Book 2 – Page 106

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Re: Book 2 – Page 106

Postby mroozee » Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:24 pm

The most popular solutions seem to be:
1. Change the capital to Spacerock and flee to the Magic Kingdom
2. Change the capital to Spacerock and let Sizemore put out the inferno
3. Upgrade Spacerock
4. Raze Spacerock
5. Deus ex Machina

Some other solutions (have no idea if they would work or not):
1. Reds are immune to fire. A ring of reds might protect an area from fire.
2. Upgrade units to get the same fire immunity special as Reds.
3. Have Wanda (or others) summon Parson to the MK (if she can pull him from Stupid World there must be some way to do it within Erfworld).
4. Force fate's hand; that is, don't do anything/much and let Fate do the heavy lifting (LHPG may not like the results).
5. Negotiate a treaty with someone who can reach Spacerock and flee to safety (like the Eagles in LOTR... BTW isn't there a jetpack or a flying carpet lying around?).
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Re: Book 2 – Page 106

Postby WarGiver » Mon Apr 15, 2013 8:36 pm

you forgot turnamancy
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Re: Book 2 – Page 106

Postby teratorn » Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:55 pm

What puzzles me is that a capital apparently is only meaningful as the site of a portal, at least if the side has a few more potential capital cities. Trammenis was planning to flee even without changing capitals, so losing the capital wasn't more relevant to the survival of the side than losing any other high level city. I'd expect some strong penalty for losing the capital.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 106

Postby Chit Rule Railroad » Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:29 pm

teratorn wrote:What puzzles me is that a capital apparently is only meaningful as the site of a portal, at least if the side has a few more potential capital cities. Trammenis was planning to flee even without changing capitals, so losing the capital wasn't more relevant to the survival of the side than losing any other high level city. I'd expect some strong penalty for losing the capital.

When you lose a capital to another side, you probably lose whatever schmuckers were in the treasury, but Jetstone was broke anyway. You also lose whatever Royals were in your production queue (many speculate that Royals can only pop in the capital), with an Heir being the worst case scenario. I guess Trammenis thought a longshot chance of keeping the Heir was worth more than the pittance left in the treasury - assuming changing the capital lets you transfer the funds.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 106

Postby eminence_grise » Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:28 pm

My quatloo is on Parson forming a new side, and allying with Stanley. The possibility of this has been foreshadowed, in my opinion, by two things:

1) Goblin Knob reaching the diminishing-returns point on city count
2) The idea of spinning off new sides, as mentioned in First Intermission 40

If Parson did this, it would create a portal at Spacerock since it would now be Parson's capital. If Parson allied with Stanley, then Sizemore and Wanda could come through the portal and patch things up as allied casters.

I don't quite know how this would mesh with Parson's "Control-Z" comment. My long-shot bet there is that the amulet that Parson is wearing is an Amulet of Power (get it?), which has a "suspend" function, if it's compatible with the ATX specification. :)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 106

Postby Kreistor » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:30 am

drachefly wrote:Kriestor, if you want to lay it out at, say, 5:1, depending on the wording, I might take the long end of that. Some sort of capital switching gimmickery is not THAT unlikely.


drach, I learned my lesson long ago. Nights of poker where I simply sat back and folded out to see hands showed me the world stacks the odds against me. With Stud poker, and 8 people, you should have 1/8th of the best hands. I went 40 hands straight one night without the top cards. Yeah, it happens to everyone sometimes: statistically improbable is not statistically impossible. It just happens to me consistently, so I simply don't bet anymore.

So, my actual prediction were I to bet on capital switch is that Rob has secret rules we don't yet know about. since it's his standard trick for making Parson appear like a brilliant genius. And my prediction, if I were to bet on new rules, is that he'd capital switch. Whatever I bet on, it wouldn't happen. So I'm betting on neither, selecting Capital Switch as the only possible solution without a rules clarification, and moving on.

(It even works that way if I randomly select my bet. I tested that, too. Whatever I bet on, that's not going to happen.)
http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/TBFGK_1 Here you can find all comic pages written as text for convenient quoting.

http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/Erfworld_Mechanics The starting page for accessing all known Erfworld "rules".
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Re: Book 2 – Page 106

Postby effataigus » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:50 am

Kriestor, this is kinda awesome. I remember a discussion earlier in which someone pointed out that you often portray discussions as though the other people involved are out to get you. Here however, you seem to be suggesting that even purely random events are out to get you. This sounds like a very stressful world view.

Now, it would seem preferable to me to think that a person is out to get me rather than the very laws of the universe, so I propose a solution: Lary Von Hemingway. He's a very powerful sorcerer and a childhood friend of mine. As it turns out, HE is out to get you. His primary mode of antagonism is manipulating fate. Next time you need something to blame a negative result on, remember him.

Lary has been a real jerk ever since he got his powers.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 106

Postby drachefly » Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:00 am

Kriestor, I meant short end. You can take the 'it's not happening this way' side at those odds. Sorry.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 106

Postby Zippy the Squirrel » Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:20 am

bladestorm wrote:
Zippy the Squirrel wrote:I just remembered, in one of the recent text updates, Jillian's forces don't capture the city they're in until after they claim the incapacitated caster as a prisoner. Nobody's done that for Ace, so he's very definitely dead now.

I thought they had claimed the caster as a prisoner, and then the Overlady left the garrison into the airspace. I'll have to go back and re-read that passage again to determine the order of events. I was also under the impression that the units Parson was commanding had extensive battlefield experience and would know to capture the incapacitated caster, skipping right past the mournful wailing and lamenting, and not needing to be verbally ordered to do so.



Ah, yes, you're right. Here is the relevant portion of the text:

"Olive had left the garrison. That was the only explanation. After Jillian destroyed the golems, Orwell must have been the only Haffaton unit in Efbaum’s garrison. Therefore, when the Overlady fled to the airspace, the city fell to Faq."

Oh! But, I also just remembered typing this sentence, Cubbins was also preventing capture of the City, and he's incapacitated. I was also under the impression that only Parson and Antium survived the collapse, and even so there hasn't been any time for a savvy GK unit to run around claiming KO'd enemies as prisoners. I'm still strongly leaning towards "Ace is dead."
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Re: Book 2 – Page 106

Postby pseudoboo » Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:52 am

why does everybody assume stately is telling the truth? he was all on about "the currency of kings" earlier
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Re: Book 2 – Page 106

Postby Aquillion » Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:22 pm

pseudoboo wrote:why does everybody assume stately is telling the truth? he was all on about "the currency of kings" earlier
Telling the truth about what?

The garrison is an inferno; this seems to be something that anyone can tell just by looking at it. (And in any case, Parson controls the city now, so he'd know for sure if that was required to tell.)

We know why he changed the capital (and we know he wasn't lying), because we saw the plan explained to him.

What else did he say?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 106

Postby Zippy the Squirrel » Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:20 pm

Could it be the end-turn spell that Parson hopes to Undo, perhaps?

Wanda is presented as a multi- use/class caster, maybe linking her up with Maggie and/or one or two of the Great Minds can yield results?

Then Parson and Antium can both grab a dead caster and try to fly out of the city with the dwagons. The page with the Inferno details mentions a damage-taken penalty by units attempting to flee an inferno, would it apply to fly-- oh wait, Parson can't fly. Well, he could still try to run out of the city while Antium loads up the dwagons.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 106

Postby Oberon » Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:27 pm

Kreistor wrote:As for betting, it's a mugs game. You're not offering any odds. I get one possible result ("capital switch") while you get everything else. Stupid bet, even at 4:1. Rob has hit us so many times with last minute rules clarifications, it's simply dumb to think we know everything. Given current rules, yes, high probability of a capital switch. Next comic could give us different rules, and give us a dozen other possible solutions. I just ain't that dumb, given Rob's historical methods.
You're always welcome to condition your bet. Accept it under the current rules, and disqualify it if rules which apply to the situation you're betting on change. That's quite fair. And, countering a bet offer with an odds offer is also quite fair.
Kreistor wrote:drach, I learned my lesson long ago. Nights of poker where I simply sat back and folded out to see hands showed me the world stacks the odds against me. With Stud poker, and 8 people, you should have 1/8th of the best hands. I went 40 hands straight one night without the top cards. Yeah, it happens to everyone sometimes: statistically improbable is not statistically impossible. It just happens to me consistently, so I simply don't bet anymore.
Kreistor, you're betting quatloos. A meaningless currency. Please don't seek refuge by claiming that you've lost real money too many times at poker to risk betting a valueless currency. Sounds kinda pussy.
How using capslock wins arguments:
Zeroberon wrote:So we know with 100% certainty that THIS IS HOW TRI-LINKS WORK, PERIOD END OF STORY.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 106

Postby allaces14400 » Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:14 pm

WarGiver wrote:you forgot turnamancy


Ooh! Good one! I never would have thought of that!
You lucky Tool!
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Re: Book 2 – Page 106

Postby Werebiscuit » Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:31 am

Doctor Foreman wrote:
elecampane wrote:
Doctor Foreman wrote:At the extremely high risk of missing some form of sarcasm, facetiousness, or japery...that is his body.

But...
Doesn't purple dwagon's left forepaw rests on the same stone that covers Jack from us? Why is it so much smaller than Jack's hand? And why Bogroll's statue seems to be closer, but appears to be only slightly bigger than lying Jack?
I don't insist that I'm right and anyway Jack's body there is far more probable than a statue, but all we can see of it is in same shades of gray and black as Bogroll, and size really seems off to me.


I forgot to mention: if the purple dwagon was going to rub its head on Jack affectionately, it would choose his body and not a statue.

Regarding the Bogroll statue, it's either smaller than we might think or the perspective in the picture is a little messy. Which...I think is likely.

But if Dwagon is rubbing its head it means there's no perspective here, the objects are on the same distance from the viewer, and the hand is of the size with dwagon's head. I thought that maybe dwagon's just peering at Jack from the distance and it only appears that it rests his head on Jack's hand, but then forepaw position makes little sense.
I'll stop arguing now, because it probably really just strange perspective, and we'll know for sure in further updates anyway.

It's all a trick of perspective
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Re: Book 2 – Page 106

Postby Morni » Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:57 am

Parson forces Antium leave GK and creates a new side. Parson then gives Spacerock to Antium.

Antium now has a capitol with a portal. Parson walks out.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 106

Postby Chit Rule Railroad » Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:10 pm

Morni wrote:Parson forces Antium leave GK and creates a new side. Parson then gives Spacerock to Antium.

Antium now has a capitol with a portal. Parson walks out.

Hmm, while King(?) Antium might not normally be inclined to solo a magic item-laden heavy warlord who is trying to escape, he might be inclined to choose suicide over burning up in an inferno. If Antium croaked or left the garrison before Parson could reach the portal, Parson would be trapped again.

One option would be to pink him up, leave the garrison, and come back in.

A more interesting option would be to negotiate an alliance on the terms that Sizemore comes in to put out the inferno. Wanda comes in, too, and now Antium is surrounded by GK troops and is persuaded by his mistress to turn back to GK, or alternately is persuaded to make the alliance a deep and long-term one.

Come to think of it, if Spacerock the Side (consisting of decrypted Antium sitting in a level 1 city) tried to ally with Jetstone, Jetstone would probably be inclined to capture him and take Spacerock back by force. An alliance with GK would be Spacerock the Side's best chance of continuing to exist, even setting aside the immediate threat from GK.


It would be very interesting to see Antium as a Ruler and quasi-equal to Wanda. They seem potentially compatible, in fact...

It would also be entertaining to see Royal minds blown by a decrypted unit starting a Royal Side, aligned with GK, that can pop visibly Royal units (assuming that shows up in a stat block).
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Re: Book 2 – Page 106

Postby Oberon » Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:06 am

teratorn wrote:What puzzles me is that a capital apparently is only meaningful as the site of a portal, at least if the side has a few more potential capital cities. Trammenis was planning to flee even without changing capitals, so losing the capital wasn't more relevant to the survival of the side than losing any other high level city. I'd expect some strong penalty for losing the capital.
We've been over this many times.

With what we know of the rules so far, there was absolutely zero reason for Clonely to make his last, desperate attempt to get to the throne in order to trap Parson. It makes zero sense. Parson was going to do it to himself anyway. Or Clonely could have simply disbanded the unconscious Cubbins to cede control of the city to GK. Surely if it was so important to the future of Jetstone the disbanding would have been seen as being justified, that plus the fact that he died anyway.

I hope that future comics add some sense to this apparent gaping plot hole.

That, and why Issac changed his mind about allowing Parson/GK to violate the previously oh-so-inviolate neutrality of the MK. Because "Maggie repeated her same argument again, only louder" doesn't cut it, story-wise or logic-wise.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 106

Postby Doctor Foreman » Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:25 am

Oberon wrote:That, and why Issac changed his mind about allowing Parson/GK to violate the previously oh-so-inviolate neutrality of the MK. Because "Maggie repeated her same argument again, only louder" doesn't cut it, story-wise or logic-wise.


I don't understand. Maggie's initial argument was that Parson could enact some brilliant battle plan to save the day. Her second and last argument was that Parson needed to experience war personally to become a more complete warlord. Which bit did she repeat?
"If you leave out important things or events that you know about, the story is strengthened. If you leave or skip something because you do not know it, the story will be worthless." - Hemingway
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