Wed May 01, 2013 7:28 pm

ftl wrote:Ooh, good call.

Options:
1) Cast the spell on the fire! Ok so that seems like it's sort of cheating and probably shouldn't work, but it might.
Best part of this plan: If the scroll, as some have suggested, teleports the target to Charlie instead of to Earth...
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby Wren » Wed May 01, 2013 7:37 pm

Jamus wrote:Charlie seriously tipped his hand here.

But back to Charlie tipping his hand. This kind of desperation from him is way out of character. But also, all the trouble he went to to get Parson his get out of jail free scroll- why bother, if he's about to burn up? Either he's sympathetic to Parson in some way, (because they're both "real people" from the "real world" perhaps, similar to how Judy didn't kill Charlie), or he's still afraid Parson has some way out of this that he doesn't know.


Charlie is desperate for Parson to use the scroll. Parson MUST use the scroll for Charlie to win. Why? Because it is Predicted he will do certain things, like defeat charlie, fulfil other prophesies.

Parson can't die in the fire. Charlie knows this. What he is counting on is putting him in a shitty enough situation that he is forced to break Fate and use the scroll. This will undo the prophesy and give Charlie a way out of his Fate of being defeated as well.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby Lipkin » Wed May 01, 2013 9:06 pm

What if Parson uses Signamancy on the GK units, or on Jetstone? If Signamancy is the magic of physical appearances effecting the nature of a thing of person, what would happen if Parson were able to change the livery of the GK units to that of Hamstard? Would they turn with him should he go barbarian and claim the city?

Parson could be ruler, and Antium his chief warlord.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby the_reil_neil » Wed May 01, 2013 9:27 pm

Loooooong time lurker who just registered to mention two things.

A) Nobody seems to have mentioned that it's possible that the scroll has been specifically designed to allow a non-caster to cast it. This seems like the sort of cheat which could potentially be within the realm of carnymancy. Perhaps the scroll is castable by any type of unit, or perhaps it's been specifically designed to be cast by Parson, caster or not. I'm still not convinced that Parson is a caster.

B) I don't recall seeing anyone mention (forgive me if it has been) that in a conversation between Ansom and Ossomer on Book 2 - Page 10, Ossomer demands Ansom turn around and march home. Ansom replies, "I am home." I think that there's something to be said for the theories which posit that Parson's home is now Erfworld, rather than Stupidworld. Ansom's assertion, I believe, can either support this theory or undermine it. On the one hand, Ansom demonstrates the adage that 'home is where the heart is'--surely Parson's heart is now with Erfworld. At the same time, however, Ansom insists that his home remains his original home despite his newfound devotion to Wanda.

Tiny bites of food for thought.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby Lipkin » Wed May 01, 2013 9:44 pm

I think it's worth noting that if Parson is a Hippymancer, he's likely not a Florist. It's weird, with the exception of Hippymancers, casters are usually identified by their discipline, not by their class. Wanda is a Croakamancer, not a Naughtymancer, for example. Olive Branch and Janis are both Florists, and use Flower Power. Both evoke Flower Child appearances. Sizemore had a one turn stand with a Date-a-mancer, and she was basically Uhura from Star Trek. Uhura was technically a Hippymancer, but looked nothing like we would think of when we hear Hippymancer, instead looking like someone who would analyze data.

If Parson is a caster, which would explain his ability to enter the magic kingdom, he would be a Hippymancer by benefit of being a Signamancer. In addition to everything on Erf looking like something from Stupidworld, and thus reflecting it's inner meaning to him, think about his appearance when he first arrives. While yes, his appearance has changed during his time on Erf, when he first arrives, he is wearing a T-shirt with Hamstard on it. As Parson says to Bogroll, he can think of nothing better to represent himself.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby Urf » Wed May 01, 2013 9:57 pm

Cast the spell on Spacerock; leaving Parson, Antium, and the rest in a blank hex.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby Magothys » Wed May 01, 2013 10:26 pm

<tinfoil>
Parson will negotiate with Haggar for his own "capture", since Haggar's forces have move, are nearby, have no loyalty to the coalition and mutually dislike Charlie.
Reasoning:
1. Sizemore is unavailable:
a. Charlie can intervene with thinkagrams.
b. Stanley is unwilling to change the capital.
c. If the GMTTA could facilitate a remote link with Sizemore, they would be breaking neutrality by intervening in Spacerock.

2. Parson would only use the scroll as a last resort.

3. If Parson is a caster with a specialty, odds are it's Hippiemancy and not Dirtamancy. And not being an experienced caster, his influence on the inferno would at best be reducing it enough to get out of the portal room.

4. It was a mechanic introduced/brought up in Book 2 on page 9 with Ossomer. If any side is going to do it, it's Haggar's, and they have some incentive to do so. At the very least they are mutual enemies of Charlie.

5. Storyline-wise, Haggar seems like an oddball. Their inclusion so far has been extraneous besides improving Charlie's relation with Jetstone, which could have been well enough with just Kingworld.

6. The "surrender to the doombat" fugitive approach that's been mentioned doesn't appear feasible:
a. Does Parson know about the doombat?
b. Do new fugitives get move on the same turn? (EDIT: They do. Klog 5 mentions it regarding prisoners.)
c. Fugitive mechanics haven't been discussed in detail outside Inner Peace, and the author wanted the written segments to be optional to understanding the main story.
</tinfoil>

Cons:
1. Parson would not trust Haggar. They might try to take him as a prisoner, unless its a condition Parson allows.
2. Parson may not know about Haggar's low loyalty; Antium might have to bring it up, and time is getting short for conversation.
3. I feel like Jack and Ace are dead in the same room for a reason. Wanda might be set up to find them later, but this won't be possible if the corpses are too roasted to decrypt from the city burning (i.e. Bogroll). Of course, the volcano erupting still left plenty of leftover units to decrypt, including Ansom. It may not matter.
4. How would Parson contact Haggar to discuss it without thinkagrams?
5. How many of Charlie's archons are still monitoring the area, and would they notice? If so, this could incite Charlie to attack Haggar since Charlie explicitly said his intent was to take down GK, so they may not be willing to help Parson.
Last edited by Magothys on Thu May 02, 2013 11:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby Lamech » Thu May 02, 2013 12:08 am

Who started the fire? Charlie! So where does that make the fire at home? Charlescomm! Parson just needs to cast the scroll at the fire.

Or not, but it would be pretty funny.

Charlie: Ah, so glad you decided to cast the spell. Well, it was not nice knowing you. I hope to never see you again.
Parson: Sweet, I cast the scroll it worked! I'm safe!
Charlie: Wait, you're still here? I thought you cast the... Parson I will get you for this!
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby Doctor Foreman » Thu May 02, 2013 12:51 am

Urf wrote:Cast the spell on Spacerock; leaving Parson, Antium, and the rest in a blank hex.


"The city goes, but the fire remains. Still inferno."
"If you leave out important things or events that you know about, the story is strengthened. If you leave or skip something because you do not know it, the story will be worthless." - Hemingway
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby TheMutant » Thu May 02, 2013 2:00 am

yknow, all this talk of the scroll makes me wonder what relation this page has to all this shenanigans.

Specifically, the part where Marie, with an alarmed look on her face (as opposed to the chill, 'everything's going according to plan' look most Predictamancers wear, including, notably, right before Parson heads into the portal), says of Jojo, "Don't let him cast that!"

Why was she worried about that, but not about Parson walking into a trap? If having the scroll cast then would have been problematic, I don't think that it's going to be cast on Parson now, since Marie and her Predictamancer buddies seem chill about what was to come when Parson went through. But then, if Fate is Fate, what problem could sending Parson home have caused? It'd just mean he did what he was Fated to, just in a more circuitous way, right? This Fate stuff ties my brain in knots a bit, but if she was anxious about the spell being cast on him but not about him entering the portal, it might mean that the scroll's definitely not going to be used (or at least, not on Parson), since she and the other Predictamancers seem to have an 'everything's going as expected' attitude right now.

sorry for any incoherence or redundancy :D;
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Sixty wrote:Obviously the mystery caster has no particular feelings one way or the other about Parson, he simply heard "cue the Benny Hill music" and gave chase, compelled to do so by forces outside his control.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby Dante » Thu May 02, 2013 2:45 am

Chit Rule Railroad wrote:Remote linking with Parson would be an interesting way for Sizemore to die.

This seems like the likely course of action. Charlie will shoot himself in the foot once again by taking payment from Parson to teach Parson that he has another game-breaking ability. If he could cast the scroll, then that means he can cast spells, and that means he can be part of a link. But then, as far as we know, only Charlie has the ability to remote link. So it would require some pretty badass social engineering skills on Parson's part to convince Charlie to not only link up with him, but to let Sizemore into the link. However, from there the sequence of events is clear. Parson uses the link-up to squelch the inferno, Charlie rages at getting duped by Parson yet again and tries to lobotomize him by slamming the link shut, but Sizemore takes it on the chin instead.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby Vreejack » Thu May 02, 2013 6:02 am

Magothys wrote:<tinfoil>
Parson will negotiate with Haggar for his own "capture", since Haggar's forces have move, are nearby, have no loyalty to the coalition and mutually dislike Charlie.
Reasoning:

6. The "surrender to the doombat" fugitive approach that's been mentioned doesn't appear feasible:
a. Does Parson know about the doombat?
b. Do new fugitives get move on the same turn?
c. Fugitive mechanics haven't been discussed in detail outside Inner Peace, and the author wanted the written segments to be optional to understanding the main story.
</tinfoil>


The bat may well show up very soon. It is about to DIAF as well, and Transylvito may well want to see what is going on in the throne room. Heck, I would want to see; wouldn't you?
There needs to be a mechanism for moving captured units. Obviously if they are in a cart they will use the cart's move, but what if they are on foot? If you capture an army you are not going to be able to cart them all. For this reason I think that a unit's move is reset when it is captured. This is clearly different from what happens when you form an alliance.

On the PRO side of the argument, Haggar would love to take Parson aboard if it meant getting vengeance on Charlie.
So...Watashi wa mizugorō ga sukina koto o kiita, neh?
A Prediction is what would have happened had there been no Prediction. What is scary is that they are also what will happen in spite of the Prediction.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby Vreejack » Thu May 02, 2013 6:12 am

Another option for Parson.

If he disbands the dwagons he only needs to convince the other units to turn to his side. Clearly an argument can be made that it would be an act of loyalty to do so, assuming they turn back later. The question is, can they actually do it? With the fire at their backs, no other options, no enemies to fight and the only remaining duty being to preserve their own lives, it seems plausible. Especially since Rob has already gone through the trouble to show us a decrypted unit turning.

Oh, of course there is an enemy unit in the hex. That furshlugginer bat is almost guaranteed to cause troubles for our boy.
So...Watashi wa mizugorō ga sukina koto o kiita, neh?
A Prediction is what would have happened had there been no Prediction. What is scary is that they are also what will happen in spite of the Prediction.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby arin » Thu May 02, 2013 7:55 am

Hmm... lots of interesting theories floating around. Guess I'll weigh in on a few of them:

1) Regarding Charlie's motivation: I agree that taunting Parson has an ulterior motive, although I think the motive could be as simple as keeping him cut off from GK. Maybe blocking their signals requires him to be actively sending signals of his own. That's my actual take on it, but... as long as we're speculating, we do know that Charlie was keen on getting Parson and his Artifact over to Charlescomm. If Parson uses the scroll to go home, he'd no longer be an Erfworld unit with a Duty to GK... and if Charlie happens to have a new summoning spell on hand to bring Parson /back/, something we know he's familiar with from the Book 0 updates, wouldn't Parson then have a Duty to Charlescomm? :)

2) "Fate is Inevitable, but our Path to it is not." Despite Jojo and Maggie and Parson all asserting the idea of free will as a possibility, we've never, to my knowledge, ever seen a Predictamancer proven wrong in the entire strip. Ever. Which means there's no empirical evidence that any Predicted event even /can/ be avoided (in fact we know Wanda actively tried for hundreds of turns before giving up), and if that's the case, we know Parson will remain alive and in Erfworld because of Marie's prediction that Parson and Janis will one day stack up together.

3) Like most of you, I'm hoping that all of our speculation is dead wrong, but honestly I don't expect it. There are hundreds of us, all now at least lightly trained in lateral thinking, and we know the situation about as well as Parson does. :) It'd be amazing if he came up with something that none of us thought of. I scoffed at the theory for a /very/ long time, but now I'm starting to think the most likely choice is that Parson will, indeed, spin off his own side. Arguments in support of that theory:
- His primary connections to Gobwin Knob were Jack (now croaked), Maggie (now probably seen with more than a bit of distaste, since she mind controlled her ruler and kept vital info from him), and Wanda (who we know Parson is seeing as more and more going down a dark road, after all he did refer to her recently as Cruella de Ville). Add self-preservation to the mix and his Loyalty stat to his current side is probably wicked low.
- He doesn't need to croak any unit to do this, all he needs to do is send the units out of the garrison, as I'm pretty sure it's only the garrison that needs to be uncontested for the city to be claimed (unless founding a new side is a special case, but even then, the decrypted are already doomed and red dwagons are ultimately just expendable animals, so I don't think Parson would have a very hard time ordering them to fall on their swords before switching sides). The doombat is highly unlikely to be an issue, I'm sure some dwagon ate it off panel by now, we already know it's not in the garrison or GK's control of Spacerock would still be contested.
- There is, however, one /huge/ problem: Parson's upkeep. More than a thousand schmuckers a turn, and his new side would not have any treasury to draw from. Of course, fleeing to the MK, I could easily see Isaac and the other Great Minds paying that upkeep in return for Parson remaining for his briefing, but it would put him over quite a barrel with them until Spacerock popped a few units to forage (assuming, of course, it wasn't immediately taken by someone nearby).

Now, the fun part, the reason why I decided to chime in: What would Parson's side be called? :) Possibilities in my head include:

- Stupidside (irony at it's best)
- The Parsonage
- Hamstard

I'm sure there's better ideas out there. :)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby Lipkin » Thu May 02, 2013 8:30 am

arin wrote: - He doesn't need to croak any unit to do this, all he needs to do is send the units out of the garrison, as I'm pretty sure it's only the garrison that needs to be uncontested for the city to be claimed (unless founding a new side is a special case, but even then, the decrypted are already doomed and red dwagons are ultimately just expendable animals, so I don't think Parson would have a very hard time ordering them to fall on their swords before switching sides). The doombat is highly unlikely to be an issue, I'm sure some dwagon ate it off panel by now, we already know it's not in the garrison or GK's control of Spacerock would still be contested.
- There is, however, one /huge/ problem: Parson's upkeep. More than a thousand schmuckers a turn, and his new side would not have any treasury to draw from. Of course, fleeing to the MK, I could easily see Isaac and the other Great Minds paying that upkeep in return for Parson remaining for his briefing, but it would put him over quite a barrel with them until Spacerock popped a few units to forage (assuming, of course, it wasn't immediately taken by someone nearby).

Now, the fun part, the reason why I decided to chime in: What would Parson's side be called? :) Possibilities in my head include:

- Stupidside (irony at it's best)
- The Parsonage
- Hamstard

I'm sure there's better ideas out there. :)
Parson would need to be the only unit in Spacerock. But I just realized something.

Parson could cast the scroll on the Decrypted units. It returns them all to Gobwin Knob/Jetsone (depending upon how Decrypting effects their home). Parson is now the only unit in Spacerock. Parson goes barbarian, starts his own side, and gets Sizemore through the portal. Sizemore turns to Parson's new side, because unlike Stanley, Parson doesn't want to go to war out of greed or battle lust, he just wants to kick Charlie's ass. Sizemore, a filthy rich rock star, is able to keep the side funded until they are able to start making bank. Jojo did say Parson should use the scroll if he was ever feeling "free willy." Using it on himself like Charlie suggests doesn't seem to do that, but it could be argued that Overlords are the only ones on Erf who truly have free will.

As for the name of Parson's new side, I liked the titled suggested by another poster.

Hamsterdam. Though personally I'd tack a "New" on there.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby Doctor Foreman » Thu May 02, 2013 8:47 am

Lipkin wrote:Sizemore, a filthy rich rock star, is able to keep the side funded until they are able to start making bank.


The thing is, Sizemore is rich in Rands, while normal Erfworld economics is dependent on Schmuckers. As far as I can tell Rands exist for the purpose of being immune to Moneymancy and therefore preventing Moneymancers from gaming the system. Having Rands be exchangeable at a fixed rate for Schmuckers or giving them "real-world" applicability outside the Magic Kingdom would seem to negate that.
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