Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 059

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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 059

Postby LTDave » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:45 pm

ftl wrote:If war paint on your side is natural signamancy, you can throw pink glitter on the other guys to make them wimpier.


Wouldn't that just make them more fabulous?
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 059

Postby youngstormlord » Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:21 am

I'll repeat: Did anyone else notice that Wanda is wearing robe of Faq caster/kimono instead of rags (from fifth element) on that illustration? It's as if Wanda went to speak with Marie and Marie gave her some clothes... Signamancy of changing alliance perhaps?.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 059

Postby ftl » Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:10 am

Ooh, that too is a good point too. We know she'll turn eventually; maybe this is the start of it.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 059

Postby Shai_hulud » Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:15 pm

This update lends further support to my theory that Foolamancy creates hallucinations, not holograms. If true, that would mean the two of three eyemancies we've been shown are mind magics.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 059

Postby onlyme » Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:47 pm

youngstormlord wrote:I'll repeat: Did anyone else notice that Wanda is wearing robe of Faq caster/kimono instead of rags (from fifth element) on that illustration? It's as if Wanda went to speak with Marie and Marie gave her some clothes... Signamancy of changing alliance perhaps?.


Or Olive ordered everyone to wear stuff like that and perhaps made some decorations to please Faq.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 059

Postby onlyme » Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:00 pm

Shai_hulud wrote:This update lends further support to my theory that Foolamancy creates hallucinations, not holograms.


I'd say Jack being able to make different people see different things was a more important point there (see Jillian returning to Faq).

But then the question is: Is there a difference between those two? In our world we learned that there is form and light without a watcher. (Which took many centuries before all the other theory like things being intersections of concepts instead of union of atoms, or seeing happening by eyes sending something out so we can see did mostly die.
In Erfworld there might only be concepts that are the reality and what you see only images generated from those concepts (or perhaps some intermediate form of concepts generating drawing primitives (which Jack's inner monologues from Book 2 could be interpreted as) and minds perceiving those. If there is no physical light but forms to be perceived, then there is no difference between a hologram and a halunciation.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 059

Postby MonteCristo » Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:09 pm

youngstormlord wrote:I'll repeat: Did anyone else notice that Wanda is wearing robe of Faq caster/kimono instead of rags (from fifth element) on that illustration? It's as if Wanda went to speak with Marie and Marie gave her some clothes... Signamancy of changing alliance perhaps?.


Ya i don't think you should read much into it...
First, we don't know if it is in fact Faq clothing. For instance, is her robe green or is it red? Frankly I don't see why Marie would be carrying around a spare robe wither her
Second, If it was meant to be somekind of significant signamancy, i think then her clothing would have been mentioned in the text... The text would have directly mentioned that Wanda was now wearing green robes. Remember, unlike the comic, these prequel stories are meant to be read... if there is something meant to be significant, it will be there in the text.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 059

Postby Chit Rule Railroad » Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:14 pm

onlyme wrote:But then the question is: Is there a difference between those two? In our world we learned that there is form and light without a watcher. (Which took many centuries before all the other theory like things being intersections of concepts instead of union of atoms, or seeing happening by eyes sending something out so we can see did mostly die.
In Erfworld there might only be concepts that are the reality and what you see only images generated from those concepts (or perhaps some intermediate form of concepts generating drawing primitives (which Jack's inner monologues from Book 2 could be interpreted as) and minds perceiving those. If there is no physical light but forms to be perceived, then there is no difference between a hologram and a halunciation.

A related possibility is that each unit in Erf has, for each "signamancy primitive" in Erfworld, a binary outcome for whether that primitive is visible to (or noticed by?) the unit. (There might also be a probability that the primitive is mis-seen as a similar primitive.) The calculation of that seeing/noticing would be based on occlusion, distance, ambient lighting, possibly color contrast, etc., but it would also be manipulable by foolamancy - real signamancy can be set unseen and false projections can be set seen. If the foolamancer wants to hide an object, that becomes easier as the foolamancer can incorporate more of its signamancy primitives into his veil, requiring fewer to be set unseen.

Clarifying signamancy vs. foolamancy: For example, Slately's warpaint probably does not depend on being seen to give him its bonuses, but hiding it could cause an enemy unit to underestimate him, while projecting foolamancied warpaint on Trammenis could fool an enemy unit into overestimating his personal combat prowess.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 059

Postby effataigus » Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:52 am

Foolamancy has been used on an individual by individual basis as you say... but if that were the only application, then it would be hard to use a foolamancer to veil troops, since the foolamancer would have to be casting on the target before the target saw them. This would mean the foolamancer would have to have seen the fooled before the fooled see the foolamancer.

From this I'm guessing he can fool at the source or at the sink... being able to see what the sink sees would just mean he can fool more effectively. Speculation, of course.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 059

Postby Shai_hulud » Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:10 pm

The reason this update made me feel pretty sure he is doing something "psionic" is that he isn't just seeing what Jillian sees, but is seeing her internal delusions and visions, including the split personality clown thing inside the creepy knife house. It's a purely mental construct, with no real basis in the room she is in at the time, but he can see it anyway.

effataigus wrote:Foolamancy has been used on an individual by individual basis as you say... but if that were the only application, then it would be hard to use a foolamancer to veil troops, since the foolamancer would have to be casting on the target before the target saw them. This would mean the foolamancer would have to have seen the fooled before the fooled see the foolamancer.

From this I'm guessing he can fool at the source or at the sink... being able to see what the sink sees would just mean he can fool more effectively. Speculation, of course.
Or you could say he "broadcasts" a mental signal that says "You don't see me" from his mind into the surrounding area/hexes.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 059

Postby effataigus » Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:22 pm

Gah... I wonder how much of a person's awareness he is privy to... could he, say, eavesdrop on thinkagrams? I don't buy that Jack is Charlie for a minute, but there are some out there who do... IMO, that theory explains almost as many observations as it contradicts.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 059

Postby Shai_hulud » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:33 am

Without much regard for aim, she side-armed the thing across the room with all her strength. It shattered meekly, its shards falling to the carpet.
That is the second cup we've seen her smash like that (first one in the summer updates with don king). She really doesn't like cups, does she?
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