Book 2 – Page 102

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Re: Book 2 – Page 102

Postby nargbop » Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:33 am

+1 fish Charlie.
More seriously,the idea of a doppelganger Jack is an interesting one. Not one from outside Gobwin Knob, but instead it's Wanda.

Question to validate that idea : Does a Croakamancer's bonus extend only to units in her own stack, or does it extend out like the Chief Warlord's? If the latter, all Decrypted in Spacerock would immediately notice. If the former, then Jack and Wanda have been performing a superb shell game since Ossomer's defection.

Wanda has juice! And non-Foolamancy spells!

Edit : Nope. http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/ ... al_Bonuses
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Re: Book 2 – Page 102

Postby joosy » Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:53 am

nargbop wrote:+1 fish Charlie.
More seriously,the idea of a doppelganger Jack is an interesting one. Not one from outside Gobwin Knob, but instead it's Wanda.

Question to validate that idea : Does a Croakamancer's bonus extend only to units in her own stack, or does it extend out like the Chief Warlord's? If the latter, all Decrypted in Spacerock would immediately notice. If the former, then Jack and Wanda have been performing a superb shell game since Ossomer's defection.

Wanda has juice! And non-Foolamancy spells!

Edit : Nope. http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/ ... al_Bonuses


Information on Wanda's bonus to Decrypted can be found here:
http://www.erfworld.com/summer-update-2009-archive/?px=%2FE033_KavinScalf_AnsomWanda.jpg

Once Wanda fell into the garrison, all decrypted in the airspace (archons, Ossomer) lost a lot of their bonus to her (from +4 to +1). Once she entered the Magic Kingdom, the Decrypted in the garrison lost most of their bonus as well (from +4 to +1). That is assuming that hex only refers to hexes you control and that the city zones operate as hexes for opposing/unaligned forces for bonuses as well. Regardless, once Wanda stepped through the portal, all Decrypted bonuses in Spacerock were now just +1. Parson's bonus is only +1 for all on his side and only +2 for those in his hex. Once he stepped into Spacerock, Sylvia's bonus went up by one which was apparently enough of a difference to help her attack against the cloth golems.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 102

Postby Dancing Cthulhu » Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:52 am

teratorn wrote:
Dancing Cthulhu wrote:General 1: I've got a cunning plan! We pack all our tanks with explosives, drive them into the enemy capital and detonate them!


Strawman.


Sorry, I misread. I thought you were getting at a big attack of all the greens (should have said "all our type X tanks"), and defenses for them. My mistake. It is a good idea all up, I just didn't really see it as functional considering the circumstances both sides were in at the time.

The dwagons had no problem reaching the hex,


The siege hex/es Parson wanted to attack at least. The RCC column was stretched over multiple hexes. GK probably knew which one had command, thanks to the table, and the dwagons might have been able to reach it.

Parson didn't ask permission to do siege attack


A hit and run attack where there as a good chance all the forces committed would survive, as opposed to a suicide attack where most/all committed would certainly be lost.

and dwagons were only vulnerable to archery,


And flyers of which the RCC had a handful (including two high level warlords). I think the command hex would probably be one of the most heavily defended against dwagons just because it seems like sound tactics - cornered opponent who you don't rate as a leader with a bunch of strong aerial units? I know I'd be setting up to stop a suicidal dwagon rush decapitation strike on my command.

those needed could be shielded long enough to get the deed done, not all dwagons needed to be sacrifficed.


If it could be cleared. The explosion here didn't destroy an entire hex, (unless we view a city zone as an entire hex in which it came close). It also featured the explosion happening in a bottle - ground level mostly enclosed space with most everyone close to the point of the explosion thanks to the battle. We'd be needed at least the same number of greens, who would need to get close enough to the commanders to have an effect (exploding in the air overhead probably wouldn't do much).

Once the hex was cleaned wanda could be sent there and mass decroak it, and start sweeping unlead hexes with dance-fighting uncroaked.


There was a lot of hexes (I doubt many of them were completely unled), but that might work.

Having said that, looking again at the this late strip, the exploit wouldn't work. The scale of this explosion was only possible because these are decrypted, when they die as a result of their buddies going off they turn into ash and their gas adds to the explosion. A regular dwagon would get parched not releasing its gas to the explosion.


Good catch, I wasn't even thinking about that, just the problems of getting enough greens close enough to the commanders for it to be worth the risk.

With three warlords in the siege attack in book one, there could be at most three explosions much smaller than this one, probably not enough to wipe an entire hex.


And this explosion was apparently significant because it was a bunch of greens together, who then would have set off other greens not as close, in an enclosed space.

bladestorm wrote:Looks more like a pressurized system with a series of eruptions than a single green exploding with the force of a small tactical nuke. Gut the first green to make him rupture, and he blows up in a small explosion that probably only took out the LFN and whatever happened to be within the AoE. In game terms, they probably have mini-hexes the size of the unit, and the eruption caught everything in an adjacent mini-hex. The way Sylvia had them packed in there, bearing down on the dollamancer, it probably took out at least one more cloth golem, two more greens, and a red. Those two green erupted with the same force, setting off a chain reaction. The Friendly Pyre effect looks like a central explosion, surrounded by newer explosions that are in the process of expanding rapidly.

Individually, such an explosion may not be that bad. Cram a bunch into a small area, and you get chunk salsa real quick. It also accounts for the multiple sound effects and explosions all around the garrison and up into the throne room.

As for the burning dwagon parts, not all of the dwagons were decrypted. At least one green on page 96 is depicted as not decrypted. Panels 3, 5 and the one closest to Ace in Panel 9.

So really, not much of a huge change in the rules all of a sudden.

Too bad I let my Tool membership lapse. The panels that got redone may be very interesting.


My reading of it as well.
And so my time with the Tardy Elves draws to a close, and I am let to ponder how the experience will... eh, I'll finish later. No need to rush.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 102

Postby the_tick_rules » Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:07 pm

What's it say as it's fading out on her? Pardon or something?
I would be a procrastinator, but I keep putting it off.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 102

Postby effataigus » Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:07 pm

the_tick_rules wrote:What's it say as it's fading out on her? Pardon or something?
Parch :D
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Re: Book 2 – Page 102

Postby suryasm » Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:01 pm

"That's it? So I win?!"

- I know this is just Sylvia being crazy thinking that suicide-bombing everyone is "winning". But what if - in her own mind - she really DID win? Maybe the thing she was looking to beat was not Jetstone, but the spell which forced her to live in servitude to the Arkenpliers. She was unable to turn like Ossomer, but maybe her crazy behavior was her own subtle rebellion against Fate and Wanda's control, deliberately pushing to see what it takes to find peace.....and finally finding it.

Eh, probably not. But its still a nice idea ;)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 102

Postby Beeskee » Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:22 am

So I'm re-reading the comic

Look at Panel 7 on this one: http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/ ... -08-04.jpg

When you see it...

Spoiler: show
Image


Damnit, Rob... ;)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 102

Postby arin » Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:40 am

effataigus wrote: The first thing out of Jack's, if that is his real name, mouth after coming out of the portal was about missing his and Parson's wargames. I can see how an imposter might know about Jack having been on Jillian's side for awhile, but I'm guessing a doppleganger would need either mind-reading or some next-level foolamancy to know about the time Jack and Parson spent together.


Playing the Devil's Advocate, we know Parson klogged a lot about that period on a tool that Charlie has some access to. I'd say the fact that it was the first thing out of his mouth actually /adds/ some credence to this particular theory. The only thing that makes it unlikely, to me, is that units seem somehow "aware" of when they're stacked together, even probably Parson (note his big grin when Sizemore stacks with him in the MK tunnel), but definitely Antium, and I don't think an imposter would actually be able to stack with non-allied units, even to pull off the subterfuge. But then maybe there's a mancer out there with a special that lets them do that, who knows.

The only thing this thread has really brought out for me is how much we /don't/ know, still, about what it means to live and croak on Erf.

I'm surprised no one's commented on the one thing that's starting to seem really obvious to me, and that's...

Spoiler: show
...that Jojo's "no place like home" spell is Parson's obvious escape route from this city. Xin's going out of her way to make it prominent on his belt, and we know Parson has a history of saying "ah well, nothing to lose" when it comes to situations where he's going to die anyway. So that's my speculation, this situation is going to cause him (and possibly Jack - how interesting would THAT be?) to flee back to our world, and the various mancers involved in the original summoning spell will have to re-craft it to get him back. (Would also help cement for Parson that he's not/wasn't dreaming, something that it's probably VERY important for him to know for sure).
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Re: Book 2 – Page 102

Postby Chit Rule Railroad » Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:14 pm

arin wrote:I'm surprised no one's commented on the one thing that's starting to seem really obvious to me, and that's...

This has been discussed on the Book 0 reaction thread:
ryanroyce wrote:So when Jack casts the Scroll on Parson to get him out of the Inferno, Parson must then find Judy (or her decendent) in Kansas and ask her for the Arkenshoes so he can come back to Erfworld and save the day somehow.

This would also let Parson's old gaming group reappear, which was foretold long, long ago.

My contingent prediction is that if Parson returns to Ohio, he won't attune to the Arkenshoes, but that the Arkenshoes allow a passenger/stack (Parson) to be transported along with the attuned (Judy, who didn't seem very excited about returning to Kansas), just as Jack depicted Stanley & Jack flying with the Arkenhammer. I suspect it would be more useful to the narrative if Parson is dependent on Judy to get around Erfworld quickly than if he attunes to the Arkenshoes himself.

Re the gaming group, I don't think Parson would be able to persuade anyone else to come with him to an alien world of slavery and war.


However, Jack is aware that the destination of the Arkenshoes' "go home" feature is under the influence of the user - once it took Judy to a location in Erfworld, and once to Kansas - and may instruct Parson in using the "go home" scroll to simply return to GK - or maybe the MK.

Good point about the art; Jack is even pointing at the scroll (accidentally) in panel 8.

As much as I would prefer a new, GK-allied Side to be founded to bring in Sizemore, I have to say, "Goodbye, Jack. You will be missed."
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Re: Book 2 – Page 102

Postby name lips » Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:28 pm

I think it's likely that Charlie attempted to mimic the "go home" ability on the ArkenShoes when he helped create the "go home" scroll.

Which means it's quite likely it won't take Parson to Ohio. He doesn't think of Ohio as "home."
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Re: Book 2 – Page 102

Postby Glowface » Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:13 pm

I've just realised: Sylvia Plath dies 50 years ago, today. February 11, 1963.
Talk about going and coming around.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 102

Postby Jreengus » Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:58 pm

Just signed up to say I think I have a way Jack at least could escape the burning city. If Ace is considered outside the garrison and is captured once Parson takes it then Parson can have a thinkagram with Tramennis, they agree on a exchange of sorts; Parson will let Ace live if Tramennis saves Jack. They then do the following:
1. Ace is released and as it is still Jetstone's turn can step outside the city, he then turns to Gobwin Knob to act as a hostage.
2. Jack turns to Jestone. This is the iffy bit, I don't think it's been stated one way or another but if he then gets his move back as it is now his turn he can use it to leave the city and meet up with Tramennis and his casters.
3. At a later date Gobwin Knob and Jestone forces meet under truce (Possibly briefly allied so they can both move at the same time and to prevent hostilities without one side breaking the alliance first.) The two casters then turn back to their original sides.

Of course this plan relies on Tramennis viewing saving Ace as being worth letting Jack live and possibly on getting Stanely to agree. Also there's the possibility Jack turning won't give him back move. Come to think of it 1 is iffy as well I don't know if there is any way to force Ace to turn once he's out of the city, Can Ace even move right now? Ok this plan has a lot more holes in it than I originally thought, I'm still posting it though as it seems kinda clever.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 102

Postby Tesslyn » Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:23 pm

I think the scroll Parson was given will help him find the shoes or even just reveal that he has attempted to use the scroll to leave erfworld. The scroll is the 'test', if he uses it it means he truly wants to leave and in that case Charlie can trust him with the shoes and be rid of him.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 102

Postby drachefly » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:38 am

Jreengus wrote:2. Jack turns to Jestone, this is the iffy bit.


I think they could just capture him...
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Re: Book 2 – Page 102

Postby multilis » Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:21 pm

'As much as I would prefer a new, GK-allied Side to be founded to bring in Sizemore, I have to say, "Goodbye, Jack. You will be missed."'

IMO too early for RIP Jack. Maggie may be at more risk, the suggestion spell is dangerous in several ways.

Many different ways to move plot forward, Parson to survive fire, etc.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 102

Postby Iberean » Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:27 pm

Glowface wrote:I've just realised: Sylvia Plath dies 50 years ago, today. February 11, 1963.
Talk about going and coming around.


I was just about to post on this as I didn't think anyone else had spotted it

"Even amidst fierce flames the golden lotus can be planted"
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Re: Book 2 – Page 102

Postby bladestorm » Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:38 pm

multilis wrote:'As much as I would prefer a new, GK-allied Side to be founded to bring in Sizemore, I have to say, "Goodbye, Jack. You will be missed."'

IMO too early for RIP Jack. Maggie may be at more risk, the suggestion spell is dangerous in several ways.

Many different ways to move plot forward, Parson to survive fire, etc.

There's a thread over at viewtopic.php?f=12&t=6471 that would be interested in your thoughts about such a Side. Who would start the Side, who would be CWL, what casters would be involved, etc?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 102

Postby EthericSentinel » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:28 pm

bladestorm wrote:Jack could very well die. Or there could be something to Parson considering if he has any ability in a melee fight.


One of the three powers of the melted Sword of Ruthlessness was to give Parson a Combat stat. Now with no Combat stat, perhaps he can do things that would otherwise be impossible under the rules? Although a more likely explanation is that he won't be able to make any difference in direct combat...
Jabberwocky wrote:Someone is disagreeing with someone else over an irrelevant bit of trivia on the Internet of all places. Honor demands blood.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 102

Postby Glome » Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:51 pm

EthericSentinel wrote:
bladestorm wrote:Jack could very well die. Or there could be something to Parson considering if he has any ability in a melee fight.


One of the three powers of the melted Sword of Ruthlessness was to give Parson a Combat stat. Now with no Combat stat, perhaps he can do things that would otherwise be impossible under the rules? Although a more likely explanation is that he won't be able to make any difference in direct combat...


The sword of ruthlessness didn't give Parson anything, it just amplified what was already there. And Parson has both been shown to obey the same physical rules of Erfworld as everyone else, and has been in direct combat (fight seen near end of Book one where Parson kills a weiner-rammer). I'm pretty sure not seeing Parson's stats is because his stats are hidden, not that he doesn't have them. In fact we already know indirectly one of his stats, his leadership bonus is two.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 102

Postby drachefly » Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:00 am

When he killed the Weiner-Rammer, it was with the sword of ruthlessness. Now, that said, I don't know about the sword giving him a combat stat.
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