Book 2 – Page 100

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Re: Book 2 – Page 100

Postby noname_hero » Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:57 am

Let me check Parson's options... He can't go back into MK unless the city becomes a capital. He won't be able to reinforce his troops by much unless Wanda makes it into the city. Diplomacy is nearly out of the question, because Fakely has decided to go down in a blaze of glory and I don't think Tramenis would be receptive to any offers this turn. He should be able to capture the city, though - by Slately's own admission, Cubbins was the only unit that could have hoped to avoid being found and croaked by GK units - and he's gone now - before Fakely made his rush. None of the rushing units were ordered to hide, they went in knowing they'd fight and die to allow their king to get to his throne. He will be unable to mount a red dwagon because he's a Heavy. He knows Charlie has to have some plan by now but doesn't know what it could be. He has a suspect Carnymancy scroll and his only caster is Jack. He knows the uncroaked can turn and right now, most of his troops are brand new uncroaked.

So the first thing Parson could do is take all the units from the dungeon and help capture the city.

It is easy to imagine him leading his troops into the throne room and facing Fakley. Fakely has nothing to lose, he's unlikely to agree to a cease fire or anything like that but he's sure likely to talk. He could even address the decrypted troops. And that could be a moment that would inspire Parson to act.

He could declare himself a Player, he could decide to give Fate the finger, he could proclaim himself a Ruler and ask the formerly Jetstone units to swear allegiance to him. He could promise them their own city back. He could promise them peace. He could promise them survival. He could reveal Charlie's involvement and offer them joining forces with their former friends against a common enemy. He could promise them Wanda decrypting their fallen friends. He has signamancy and bonuses on top of bonuses on top of bonuses. Wanda is not in the hex. He could pull it off.

Imagine Parson capturing the city and his force becoming the most powerful one in the hex. Jack would likely join his side, Sylvia too and so could Antium. Next he sends Jack through Parson's own portal and invites Sizemore and Wanda, who too join Parson. Wanda goes mass decrypt and that decryption includes Ace Hardware.

Parson vs. the world, go!
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Re: Book 2 – Page 100

Postby Kyrt » Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:07 am

Interesting.

So...what do we have?

Parson is trapped within the city.
The city is on fire and will likely go Inferno.
You need a Dirtamancer to extinguish an inferno, or control of the city to put out uncontrolled fires.
Sizemore and Wanda are in the MK.
Tram is headed home.

Parson needs to live.

1: He could surrender, cede the fight and the city to Jetstone and get the fires put out.
2: He could fight the garrison, win, take control of the city and put the fires out.
3: He talks to Slately, persuades him to return the capital status, reopens the portal, gets Sizemore and Wanda and puts out the inferno.

Other observations:

Charlie snubbed the King. Did Slately close the portal on his own? Unlikely - he needed to known when to do so. Did Charlie call back? If so...why offscreen? Why snub Slately at all? Or does Charlie have some other mechanic to close the Portal? But...if he did...why involve Slately?

Could Tramennis/Jetstone be a target?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 100

Postby cheeseaholic » Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:37 am

Prisoner rules might get them out of this too. Jack already had one of Wanda's scrolls, so they could mind control an enemy unit to capture them so that they could flee the hex. Assuming they get some move. Which would also tie in with Parson promoting himself to field unit. Or Jillian could do capturing with Jack's help, which would be a good reason for jack to be there. And that flying item (not to mention its creator) aren't out of the hex yet.

Or could they bury themselves in the dungeon? We don't know enough about fire rules yet. It has to be unable to burn some things. Otherwise it wouldn't leave ash so much as a crator.

We're up to, what, 20 ways Parson could get out depending on the rules? Honestly there's so many ways to end this....
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Re: Book 2 – Page 100

Postby bladestorm » Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:53 pm

wrecan wrote:
bladestorm wrote:
wrecan wrote:She told him it was a trap and he would enter anyway. He entered and it was a trap. Really, that's the least cryptic thing any Predictamancer ever said.

Same expression as when someone asks you if you got your keys out of the car....

Except he asked her if it was a trap and she said "'Coss it is". Why did he ask if he didn't want to know?

I was referring more to his expression, not saying anything about he didn't want to know or didn't ask. It was relational, not antagonistic.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 100

Postby teratorn » Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:21 pm

Kyrt wrote:3: He talks to Slately, persuades him to return the capital status, reopens the portal, gets Sizemore and Wanda and puts out the inferno.


It wouldn't work, Slately would need to sit on the throne in the new capital.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 100

Postby tgriff02 » Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:18 pm

The Shadow wrote:Heh. Nice subtle sound effect on the portal, there. Didn't notice it the first time.

"WASS" - which, Google tells me, means "We Are So Screwed".

Glad I'm not theonly one that saw that. Yay! I'm not seeing Charlies behind every epileptic tree, yet ;)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 100

Postby tgriff02 » Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:21 pm

bladestorm wrote:side thought though... could Ace make some flame resistant clothing that would grant the fire resistant ability? A firefighter outfit and use the LFN golems as mobile firetrucks Flintstone style?


I'll bet that hecould do exactly that, but now that you'cve said it, Rob has to go think of a DIFFERENT way to save the day, just to keep from being predictable :twisted: :lol:
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Re: Book 2 – Page 100

Postby bladestorm » Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:49 pm

tgriff02 wrote:
bladestorm wrote:side thought though... could Ace make some flame resistant clothing that would grant the fire resistant ability? A firefighter outfit and use the LFN golems as mobile firetrucks Flintstone style?


I'll bet that hecould do exactly that, but now that you'cve said it, Rob has to go think of a DIFFERENT way to save the day, just to keep from being predictable :twisted: :lol:

Impossible to do. We make so many wild predictions that at least one of them will hit. Then we ignore all of the wrong predictions we've made and play it off like we are going for our Master class exam in predictamancy.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 100

Postby tgriff02 » Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:47 pm

Just to say, I have NO IDEA why anyone would even suggest a fake Jack; all lack of evidence aside, clones and imposter people magnify the paranoia state of a fandom exponentially, and we are a suspicious and imaginative lots already. Not saying Rob would never use such a poly, but i just think that what's going on here isn't big enough to be worth the aftermath.

I personally think that Slately made the capitol switch prematurely. My Elan-senses are tingling here. As much as we have been building up for that moment of seeing Parson trapped, if it just went off exactly like Charlie wanted it, that would have to be one of the most anticlimactic ways to present it possible. We didn't even get to SEE the order given. Rob is a much better story teller than that, I think Slately reacted to the snub from Charlsecom (out of anger or depression who knows) and just went with the part of the plan he knew, rather than wait for Charlies directive. Which could be interesting, because it DOES beg the question of what in the world was Charlie waiting for, "Just one more thing?"

So far, all thoughout this battle we have seen Parson's support crew undermining his brilliance trying to either think like him and improv (Jack), push and maneuver him without regard for his actual plan (Maggie), or go off on their own tangents (Sylvia). T'would be amusing to see some more of Charlie's cats refuse to be hearded.

I'm not looking for Jillian to return to this fight either, she pretty well set her mind when her CWL hinted at thinkamancy manipulation. It would take a serious plum to draw her back now, and while Charlie could arrange that off camera and us find out about the details later, I don't see the incentive. As Jack put it, Jillian made her choice, Ansom. And while she still cares for Wanda, the magical manipulation is still too recent for her. I don't think that she's looking to be anyone's Prisoner right this moment.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 100

Postby Dancing Cthulhu » Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:58 pm

Kyrt wrote:Interesting.

So...what do we have?

Parson is trapped within the city.
The city is on fire and will likely go Inferno.
You need a Dirtamancer to extinguish an inferno, or control of the city to put out uncontrolled fires.
Sizemore and Wanda are in the MK.
Tram is headed home.

Parson needs to live.

1: He could surrender, cede the fight and the city to Jetstone and get the fires put out.
2: He could fight the garrison, win, take control of the city and put the fires out.
3: He talks to Slately, persuades him to return the capital status, reopens the portal, gets Sizemore and Wanda and puts out the inferno.


I can't see three happening in any way, shape or form. Slately is at peace with his imminent end and he wants it to have meaning in the greater war for the survival of Jetstone and defeat of Toolism/GK. No way Parson is going to be able to talk him down before the fire becomes and inferno and convince him to spare the guy who killed Ansom and turned Jetstone's victory into ash twice and let Wanda in to decrypt the troops that sacrificed themselves to let Jetstone live another day.

Plus, I suspect he would have to sit on the throne in the new capital to switch it back.

Charlie snubbed the King. Did Slately close the portal on his own? Unlikely - he needed to known when to do so. Did Charlie call back? If so...why offscreen? Why snub Slately at all? Or does Charlie have some other mechanic to close the Portal? But...if he did...why involve Slately?

Could Tramennis/Jetstone be a target?


We know Charlie doesn't/can't host multiple thinkamancy meetings at once, he would have to have been talking with someone in the MK to work out when Parson had gone through (and prior to that to tell Jojo to convince them to let Parson through). Maybe give Jojo further instructions in the Mk - all of GKs casters are there after all (except Jack), as well as a delegation from the two major conspiracies against Charlie/Erfworld as is. I'm thinking that is why he couldn't take Slately's call. We don't seem him telling Slately "now!" as that would be far less dramatic than the effect we got from Parson's own viewpoint - looking at the portal as it closed. The fact it closed at that moment indicates Slately had received the word off screen.

noname_hero wrote:Let me check Parson's options... He can't go back into MK unless the city becomes a capital.


Correct.

He won't be able to reinforce his troops by much unless Wanda makes it into the city.


By much at all, since technically speaking there isn't a lot to decrypt. Artemis and what is left of her knights, maybe Ace, the archers that died when the tower fell and the small force Slately led back into the atrium to cover him. If the fire continues to burn uncontrolled GK is going to be loosing the existing decrypted Jetstone troops, non-decrypted knights/heavies, dwagons and warlords in the atrium at a steady pace.

Diplomacy is nearly out of the question, because Fakely has decided to go down in a blaze of glory and I don't think Tramenis would be receptive to any offers this turn.


I don't think Parson can even communicate with Trem this turn, he's flown away. Parson doesn't have a hat and Maggie isn't there.

He should be able to capture the city, though - by Slately's own admission, Cubbins was the only unit that could have hoped to avoid being found and croaked by GK units - and he's gone now - before Fakely made his rush. None of the rushing units were ordered to hide, they went in knowing they'd fight and die to allow their king to get to his throne.


If Ace is dead along with the last of Slately's suicide squad, then Slately and the couple of guys with him in the throne room are what is now stopping the city from being captured. So the city stays Jetstone till they are captured/killed.

He will be unable to mount a red dwagon because he's a Heavy. He knows Charlie has to have some plan by now but doesn't know what it could be. He has a suspect Carnymancy scroll and his only caster is Jack. He knows the uncroaked can turn and right now, most of his troops are brand new uncroaked.


All seems right.

It is easy to imagine him leading his troops into the throne room and facing Fakley. Fakely has nothing to lose, he's unlikely to agree to a cease fire or anything like that but he's sure likely to talk. He could even address the decrypted troops. And that could be a moment that would inspire Parson to act.


Indeed. Jack seems knowledge, he should be able to tell Parson "the city isn't ours, yet the portal has closed. That means the king is on his throne". I can't see Slately agreeing to anything either, because he doesn't have to, it would go against everything he has done and he probably wouldn't think it his place, since he has passed his mantle to Trem.

He could declare himself a Player, he could decide to give Fate the finger, he could proclaim himself a Ruler and ask the formerly Jetstone units to swear allegiance to him. He could promise them their own city back. He could promise them peace. He could promise them survival. He could reveal Charlie's involvement and offer them joining forces with their former friends against a common enemy. He could promise them Wanda decrypting their fallen friends. He has signamancy and bonuses on top of bonuses on top of bonuses. Wanda is not in the hex. He could pull it off.


I'm not sure revealing Charlie's involvement would do much (since he doesn't know Charlie worked this with the king). They are nominally all Toolists thanks to Wanda, Charlie is one of the chosen ones who has yet joined the flock. Since Jetstone is no cool with Charlie (in a fashion).
And so my time with the Tardy Elves draws to a close, and I am let to ponder how the experience will... eh, I'll finish later. No need to rush.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 100

Postby Dancing Cthulhu » Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:17 pm

bladestorm wrote:... could Ace make some flame resistant clothing that would grant the fire resistant ability? A firefighter outfit and use the LFN golems as mobile firetrucks Flintstone style?


Probably, but he wont if it is only to help GK. He could be dead, and if he isn't then he is still Jetstone's man. Prepared to die for the good of the side, including in a fire if it means Jetstone comes out stronger. Nothing GK should be able to do to him in the time before the fire becomes a inferno should be able to convince him to turn (betray Cubbins, betray the new found respect Jetstone has in his work, duty and all that). Short of decryption maybe, but Wanda isn't there.

Plus who know's how much juice he has left, he's done a fair bit this turn.
And so my time with the Tardy Elves draws to a close, and I am let to ponder how the experience will... eh, I'll finish later. No need to rush.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 100

Postby bladestorm » Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:03 am

Dancing Cthulhu wrote:
bladestorm wrote:... could Ace make some flame resistant clothing that would grant the fire resistant ability? A firefighter outfit and use the LFN golems as mobile firetrucks Flintstone style?


Probably, but he wont if it is only to help GK. He could be dead, and if he isn't then he is still Jetstone's man. Prepared to die for the good of the side, including in a fire if it means Jetstone comes out stronger. Nothing GK should be able to do to him in the time before the fire becomes a inferno should be able to convince him to turn (betray Cubbins, betray the new found respect Jetstone has in his work, duty and all that). Short of decryption maybe, but Wanda isn't there.

Plus who know's how much juice he has left, he's done a fair bit this turn.

get him out of the garrison, then claim the garrison. All other units in the city become prisoners, and he has the option of turning.

Worked with Wanda and Jack when they were Faq units and became GK units.

Will it happen? Likely not. Would it be fun to see? Yep. Especially if the first fire fight's command word was "Yabba", and the last one "Doo".
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Re: Book 2 – Page 100

Postby multilis » Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:13 am

"Will I win?" "Yes, Eventually. Today is just another battle."

Parson being captured to survive sounds more like "lose but survive", and "not just another battle" unless he ends up turning to side after side each battle.

(Example I can think of winning by "losing" and "turning" would be Elan's father in OOTS, but would really stretch prophesy)

Parson has "capital moved", "diplomacy", and "win before fire gets to big" as most obvious options to me.

Unknown if Stanley can move capital when not his turn. Unknown if he can move it back after. If only issue is shmuckers then probably worth it... would then only need to win garrison in time to get dirtomancer in to save city, then pliers in to decrypt.

On diplomacy, one new option is trading Ossomer type service intentionally for other side if that doesn't break Wanda. (Example: Haggar, we can give you back Prince Sammy and reduce his upkeep to 0)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 100

Postby cheeseaholic » Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:46 am

I wonder if they got any other former heirs in their ranks. Just start a new side to get Parson out of there through the portal while you get the rest of your decrypted off on dwagonback or have the former Jetstone troops walk out of the city if they get their turn then. Except the poor heavies. They're gonna burn. Unless they all get flight or a fire shelter or something.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 100

Postby Thoke » Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:02 pm

Hmm... So Cubbins is the only reason why Slately II & Friends aren't shackled? If I remember right, he mentioned something like that before.

I'm assuming only garrison units can hold the city from being captured, and C-Slately and his troops aren't garrison units but field units. Right?

I wonder how Cubbins is going to get out of the city being a garrison unit. I think Slately doesn't even know he's in the sky forwarded towards Tramennis. Tramennis is probably out of the city hex by now. And if the garrison unit rules didn't cross Ace's mind when he "rescued" Cubbins, soon we're going to see a very dramatic page of one specific incapacitated unit falling from the sky...
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Re: Book 2 – Page 100

Postby WaterMonkey314 » Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:36 pm

Thoke wrote:Hmm... So Cubbins is the only reason why Slately II & Friends aren't shackled? If I remember right, he mentioned something like that before.


Before Slately's charge back into the Garrison, yes. Now that Slately is there, he himself counts as holding the city.

I'm assuming only garrison units can hold the city from being captured, and C-Slately and his troops aren't garrison units but field units. Right?

I don't believe we've seen any evidence for this - instead the assumption has been that "garrison" units are cheaper units that can defend but cannot leave the city and thus attack. "Field" units can do everything garrison units can while also being able to move.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 100

Postby cheeseaholic » Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:53 pm

WaterMonkey314 wrote:I don't believe we've seen any evidence for this - instead the assumption has been that "garrison" units are cheaper units that can defend but cannot leave the city and thus attack. "Field" units can do everything garrison units can while also being able to move.


Gotta suck to be a captured garrison unit on the walls. Nothing to do with those guys but execute them.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 100

Postby Kyrt » Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:57 pm

Dancing Cthulhu wrote:I can't see three happening in any way, shape or form. Slately is at peace with his imminent end and he wants it to have meaning in the greater war for the survival of Jetstone and defeat of Toolism/GK. No way Parson is going to be able to talk him down before the fire becomes and inferno and convince him to spare the guy who killed Ansom and turned Jetstone's victory into ash twice and let Wanda in to decrypt the troops that sacrificed themselves to let Jetstone live another day.


That would depend entirely on what is happening at the time.

Plus, I suspect he would have to sit on the throne in the new capital to switch it back.


He is currently sitting on a throne. A throne on a capital site. And he is the King.

The question is whether he actually has to be in the "live" capital to do so.

We know Charlie doesn't/can't host multiple thinkamancy meetings at once, he would have to have been talking with someone in the MK to work out when Parson had gone through (and prior to that to tell Jojo to convince them to let Parson through). Maybe give Jojo further instructions in the Mk - all of GKs casters are there after all (except Jack), as well as a delegation from the two major conspiracies against Charlie/Erfworld as is. I'm thinking that is why he couldn't take Slately's call.


That's not the point. He didn't just "not take" Slately call. Slately called him got a "please wait" message and then Charlescomm hung up on him.

He was snubbed.

We don't seem him telling Slately "now!" as that would be far less dramatic than the effect we got from Parson's own viewpoint - looking at the portal as it closed. The fact it closed at that moment indicates Slately had received the word off screen.


The problem being that the first half is then out of place. Slately reaches the throne room...yes. He calls Charlie...yes. Charlie then snubs him and casts him aside. The action then moves to Parson.

So - what is important about the snub? He supposedly needed Slately to close the Portal....but Slately needed Charlie to tell him when Parson had moved in. Charlie didn't need to hang up on Slately just to then call back. So something else appears to be going on.

Of course, maybe Charlie DID call Slately back, and do the whole "Switch now" routine off camera. But that seems a bit of a waste on the Snub.

So what did all this get Charlie.

It got Parson into JS...but he was doing that anyway.
It got Parson trapped in JS...but that was going to happen anyway and Charlie didn't need to act if that was what he wanted.
It got Parson trapped in JS during battle and it got the capital switched to Spacerock. With the King at the old capital site and the heir travelling between them.

By much at all, since technically speaking there isn't a lot to decrypt. Artemis and what is left of her knights, maybe Ace, the archers that died when the tower fell and the small force Slately led back into the atrium to cover him. If the fire continues to burn uncontrolled GK is going to be loosing the existing decrypted Jetstone troops, non-decrypted knights/heavies, dwagons and warlords in the atrium at a steady pace.


On the other hand, Jetstone had 6000 troops in the city before Parsons plan and end up with 1500 before Tram left.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 100

Postby slb » Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:44 pm

kiyote wrote:Charlie's afraid of Parson. When you're afraid of a person and need to take them out, you go for the overkill. One good shot just isn't enough. Charlie doesn't just wait to see if Parson closes the portal, he closes it himself, makes sure everything is burning nice and bright, Parson's trapped, and then he still sends in FAQ to make sure the job is done, because he's not sure if any of it will be enough to kill him.
Ah thanks a lot, that's the first sensible explanation for this timed portal closure I read and wasn't able to figure it out myself.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 100

Postby tgriff02 » Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:03 pm

Kyrt wrote:On the other hand, Jetstone had 6000 troops in the city before Parsons plan and end up with 1500 before Tram left.


Very good point. Up until now GK has been depicted as a virtually unstopble force, steamrolling across the landscape. The don't just conquor their enemies, they raze the cities and rebuild them to suit GK's style (not that there is anything wrong with that in itself, given the game like rules of Erf; but it does imply that even if those cities are later retaken, they might need to be re-razed and re-designed yet again by the new side, which probably wouldn't have a dirtamancer to make it cheaper and have the extra control over how the city pops. In my mind this adds to the image of GK being like a tsunami-tidal wave in its advance).

But now, we assume that GK has been concentrating its decrypted forces in the push and leaving only reasonable holding forces behind them while the cities popped enough living units to man defenses and then support the supply train (or Erfworld facsimili thereof). This Turn should leave both forces significantly reduced. GK may need a few turns to rebuild a significant strike force to start it's boulder rolling again, assuming that Charlie ISN'T planning a decapitation strike, which he could very well be. And if that happens what will JS be doing? Just how many cities do they have left? How well defended are they? Could they hold off a push from a opportunistic neighbor in the lull without dispersing their remaining troops while thier army re-pops? I dare say this fight, regardless of the outcome will permanently alter the flow of the story, even without Parson getting his "true" mission debreifing from the Great Minds that Talk a Lot.
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