Book 2 – Page 107

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Re: Book 2 – Page 107

Postby Oberon » Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:14 am

kefkakrazy wrote:Daaaaaaaaaang, so here we see the real steel trap snap shut.

And this is why we have the "slately=pawn" symbology, because I'm sure at least some of you guys have predicted that this is less a ploy to capture Parson than it is to turn him. Charlie had him over a barrel before and seemed willing to offer him a darn fine deal; now Charlie has him inside the barrel which is currently on fire, which I doubt is a very solid bargaining position.
Yeah, but remember that Kinko's offered him free copies. Parson isn't partial to accepting "take it or leave it" deals.

kefkakrazy wrote:I haven't been trying to think ahead very much, just so I could take things as they come, but right now, I'm still slightly unsure if Charlie's going to try to proposition Parson (at enormous cost to Parson; thinking "indentured servitude" would be a step up) or if he's just going to cut his losses and try to take him out.

My PERSONAL bet would be on option B, but that's more hope than anything else; Rob's been good to us so far with delivering quality story, but Parson as a Charlie captive sounds rather unappetizing, considering it would largely neutralize him as a force for quite some time.
Option A would violate a lot of what we've recently learned about Charlie. He doesn't have any units with free will. No warlords or troops, just archons ruled through his attunement (which might possibly be able to pull an Ossomer type turning), and mindless golems. He occasionally or often hires casters from the MK, but the casters almost certainly never even see him, since he isn't even seen by the vast majority of archons, and since he was able to link with Vanna across a great deal more space than a single hex. He was betrayed by his daughter, so this sort of extreme reaction makes sense for the character, and especially for the classic villain character.

===

On the speculation that Charlie is able to not only eavesdrop on the Eyebooks, but disconnect/jam/whatever, plus potentially fizzling Maggie's thinkagram, I sure hope not. Charlie had the power of convenience all throughout Book 1. As in, whatever convenient new power he needed to keep the plot moving along, he suddenly revealed. And he is still revealing more powers almost every time it's needed for the plot in Book 2. It becomes tiresome, and it is not how a well written story is plotted.

And he supposedly doesn't even need any new powers to keep his trap closed. He just (somehow) fooled Clonely into an unnecessary "desperate battle for the throne room to switch the capital", Parson is in the Inferno and will die without some kind of an out. If Charlie is now revealed to be closing off Parson's desperate avenue for escape via capital change by fizzling Maggie's thinkagram, and blocking Stanley's Eyebook, then it wasn't a very good trap to begin with, was it? And if Charlie has power over every single aspect of thinkamancy, anywhere, then why didn't he stop the volcano decrypting link?

Swodaems wrote:It is about damned time somebody gave Parson a honest critique about his battlefield performance. He has been making a mess of it for a while now and deserves the calling out.
No, not at all. Only the Kingworld (*ptui!*) prevented the decapitation of Jetstone. Since then Parson has turned utter defeat into, at the very least, a Pyrrhic victory.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 107

Postby Aquillion » Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:46 am

Oberon wrote:
Swodaems wrote:It is about damned time somebody gave Parson a honest critique about his battlefield performance. He has been making a mess of it for a while now and deserves the calling out.
No, not at all. Only the Kingworld (*ptui!*) prevented the decapitation of Jetstone. Since then Parson has turned utter defeat into, at the very least, a Pyrrhic victory.
Sort of. His decision to move into Jetstone personally remains a baffling and unnecessary risk spurred mostly by tactically-irrelevant emotional issues on his part.

But also, he's failed to keep his troops in line, which is his responsibility as Chief Warlord. He's given terrible orders or no orders at all. Consider the following mistakes, all of which could have been avoided if Parson had given more specific orders:

Jack destroying the tower. All Parson had to do was be more clear about his plans to avoid this. This wasn't catastrophic on its own, but it's a sign of the problems with Parson's leadership. And it is a problem with Parson's leadership -- Jack apologized, but whose job was it to make the plans clear to him?

Wanda entering the portal. This remains the biggest WTF moment so far, since absolutely everything that went wrong since is the direct result of this one baffling mistake. Because she went into the portal, the mentally-unstable Sylvia was left in charge, Ossemer turned, everyone lost Wanda's leadership bonus, and everyone lost the constant decroaking from Wanda which was really their entire plan. Some of these things couldn't have been predicted, but most of them could've been. And there was no reason for Wanda to enter the portal! Aside from getting her off the battlefield (which was unnecessary, since they were winning easily while she was there), absolutely no benefit was obtained from it. Jack, who was almost out of juice and therefore tactically almost useless, could have gone alone to consult with Parson without leaving their side without taking the vital croakamancer / pliers off the battlefield. And Wanda entered the portal entirely because Parson was unclear about the plans -- she thought she had to speak with him. All Parson had to do to avoid this was say "STAY THERE NO MATTER WHAT, I'M JUST COMING TO BRING MY WARLORD BONUS."

(Parson's presence probably wouldn't even have been necessary if Wanda had stayed put and kept providing the pliers / croakamancer bonus. But I suspect part of the reason Parson didn't tell Wanda and Jack the real reason he was coming was because he didn't have a valid reason -- his warlord bonus wasn't actually necessary as long as Jack was there; he was mostly coming for personal reasons, which would have been embarrassing to admit. Whatever the reason, Parson's unwillingness to say that he was just coming for the bonus ultimately got Jack killed, Ossamer turned, and a whole lot of other people killed, too, while leaving Parson stuck in his current predicament.)

Anyway, moving on: Sylvia burning everything. This is partially Wanda's fault for leaving her in charge, but Parson is still the ultimate top commander, and it was his job to give sane orders that would prevent something like this. If he'd paid more attention to the mental state of his commanders, Sylvia wouldn't have been in charge in the first place or could have had tighter orders to keep her from doing something like that.

Jack's death. Again, Parson knows what Jack is and isn't good at; he should have known better than to try and use Jack, a valuable caster, as a warlord. Jack's death is directly attributable to the fact that he was doing something he wasn't good at, which was the direct result of Parson giving him bad orders.

Were all of these directly Parson's fault? No, aside from his decision to enter Jetstone. But he's the top commander, and he could have avoided all of them if he thought ahead, understood his people better, and gave them more careful orders. He's the guy in charge, so the buck ultimately stops with him.

Parson has screwed up here. A lot. Not all of the things Stanley is bringing up are fair (the obscene expense of the Food Fight wasn't really Parson's fault, and Stanley indicated earlier that he does know this), but a lot of it is.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 107

Postby Kreistor » Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:38 am

Aquillion wrote:Were all of these directly Parson's fault? No, aside from his decision to enter Jetstone. But he's the top commander, and he could have avoided all of them if he thought ahead, understood his people better, and gave them more careful orders. He's the guy in charge, so the buck ultimately stops with him.

Parson has screwed up here. A lot. Not all of the things Stanley is bringing up are fair (the obscene expense of the Food Fight wasn't really Parson's fault, and Stanley indicated earlier that he does know this), but a lot of it is.


There is a conflict between free will and hierarchical command structures. On the one hand, you want orders to be obeyed. On the other, you want local commanders to be able to solve problems on their own. The more capably independent a subordinate is, the more likely it is they'll make a mistake.

parson has had no time to establish dominance or set the level of permissiveness of freedom vs. adherence to command. Only minutes. Ansom has set the level he wanted, under the dominance of Wanda.

1) Faulting Parson for Wanda's actions is myopic. Wanda has been functional Chief Warlord since the end of Book 1, because she has had dominance over the technical CW. Her mistakes are laid at her feet, and hers alone. This can be seen in Wanda giving orders to Sylvia to down tower.

2) Jack's suggestion to down Tower was based on his participation in Parson's war games. Parson inspired creative thinking. Jack just didn't think it all through.

What you are truly blaming Parson for was his choice to not fight for the CW title in the first place. While Ansom technically had it, Wanda ruled as CW, not Ansom. That isn't going to change in a few minutes. That takes Turns to overcome.

No, Ansom takes the majority of fault as the Starting CW. Parson is trying to save a desperately failing situation, and does not take responsibility for problems due to the changeover of command.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 107

Postby effataigus » Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:53 am

As long as we're mucking about in the past...

I'm remembering back to when Ossomer was suggesting that Wanda fly in under veil and kill Jillian (we'd be looking at a very different story if she had). What I'm curious about is how that conversation would have gone if it had been Ansom riding by Wanda instead of Ossomer. Would he have suggested the tactic?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 107

Postby Aquillion » Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:59 am

Kreistor wrote:There is a conflict between free will and hierarchical command structures. On the one hand, you want orders to be obeyed. On the other, you want local commanders to be able to solve problems on their own. The more capably independent a subordinate is, the more likely it is they'll make a mistake.

parson has had no time to establish dominance or set the level of permissiveness of freedom vs. adherence to command. Only minutes. Ansom has set the level he wanted, under the dominance of Wanda.

1) Faulting Parson for Wanda's actions is myopic. Wanda has been functional Chief Warlord since the end of Book 1, because she has had dominance over the technical CW. Her mistakes are laid at her feet, and hers alone. This can be seen in Wanda giving orders to Sylvia to down tower.

2) Jack's suggestion to down Tower was based on his participation in Parson's war games. Parson inspired creative thinking. Jack just didn't think it all through.

What you are truly blaming Parson for was his choice to not fight for the CW title in the first place. While Ansom technically had it, Wanda ruled as CW, not Ansom. That isn't going to change in a few minutes. That takes Turns to overcome.

No, Ansom takes the majority of fault as the Starting CW. Parson is trying to save a desperately failing situation, and does not take responsibility for problems due to the changeover of command.
Some of that, maybe.

But Parson's decision to move to Jetstone himself is entirely his fault. It's -- fundamentally -- selfish, in that he's putting his personal emotional needs above the good of his side and the lives of the people under his command. (Yes, he told Maggie it was for the bonus, but I think it's been made fairly clear that it had a lot more to do with his emotional need to put himself at risk.)

And his failure to properly explain this plan and that reasoning to Wanda and Jack was the reason they moved to the Magic Kingdom. They believed he had some secret plan he needed to discuss with them, and he allowed them to believe that. That's entirely his fault, too. If he'd communicated better, Wanda would have stayed in Jetstone and he probably wouldn't have even been needed there.

Finally, his decision to use Jack as a warlord is somewhat more understandable, since he had few resources and very little time to think (and isn't very experienced as a warlord himself), but it was still basically his mistake.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 107

Postby bladestorm » Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:35 pm

Parson's biggest mistake in this page was completely forgetting how to handle Stanley. Parson came up with a plan and told Stanley to do something. When Stanley told him "no", Parson responded by challenging Stanley's dominance by arguing that "you will if you want your chief warlord to live". This is not how Wanda taught him how to handle the Tool. It needed to be Stanley's idea to move the capitol.

"What in the Titan's turd stains have you been doing all this time?"
"Killing kings, claiming Spacerock, that sort of stuff. I gotta tell you, this place is so much better than GK, even after we rebuilt it. You would have liked having a place like this as your Capital Site. Too bad it's in inferno right now and about to become one big ash hex. I think you would have liked this statue of you wielding the Hammer in the center of the main quad. Plus, it would just be a complete slap in the face of all of Jetstone if you made this your capital... easy access to all of their cities by dwagon, but at least two turns for any of their forces."
"What? No way, I want that as my capital. I'm changing it now. You get turdboy, Slapstick or whatever his name is, in there to put that inferno out. And clean that place up. I'll be there at the start of next turn. Besides, most of my dwagons are there anyway."
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Re: Book 2 – Page 107

Postby Kreistor » Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:26 pm

bladestorm wrote:Parson's biggest mistake in this page was completely forgetting how to handle Stanley. Parson came up with a plan and told Stanley to do something. When Stanley told him "no", Parson responded by challenging Stanley's dominance by arguing that "you will if you want your chief warlord to live". This is not how Wanda taught him how to handle the Tool. It needed to be Stanley's idea to move the capitol.


Agreed in full. Parson is panicking, but that's not excuse.

I think it's a meta-thing for Rob. He knows Parson needs to do it this way, but he needs to show Charlie stomping in fast on the attempt. He needed Parson to get the basics through first, so he handed parson the stupid ball.

Aquillon wrote:But Parson's decision to move to Jetstone himself is entirely his fault. It's -- fundamentally -- selfish, in that he's putting his personal emotional needs above the good of his side and the lives of the people under his command.


Had he not involved himself, Wanda, Ansom, and Jack would all be trapped and soon dead. The Arkenpliers lost. RCC2 victorious and headed for GK.

I can't agree that he has made a mistake, except for his own personal risk of death. From Stanley's perspective, he has lost much, but he still has Wanda and her Tool. Parson trading himself for that is probably worth it, even if he distrusts her. Without Parson, it would have been total annihilation, and a fully functional enemy force to attack back with. At worst, Parson has bought time for Wanda and Stanley to rebuild while the RCC rebuilds.

From a personal survival standpoint, Parson made a mistake. From a military standpoint, he won a limited victory already. And it is not yet over.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 107

Postby oslecamo2_temp » Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:31 pm

Kreistor wrote:
Had he not involved himself, Wanda, Ansom, and Jack would all be trapped and soon dead. The Arkenpliers lost. RCC2 victorious and headed for GK.

I can't agree that he has made a mistake, except for his own personal risk of death. From Stanley's perspective, he has lost much, but he still has Wanda and her Tool. Parson trading himself for that is probably worth it, even if he distrusts her. Without Parson, it would have been total annihilation, and a fully functional enemy force to attack back with. At worst, Parson has bought time for Wanda and Stanley to rebuild while the RCC rebuilds.

Completely untrue. The arkenpliers, Wanda and Jack were all rescuable whitout Hamster ever needing to enter the Magic Kingdom and geting himself in a giant fire. And Sylvia was already dead set on burning Jetstone to the ground taking a good chunk of Jetstone's army down with it.

Everything that Hamster needed to do to save the day, he could do trough thinkmancy.

And he did it to a point. Food fight, Wanda and Jack get to the portal room, the day was saved at that point.

From there, the rest of GK's army could fight-and perhaps even win, with Hamster carefully coordinating GK's forces at distance trough thinkmancy.

Kreistor wrote:From a personal survival standpoint, Parson made a mistake. From a military standpoint, he won a limited victory already. And it is not yet over.


He had already won a limited victory before exiting GK. But ever since he entered the magic kingdom, he's just been losing. And he can only lose more now.

Killed Slatley's clone? Big deal, would've disapeared by itself next turn.

Meanwhile he pissed off at least half the Magic Kindom, got Jack killed by keeping him in the frontline despite being out of juice, and now Stanley will be forced to move the capital to a place he can't safely reach just to save Hamster's fat ass, which will result in a whole new set of problems for plenty of time.

All because Hamster suddenly changed from "Carefully analyze the situation and abuse the hell out of every rule I can to gain every advantage possible while preserving our key units" to "Screw tactics, just charge in zerg rush kekeke!"
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Re: Book 2 – Page 107

Postby Kreistor » Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:14 pm

oslecamo2_temp wrote:Completely untrue. The arkenpliers, Wanda and Jack were all rescuable whitout Hamster ever needing to enter the Magic Kingdom and geting himself in a giant fire.


You presume that Inferno was Sylvia's "accident". Do not forget that the Arkendish has the strongest Thinkamancy in the world, and Thinkamancy can sway people's choices. Inferno may have been Charlie's back-up plan in case Jillian failed or betrayed him. Even if she was stuck in Airspace without Food Fight, Inferno would kill Wanda.

Charlie, knowing the Arkenpliers were stuck with Wanda, could make the same choices and proposals to Slately, arrange the same deal, and merely target Wanda instead of Parson. She may in fact have been the target, and he only switched targets and delayed Inferno when he intercepted the Thinkagram where Parson revealed his entire plan.

The current situation, Inferno in Jetstone, does not require the presence of Red Dwagons or Sylvia's delusions. All it takes is the will to light the city on fire.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 107

Postby Oberon » Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:19 pm

Aquillion wrote:And Wanda entered the portal entirely because Parson was unclear about the plans -- she thought she had to speak with him. All Parson had to do to avoid this was say "STAY THERE NO MATTER WHAT, I'M JUST COMING TO BRING MY WARLORD BONUS."
No competent leader is ever going to give such an order unless it is for a very specific and special purpose, such as the deliberate sacrifice of some part of an army to save the majority part. i.e. "You're to hold this position at all costs until the 5th army units cross this bridge. No relief will be assigned to your forces." The commander given such an order knows exactly what is going on, and what he is being asked to do, and he does his duty despite his desire to protect the lives of the men under his command.

That was not the case at all, and so Parson can easily be forgiven from not issuing the exact kind of micro-managing, absolutist order that you suggested.

I take it you have neither served in the military in any command capacity nor studied military history. Or you would not have made such a statement.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 107

Postby oslecamo2_temp » Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:37 pm

Kreistor wrote:
oslecamo2_temp wrote:Completely untrue. The arkenpliers, Wanda and Jack were all rescuable whitout Hamster ever needing to enter the Magic Kingdom and geting himself in a giant fire.


You presume that Inferno was Sylvia's "accident". Do not forget that the Arkendish has the strongest Thinkamancy in the world, and Thinkamancy can sway people's choices. Inferno may have been Charlie's back-up plan in case Jillian failed or betrayed him. Even if she was stuck in Airspace without Food Fight, Inferno would kill Wanda.

Charlie, knowing the Arkenpliers were stuck with Wanda, could make the same choices and proposals to Slately, arrange the same deal, and merely target Wanda instead of Parson. She may in fact have been the target, and he only switched targets and delayed Inferno when he intercepted the Thinkagram where Parson revealed his entire plan.

The current situation, Inferno in Jetstone, does not require the presence of Red Dwagons or Sylvia's delusions. All it takes is the will to light the city on fire.


It's irrelevant if Sylvia was delusional or mind-controled by mysterious powers.

Wanda, the arkenpliers and Jack all made the way to the Magic Kingdom, from where they could return to the safety of GK. There was even Hamster right in front of them that could've just ordered "Hey, you guys are safe after all, now let's all go back to our capital shall we?"

Instead, Hamster charges inside a burning city and lets juiceless Jack follow him, all just for killing a clone that would've died by itself at next dawn.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 107

Postby Cnor » Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:38 pm

oslecamo2_temp wrote:From there, the rest of GK's army could fight-and perhaps even win, with Hamster carefully coordinating GK's forces at distance trough thinkmancy.


Not really. Even with the Archons to help take up some of the strain - and remember, most of them were killed by the Hatamancy trap and the air assault - Maggie was running low on juice. That kind of long-term, two-way, communication would have been impossible for her to maintain. There's a good chance she ran out of juice just on that one call from Stanley, much less having to keep a Thinkagram open to constantly relay battle plans and get intel.

Oberon wrote:No competent leader is ever going to give such an order unless it is for a very specific and special purpose, such as the deliberate sacrifice of some part of an army to save the majority part. i.e. "You're to hold this position at all costs until the 5th army units cross this bridge. No relief will be assigned to your forces." The commander given such an order knows exactly what is going on, and what he is being asked to do, and he does his duty despite his desire to protect the lives of the men under his command.

That was not the case at all, and so Parson can easily be forgiven from not issuing the exact kind of micro-managing, absolutist order that you suggested.

I take it you have neither served in the military in any command capacity nor studied military history. Or you would not have made such a statement.


Indeed. Anything with no flexibility in it, especially in a setting where the units under one's command quite possibly cannot disobey, even if they must, is generally best avoided. That kind of order would have left Wanda and Jack - two of Gobwin Knob's most important units, especially Wanda, since she's quite possibly the only thing keeping a great deal of their forces, including many of their warlords, alive - trapped in the Portal Chamber if, for instance, Ace had gone down there to get rid of them rather than going after Cubbins. They were both out of juice, and had only Antium down there to stack with. Against a full stack of Heavies with a hefty bonus from a Caster of the right type, they'd have been toast, which would quite likely have meant that Jetstone would actually have won.

Now, to be fair, they might have been able to escape. Duty could have allowed that. It would be in the best interests of Gobwin Knob for them to flee, after all. But still, that sort of thing is a horrible risk to take.

(Side-note - pretty sure that Trammenis and Clone!Slately, as Chief Warlord and Ruler, should have been aware that Wanda and Jack, supported only by Antium, were down there, seeing as I seem to recall that the disposition of enemy units in the Garrison is known to at least those two. Why didn't one of them order Ace down to kill Wanda, Jack, and Antium? The worst case would be that Wanda and Jack would flee through the portal, thereby depriving all of the Decrypted in the city of Wanda's bonus, and the best case would be that almost the entire Gobwin Knob army, in the area and elsewhere, would die with Wanda, so I'm not really seeing a downside, other than, potentially, losing Cubbins, which isn't that bad in comparison to maybe actually winning the whole battle...)

oslecamo2_temp wrote:Instead, Hamster charges inside a burning city and lets juiceless Jack follow him, all just for killing a clone that would've died by itself at next dawn.


Parson was in the Magic Kingdom already when the city was set on fire. He did not know the city was burning.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 107

Postby Glome » Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:46 pm

oslecamo2_temp wrote:It's irrelevant if Sylvia was delusional or mind-controled by mysterious powers.

Wanda, the arkenpliers and Jack all made the way to the Magic Kingdom, from where they could return to the safety of GK. There was even Hamster right in front of them that could've just ordered "Hey, you guys are safe after all, now let's all go back to our capital shall we?"

Instead, Hamster charges inside a burning city and lets juiceless Jack follow him, all just for killing a clone that would've died by itself at next dawn.


Hamster knew none of that when he went into Jetstone, and he certainly didn't order or even know Jack was going to follow him. If you are going to criticize Parson, it should be on him charging into what he knew what was a trap with just the assurance of a vague prediction of eventually winning from Marie. At the very least he could have gotten a status update of the situation in Jetstone from Maggie, and with that known enough to bring Sizemore with him.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 107

Postby coyotenose » Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:54 pm

thegoofromspace wrote:I'm not saying Parson will start a new side, claim Spacerock for it, and then flee to the Magic Kingdom...

But he should totally name the city Hamsterdam if he does.


The drink was literally touching my lips when I read that. So close to disaster.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 107

Postby Oberon » Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:03 pm

oslecamo2_temp wrote:Instead, Hamster charges inside a burning city and lets juiceless Jack follow him, all just for killing a clone that would've died by itself at next dawn.
Please at least try to be fair when arguing your point. You don't do your credibility any favors by listing a bunch of irrelevant bullshit and expecting people to believe it.

Charges inside a burning city - As mentioned above, he didn't know the city was on fire and no one told him.
Lets juiceless Jack follow him - Oh, really? Parson fully expected to go through the portal alone, since those were the terms the Idiot Minds Who Change Their Minds set down. Jack pulled whatever trick (which I suppose we will now never know) he pulled to either get into or remain in Spacerock all on his lonesome.
All just for killing a clone that would've died by itself at next dawn - No one on the GK side knew Clonely was a clone, much less Parson.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 107

Postby mortissimus » Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:07 pm

Cnor wrote:(Side-note - pretty sure that Trammenis and Clone!Slately, as Chief Warlord and Ruler, should have been aware that Wanda and Jack, supported only by Antium, were down there, seeing as I seem to recall that the disposition of enemy units in the Garrison is known to at least those two.


I don't think so. Parson was surprised when the wienerrammer charged in during TbfGK. Wanda was reported to see her units - but no mention of the hostile ones - as lights during her brief stay as ruler and owner of a Capitol.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 107

Postby oslecamo2_temp » Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:08 pm

Cnor wrote:Parson was in the Magic Kingdom already when the city was set on fire. He did not know the city was burning.


Glome wrote:Hamster knew none of that when he went into Jetstone, and he certainly didn't order or even know Jack was going to follow him. If you are going to criticize Parson, it should be on him charging into what he knew what was a trap with just the assurance of a vague prediction of eventually winning from Marie. At the very least he could have gotten a status update of the situation in Jetstone from Maggie, and with that known enough to bring Sizemore with him.


Oberon wrote:Please at least try to be fair when arguing your point. You don't do your credibility any favors by listing a bunch of irrelevant bullshit and expecting people to believe it.

Charges inside a burning city - As mentioned above, he didn't know the city was on fire and no one told him.

You're just supporting my point there. Hamster is charging in blindly into enemy territorry, when he could've spent half a minute asking Wanda and Jack for a report on Jetstone's situation. This is specially agravating considering that Hamster himself had emphasized at the start of book 2 that one does not simply charge blindly into enemy territory.

Oberon wrote:Lets juiceless Jack follow him - Oh, really? Parson fully expected to go through the portal alone, since those were the terms the Idiot Minds Who Change Their Minds set down. Jack pulled whatever trick (which I suppose we will now never know) he pulled to either get into or remain in Spacerock all on his lonesome.

Indeed Titans forbid Hamster, Chief Warlord of Gobwin Knob, to give orders to his subordinates to ensure they comply with an agreement.

Or to ask said subordinates for battle reports.

Oberon wrote:All just for killing a clone that would've died by itself at next dawn - No one on the GK side knew Clonely was a clone, much less Parson.


There were two Slatleys. One died and left a body. Thus the other is a clone. Even Trems "charge into the purple dwagons line of fire!" knew that.

Or what, you're gonna claim nobody among GK's ground forces saw the huge battle in the sky? Or the big red body hanging down from a ceiling?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 107

Postby Cnor » Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:37 pm

oslecamo2_temp wrote:You're just supporting my point there. Hamster is charging in blindly into enemy territorry, when he could've spent half a minute asking Wanda and Jack for a report on Jetstone's situation. This is specially agravating considering that Hamster himself had emphasized at the start of book 2 that one does not simply charge blindly into enemy territory.


*Headdesk*

And he was supposed to ask this how when he was in the Magic Kingdom already, and thus both he and Maggie were engaged with many, many, other things at the time the fire started, and it only went to Inferno after he stepped through the portal?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 107

Postby Doctor Foreman » Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:46 pm

oslecamo2_temp wrote:You're just supporting my point there. Hamster is charging in blindly into enemy territorry, when he could've spent half a minute asking Wanda and Jack for a report on Jetstone's situation.

He may have, and Jack and Wanda may have told him. We don't need the webcomic to repeat that for us. In any case neither Jack nor Wanda knew the city was on fire, and you may be overestimating the amount of time they spent together before Parson went through.

oslecamo2_temp wrote:Indeed Titans forbid Hamster, Chief Warlord of Gobwin Knob, to give orders to his subordinates to ensure they comply with an agreement.

Parson didn't know Jack would able to cross the portal with him.

Or what, you're gonna claim nobody among GK's ground forces saw the huge battle in the sky? Or the big red body hanging down from a ceiling?

- The King's body is by no stretch of the imagination "big".
- It's not hanging from a ceiling, it's perched on top of a roof. All flying GK units with Language were dusted or captured during or shortly after Slately's demise, and GK units were watching from the ground and from a distance. It's conceivable that they didn't see the body or didn't recognize it.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 107

Postby ftl » Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:56 pm

Nobody in GK knew exactly what happened with the air battle, since they lost it; all the units there were captured and dusted. One king came in the battle and one came out alive - I doubt anybody even considered that he could have been cloned and had the clone die. And the body certainl isn't a particularly noticeable body, it's stuck on a roof somewhere...
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