Book 2 – Page 99

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Re: Book 2 – Page 99

Postby joosy » Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:19 pm

I am still curious (as we all are) as to what Charlie's plan is.
We know that it has to take place BEFORE Parson can control the garrison as that is what he planned to do anyway and the portal would close regardless.

The whole point of changing the portal before GK owns the city is to cut off any escape to the Magic Kingdom before GK controls the city. That means that there is some other scheme.

Now, I do not believe there are any archons in the airspace as they would have been seen by Slately via his Thinking Cap. Even if Charlie sided with Jetstone this turn, none of his allies would be able to cross zones to help.

So either Charlie's plan involves somehing with the current makeup of Slately's troops or involves other forces that can move within the garrision on this turn. The only forces that I know of are Haggar's. Perhaps Charlie is convincing them to come to Jetstone's aid once more? Perhaps have Haggar 'capture' more of Charlie's Archons and bring them into the garrison since they now move with Haggar? We will see.
Last edited by joosy on Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 99

Postby teratorn » Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:42 pm

I'm way more curious about seeing Sylvia interacting with Parson than about Charlie's plan.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 99

Postby bladestorm » Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:52 pm

Salem wrote:
Finwe wrote:Could the individuals involved in discussing community, social contracts, etc please take it to another thread? You're way off topic.




One important rule about corpses is that they disappear at the start of your turn *if they are not moved.* A viable strategy for Parson may be to simply pile up all the corpses in a warehouse and hope they last long enough for Wanda to arrive by dwagon. This is assuming that the City isn't destroyed by the fire. It may very well be destroyed, leaving Parson and crew alone in the wilderness, far from home, with no high-level city defenses to protect them.

Just a heads up first bit isn't really necessary, the people who were actively doing that haven't said anything after the last user posted a longer bit of exactly what you said.

As for the second bit, that is a good plan, but it's also a gamble. Decryption might take a fresh corpse, it's a good bet that in that respect it works like uncroaking. But with that many corpses on the line, it is a major gamble, not necessarily for odds of success but for the wager required. Be smart to test it though so you'd be sure later, and if you have no other options definetly the plan to use.


It doesn't require fresh corpses. The volcano erupted and killed the forces of RCC that were at GK. At the start of the next turn (Page 144), a dwagon popped and it was dawn. GK's turn, and no one was in their battlespace. It was after that that Wanda started decrypting, starting with Ansom, who very clearly croaked on the previous turn (unless Bogroll got 2 levels worth of xp from being burned to death and chopped into tiny bits scattered to the winds.)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 99

Postby teratorn » Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:52 pm

bladestorm wrote: It was after that that Wanda started decrypting, starting with Ansom, who very clearly croaked on the previous turn (unless Bogroll got 2 levels worth of xp from being burned to death and chopped into tiny bits scattered to the winds.)


I don't get your point. Didn't Ansom croak during RCC's turn not GK's? If so, his body was still available.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 99

Postby Salem » Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:13 pm

teratorn wrote:
bladestorm wrote: It was after that that Wanda started decrypting, starting with Ansom, who very clearly croaked on the previous turn (unless Bogroll got 2 levels worth of xp from being burned to death and chopped into tiny bits scattered to the winds.)


I don't get your point. Didn't Ansom croak during RCC's turn not GK's? If so, his body was still available.

Turn for side would be irrelevant. Turn for Erf not. I thought that relative time in hexes is what was the factor since you see nighttime and overcast due to volcano. But night is only clearly shown in TMK and in Jill's hex. But sunrise is clearly what is occuring as Ansom is re-popped, therefore an Erf turn ended and began before he was reborn. Now if the unit only degrades on the next RCC turn we'd need to know a bit more. But I feel that takes too much assumption especially since no one was in GK battlespace anymore.

I believe we now know that you can decrypt a unit that has at least decomposed a little.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 99

Postby bladestorm » Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:12 pm

teratorn wrote:
bladestorm wrote: It was after that that Wanda started decrypting, starting with Ansom, who very clearly croaked on the previous turn (unless Bogroll got 2 levels worth of xp from being burned to death and chopped into tiny bits scattered to the winds.)


I don't get your point. Didn't Ansom croak during RCC's turn not GK's? If so, his body was still available.

There would be no next turn for the RCC. As of Page 138, the Coalition was confirmed to be dissolved.

The day started on age 104, with Charlescomm. On 106, Parson gets his daily rations, and on 107, Caesar announces that GK has started turn. Everyone else has to go through their turns before GK can get their next turn.

So why did the bodies not decay at the start of the turn? Maybe changing the terrain counted as moving the bodies?

After GK wins against Jetstone, all they'd have to do is shuffle the bodies of the croaked around until Wanda arrived with the Pliers. There maybe some amount of decay, but the process would be slowed. GK could at least get enough units recovered to act as a screen, even if all was left of them were legs and a torso. But can a unit with no mouth still taste the key lime pie?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 99

Postby teratorn » Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:44 pm

bladestorm wrote:There would be no next turn for the RCC. As of Page 138, the Coalition was confirmed to be dissolved.


Then the bodies should not disappear :mrgreen: since there is no beggining of next turn.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 99

Postby Salem » Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:06 pm

teratorn wrote:
bladestorm wrote:There would be no next turn for the RCC. As of Page 138, the Coalition was confirmed to be dissolved.


Then the bodies should not disappear :mrgreen: since there is no beggining of next turn.

Doesn't a coalition go on a turn beloning to one of the members, rather than create a placing on the turn order? Which if the bodies degrade only on the RCC commision turn rather than start of turn which sounds right since I believe that's when you heal start of your turn.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 99

Postby Swodaems » Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:00 pm

Since we're now discussing corpses depopping. I thought it would be good to include the relevant quote.

From Episode 6 of "Inner Peace thru Superior Firepower"
The body of the scout would have depopped at dawn, had they not moved it out of the hex where it was croaked. Claimed as a spoil for Goodminton, it would only decay a bit when they started their turn later in the morning. Wanda wanted to be with the body when that happened, so that she could study the process. Her life was full of firsts, but the firsts within her discipline were the ones that most held her interest.


There is no mention of how the answers to the questions of "Whose side is he on?" "Whose turn did the scout croak on?" or "Whose turn is at dawn?" would affect the depopping process. It just says that it would have happened at dawn if it wasn't moved out of the hex.

This does seem to conflict with Book 2 at 2 points. (We might have had this discussion before, when that episode came out, but have since forgotten it.)

As was said earlier, when the above text is interpreted as "all bodies depop at dawn", this means the corpses from the volcano uncroaking should have depopped at dawn since they weren't moved out of the city hex. Two ways to explain why they haven't this have been put forward. 1. The volcano uncroaking counted as moving them. 2. The rule should be interpreted as "unless moved out of the hex, bodies depop when their side next has a turn." (Haffaton's turn was at dawn when the scout croaked, so it fits with the quote above.)

However, neither of those explain why the corpse of Misty (Gobwin Knob's Lookamancer, who croaked when a trilink between her, Maggie, and Jack was broken,) was still around for Parson to wail over earlier in the story. The link was clearly broken before Gobwin Knob started turn. We see Jack walking around in his post-link state, during a scene that happens before dawn.

I'd present an explantion for Misty's corpse if I could think of one, but I don't think I can with the amount of effort I have time for.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 99

Postby bladestorm » Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:36 pm

Swodaems wrote:I'd present an explanation for Misty's corpse if I could think of one, but I don't think I can with the amount of effort I have time for.

Several options for that. For one option, it was before dawn, so turn hadn't started yet. Another option is that she didn't croak last turn, so she would be considered a fresh corpse for the entirety of the turn after the link was broken. Another option is that she croaked when Stanley gave the command to break the link, which he did at the very start of GK's turn, which would have given Parson the entire rest of the turn to deal with a dead body. Fourth option -- she croaked, but she wasn't croaked, so somehow by not having a croaking due to conflict it extended the rule by a turn (streeetch). Fifth, the corpse cleanup mechanic works on the same principle as the production mechanic, in that it is more efficient when your CWL pays attention to the process ad does daily rounds.

Whichever option you wanna take, the other casters knew she would depop at the start of next turn, and didn't seem bothered by the fact that she didn't depop at the start of THIS turn.

Though now I wonder if Wanda has a small shrine for Misty hidden away somewhere. Or a monument for Bogroll. D'be a nice commemoration for him to have a statue of him in the center of the garrison, marking the spot where he achieved his last level, with a little plaque telling his tale. Would also make a nice gift for Parson, since he seemed so moved by the sacrifice.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 99

Postby drachefly » Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:47 pm

It would have depopped at dawn because its side went first in turn order.

GK went first in turn order, so RCC units would not depop at dawn, but when the RCC's turn would have been, or something.

Shoot. Charlescomm's turn is before GK's, but they got the archons, so that doesn't work.

I would definitely buy the mountain 'moving' the units since Wanda would definitely want to have croaked to work with.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 99

Postby teratorn » Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:07 pm

drachefly wrote:Shoot. Charlescomm's turn is before GK's, but they got the archons, so that doesn't work.


The archons were under contract with RCC, Ansom had signed the deal.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 99

Postby Radagast » Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:09 pm

Arky wrote:Was I the only person who assumed that that isn't Jack and is in fact Jojo using a trick? Maybe I'm just paranoid....


Well, Jojo is probably the second most watched person in MK right now after Parson... plus how would he know who Antium was? Or that Jack and Parson had had wargames?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 99

Postby MarbitChow » Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:05 pm

Bodies depopping: If the corpse is created any time before the end of your current turn, it depops at the start of your next. This gives you a window in which to 'use' the corpse.

(Apologies in advance if I don't remember the exact sequences; I'm sure I'll be corrected if that's the case.)
Misty croaked off-turn, at night. Therefore, the corpse does not depop at the start of GK's turn. It depops at the start of the next.
The scout was killed on Goodmitton's turn, therefore it depops at the start of their next turn unless moved.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 99

Postby SuicideJunkie » Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:25 pm

Those archons?
They died in the airspace, and their corpses subsequently moved to the ground.

Problem solved :)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 99

Postby Beeskee » Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:07 am

joosy wrote:I am still curious (as we all are) as to what Charlie's plan is.


Epileptic Tree Theory:

[crazy]The entire castle has been replaced with Charlie's Archons all holding hands! @.@ (And maybe a few master class foolamancers!) They're patiently waiting for the right moment to spring the trap! They've taken some heavy losses with the 'structural' damage, but it will be worth it once Parson clears the dungeon area! They'll be falling on him like rain! @.@ [/crazy]

(edit: made crazier)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 99

Postby Oberon » Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:50 am

sheepfly wrote:Edit: Ace could carry Slately's body while wearing the jetpack. Why wouldn't he carry Cubbins away from the city himself if getting Cubbins out was his primary concern? It's not like he has any cloth golems left to command.
Wait, what? Aren't those two plushies being "SICK BURNED" right in front of Ace and after he launched Cubbins? There is what looks like seam work on the one on the left, and the one on the right seems too spindly to be a dwagon. I was guessing it was a giwaffe (or whatever they are called).
Urf wrote:
ftl wrote:So it's just units vs units. It gives Parson a chance to be clever in some way other than just "make up a spell for the casters to do".
Parley.
Sure, but Parson/GK hasn't been terribly good at parley with Jetstone to date. Parson's first parley with Ansom was to deliberately provoke him. His second was to deceive and kill him. Ansom's parley with Tram and Ossomer was to get them to ally, but JS was having none of it as they felt they could plug the gap at the bridge and had committed their casters to that effort as well (plus they thought Ansom had brought his "usual infantry and siege heavy unit mix" and were prepared for it). Wanda's parley with Jillian was a wash with neither deciding to join or fight the other. Jillian wasn't JS but was an ally. Ossomer's parley with Slately was a GK stalling tactic, was never taken seriously by JS in any event, and then GK initiated the attack and that was the end of that. Every GK/JS parley has either failed or was never intended to bring about any kind of peaceful resolution at all.

Now Tram is disabled and clonely has objectives that, while they could be advanced by a pause in combat to parley, would be just another parley intended to bring some advantage rather than a parley in good faith intended to bring about even a short term (as in, dozen of turns rather than hundreds of turns) end to conflict between the two sides.
onlyme wrote:On another note, anyone any idea what the trick is?
Could be as simple as "I made myself invisible and created an illusion of myself before telling you that I was out of juice. Then I was really out of juice and had to end the illusion. Invisibility lasts the turn unless I change zones." But that's highly speculative. Just pointing out a possibility which occurred to me. I also like the speculation of the person (lost you in the thread, sorry) who said Jack may have just been standing invisible with his head through the portal this whole time. In this case he also wouldn't be violating any "no casters may pass through the JS portal" rules, whether or not those rules are enforceable.
wrecan wrote:[Parson] looks like a potato. Both Stanley and Tramennis have noted Parson's potato-shape as an indication that they do not think he could be much of a warlord. My guess is that large people have the signamancy of dullards (or at least uncreative) and most smart people are of slighter stature. [snippage]
How about the KISS principle, Parson looks exactly like a two eyed twoll? You know, a particularly dim unit type? "I can count to three", etc.
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Zeroberon wrote:So we know with 100% certainty that THIS IS HOW TRI-LINKS WORK, PERIOD END OF STORY.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 99

Postby Finwe » Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:38 pm

bladestorm wrote:
Swodaems wrote:I'd present an explanation for Misty's corpse if I could think of one, but I don't think I can with the amount of effort I have time for.

Several options for that. For one option, it was before dawn, so turn hadn't started yet. Another option is that she didn't croak last turn, so she would be considered a fresh corpse for the entirety of the turn after the link was broken. Another option is that she croaked when Stanley gave the command to break the link, which he did at the very start of GK's turn, which would have given Parson the entire rest of the turn to deal with a dead body. Fourth option -- she croaked, but she wasn't croaked, so somehow by not having a croaking due to conflict it extended the rule by a turn (streeetch). Fifth, the corpse cleanup mechanic works on the same principle as the production mechanic, in that it is more efficient when your CWL pays attention to the process ad does daily rounds.


My guess is that when a unit croaks, its corpse depops at the start of the turn of the side it croaked on. So every side in the current conflict gets to have a turn before the body fades. If Misty croaked at night, her body disappears the following night. If a unit croaks during Jetstone's turn, it will persist through the night and the following day until it is Jetstone's turn again.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 99

Postby tgriff02 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:54 pm

For my part, I NEVER intended any actual attack on Kreistor, and I apologize for my contribution to that breakdown in threadflow; I just really, REALLY wanted to throw in that Banhammer rudeness reference. As far as referring to Kreister as a Twoll, well, I have no defense beyond that I really should have read that again before posting, and that I was meaning that I refused to enguage him, except for fun (aka the Banhammer joke that I was trying to make). Now, I'm fully done with that and will not further acknowledge any replies, quotes, or addendum to said discussion.

Now, Moving on to talking about the actual COMIC, what a novel idea :D

As for corpse decay; my natural assumption was that when the characters said corpses de-pop at the beginning of the next turn, they refereed to their side's next turn. I have no references to site or examples of such, just stating what I automatically assumed, and said assumption has worked for me as far as just understanding the story. As far as cited references to a supposed breach of that rule, all I can propose is that Rob has created a very rich and detailed world here on Erf, and by writing a story from the POV of the miniatures marching across the board he has really made obvious alot of the ridiculousness of these sorts of stratagy game rules. I have run lots of homebrew D&D and D20 Modern campaign with homemade character classes, races, and weapons/spells, and I have seen several other posters on here that display the creativity required to enjoy such adventures; I can honestly say though, that when you start popping your own Frankenstein creations out into the world, inevitably you run into some bizarre combination of details that cause you have to "fudge" the rules either the standard or the ones you made, to keep from blowing up the universe, or at least your story. And when that happens, no amount of revising or retconjuring can really explain away the inconsistency. Heck, one of my play groups spent three gaming sessions taking down a vampire before either we or the DM realized that the entire fight had taken place outdoors, in broad daylight. Rather, than go back and change anything we all just agreed that it was better (and more fun) to just treat it as some kind of wild magic that had changed the laws for THAT vampire. (or she had some REALLY high SPF coppertone).

I'm still liking the idea that Charlie has a decapitation strike on GK in mind, although, to be honest; that would be INCREDIBLY straightforward and non-convoluted for Charlie, he normaly seems to live for the subterfuge of hidden agendas and plans within plans, but hey, simple and clean-cut can be a refreshing change of pace from time to time, especially when you get to do it after having manipulated your enemy into willingly sending all of his best defenses far, far away.

As far as Jack's "trick." i don't know what it was, but I'm enjoying it either way. Although as far as the proposed theories go, I'm not in favor of the "Jack was never there" option simply because we've seen the portal from the JS side without Jack's butt hanging in the air. I believe in the strength of Occam's razor, and it just seems to me like that would require 2 veils (the decapitation illusion that got him and Wanda INTO the MK, and the one on the JS side to hide his vulnerable rear), one of which seems utterly unnecessary as it involved him hiding from his own units. Not to say that this comic and Rob don't enjoy making thing necessarily complicated for the same of creating the jokes and plot points, but for a castor that low on juice it seems mighty low priority.

One question, though. I keep seeing references to the spokesman for TGMTTA as a master foolamancer, but I cannot find the Comic reference that states he is so. I thought he was another Thinkamancer. could someone help me out with that please?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 99

Postby Sonic Screwdriver » Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:49 pm

tgriff02 wrote:As far as Jack's "trick." i don't know what it was, but I'm enjoying it either way. Although as far as the proposed theories go, I'm not in favor of the "Jack was never there" option simply because we've seen the portal from the JS side without Jack's butt hanging in the air. I believe in the strength of Occam's razor, and it just seems to me like that would require 2 veils (the decapitation illusion that got him and Wanda INTO the MK, and the one on the JS side to hide his vulnerable rear), one of which seems utterly unnecessary as it involved him hiding from his own units. Not to say that this comic and Rob don't enjoy making thing necessarily complicated for the same of creating the jokes and plot points, but for a castor that low on juice it seems mighty low priority.
It might be easier to have himself as a unit be hit with invisibility than it is to be selective where the invisibility goes, which would be a single veil that's crossing the portal; and since we already allow movement through the portal off-turn, casting would likely be just as free.
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