Erfgame 3 (CLOSED) - Rules and Discussion

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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Koliup » Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:33 pm

Safaquel wrote:Offtopic: Which caster do you think could influence the stats of popped units? Before they were even popped? Say, modifying the template of a particular unit if popped in a particular city?


Changemancy. But it's stuffamancy and may only apply to pre-existing... stuff. After that is Luckamancy(Boost the luck of a unit being popped chances to acquire a certain special), Weirdomancy(because why not?), and maaaaaaybe Carnymancy(but I highly doubt it).
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Lord of Monies » Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:20 pm

That's something that the city itself does really, depending on how you spend your flavour points when upgrading a city. Even then, if a caster were to do it somehow it would only be temporary at best I reckon as that's a big thing you're aiming to implement. It's not making an object, and to my knowledge any discipline that doesn't make a thing tends to have a time limit on it.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Sir Shadow » Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:19 pm

Safaquel wrote:Offtop: Which caster do you think could influenc the stats of popped units? Before they were ven popped? Say, modifying the template of a particular unit if popped in a particular city?
Conceptually, I would say a Signamancer or Changemancer could possibly affect a popping unit given their elements, axes, and what we know of their disciplines (which isn't much, honestly).

We know that Natural Signamancy is what gives the appearance of each creature and object in the world. For living things, the essence of the inside affects the outside. So it's not hard to imagine that perhaps Signamancy could affect what a creature appears like and possibly affect what they're capable of. It's has both Life and Matter on the Fate axis, so it doesn't sound all that implausible.

As for Changemancy, it's on the Fate axis as well with the Matter element, which is why I think it might also perhaps have that application.

Then again, affecting unpopped units (aside from a turnamancer making it happen faster) might be something outside of what one caster could do and might require a link-up.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Safaquel » Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:32 am

Okay, so change-conny link would do the trick nicely, thanks. Rig a city to produce units with more and wider range of specials than allowed by their template, create war-changing supercommando units, rent out the services for specific missions.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Koliup » Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:16 am

Safaquel wrote:Okay, so change-conny link would do the trick nicely, thanks. Rig a city to produce units with more and wider range of specials than allowed by their template, create war-changing supercommando units, rent out the services for specific missions.


War changing supercommando units are called D class specials.
Though the wider range of specials thing is a neat idea. Perhaps we could utilize flavor points to give otherwise static special'd units a chance of randomized specials, like Archons have with their random simple mancies?
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Safaquel » Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:52 am

Koliup wrote: Perhaps we could utilize flavor points to give otherwise static special'd units a chance of randomized specials, like Archons have with their random simple mancies?


Nope. Rig everything. Rig the rules so you can have an expanded templates. Rig the templates so that they can have multiple -mancies. Rig the props themselves to have an expanded and extended effect.
Three-caster link is abusable and gamebreaking, and it would be a waste not to use it thusly.

And of course, of course remember to enhance your leader with every cutting-edge thing you can possibly have. And rig the rules on him. I mean, a battle armor that can heal or carry an incapacitated leader out of a battle, croaking some resistance as it goes is well worth any expense.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Lord of Monies » Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:20 am

Just remember the bigger ways in which you want to change things require a more powerful caster. Even in a link-up you'd probably need all the casters involved to be masterclass to pull off such a thing at which point the link-up might be so interwoven that it would still be difficult to end the link and protect everyone at the same time. Thinkamancy is a dangerous discipline that's not best to toy with.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Safaquel » Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:23 am

Lord of Monies wrote:Just remember the bigger ways in which you want to change things require a more powerful caster. Even in a link-up you'd probably need all the casters involved to be masterclass to pull off such a thing at which point the link-up might be so interwoven that it would still be difficult to end the link and protect everyone at the same time. Thinkamancy is a dangerous discipline that's not best to toy with.


Weeeerrrrrlllll, that's where the actual craftiness comes in.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Exate » Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:44 pm

Lord of Monies wrote:Not sure I can ask the Titans to shine down on me either as I did that several turns ago and now it would seem like I'm pestering them for every little thing (regardless of how big it actually is) so I need to win this under my own steam.
On this topic: How religious are your rulers? How do they express their religion, if any?

Sultan Shahryar is very religious, though he doesn't really pray. It would take very desperate circumstances to get him to ask the Titans for something, instead of simply being certain that they are watching always and that their will is always done, one way or another. He tends to invoke the Titans when giving speeches or reassuring himself, reminding his troops that they stand in the Titans' sight and favor or himself that the Titans know his heart and fate and that when natural magics happen (units pop, cities upgrade, etc.) it is by their decisions that the results come, and that they have the knowledge and power to bring the side what it needs even if he does not fully understand why. Perhaps it's odd for a ruler to be comforted by the knowledge that ultimately there is someone bigger and more responsible for the way the world turns out than they are, but that's how things seem to be working out.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby 0beron » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:30 pm

Victoria mainly follows the "huh, the Titans will do as they please, and nothing I say or do will change their minds. They know my unspoken desires, so there's not much point in asking for things aloud." approach.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Lord of Monies » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:56 pm

Daphnes sort of sees the Titans and Fate as one and the same. He's never spoken aloud to the Titans, but the circumstances that quote of mine was referring to was a battle he wasn't sure of but really wanted to win. He was desperate, he wanted it, but it also didn't seem like a big or momentous enough an event that Fate really cared or applied. He could win it or lose it but still fight on for the more important matters later. So he silently hoped the Titans would shine on him as it would be a great help, and boy it was, but if it didn't work then he would still manage. With the Titans, you can do nothing more than ask.

In retrospect, my recent battle would have been pointless to ask the Titans as it was likely a Fated event in some way, and by going now instead of coming back later with help if possible, I possibly went against Fate slightly taking the Hard Way, and as such taking casualties. That would also explain why the Malus refused my commands too. Or it's just that stubborn. Either way, Daphnes is aware of Fate being the Titan's way of enacting their influence which only happens now and then. The little things, like what the Sultan believes with natural magic, Daphnes wouldn't have thought of it like that. He's more practical. New unit comes his way, he'll try to understand what he can about it, figure out its strengths and weaknesses, then apply it where it works best.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Kaed » Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:36 pm

My biggest frustration with this game is that a few of my favorite player(s) have huge turnover times for their replies. I'm still waiting for certain people who will not be named to reply, and I don't want everyone to get out of sync too much again. You're all reaching the stages where you are going to find each other soon and I can no longer use the excuse that no one is near each other anymore to shoot ahead turns.
UNLESS someone like you cares a whole awful lot, nothing is going to get better. It's not.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Safaquel » Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:07 am

Easy. Make actions of players with 'ahead turns' Fated.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Lord of Monies » Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:11 am

Ehhh, that's tricky to always implement, and sometimes when players meet they want to talk first. You can't really "Fate" out a discussion if you don't know what they plan to discuss. If it's not involving your ruler or some such, then yeah maybe some things can be fated, but not everything.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Exate » Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:39 pm

Koliup wrote:Has anyone tried taming a wild unit before?
Missed this- yes, I've tamed wild units. In my estimation croaking them is likely to be more beneficial to an established side, but at the moment it seems a decent way to get units stronger than what could otherwise be reasonably acquired. Make sure that their stats and abilities are worth the upkeep cost, though.

Kaed wrote:My biggest frustration with this game is that a few of my favorite player(s) have huge turnover times for their replies. I'm still waiting for certain people who will not be named to reply, and I don't want everyone to get out of sync too much again. You're all reaching the stages where you are going to find each other soon and I can no longer use the excuse that no one is near each other anymore to shoot ahead turns.
Yeah, the coming turns are going to be... rough at best, with the need for everything to happen in order and constantly bounce through the GM when players interact with each other. I'm not sure how to ensure that things would go smoothly even under the best of circumstances, and as you note these circumstances are not ideal.

Safaquel wrote:Easy. Make actions of players with 'ahead turns' Fated.
That's wildly impractical, because while fate determines that specific things will happen, it does not determine how they happen. When we play through things, we're seeing and controlling the how; there's nothing to stop a player from ordering a field unit home which is fated to be croaked by another player, for example, and nothing reasonable to stop them from following those orders. The units will still croak, but the details of where they croak, what units do it, and how many casualties they inflict on those units are strategically critical and have so many details that declaring them all fated is basically locking the players out of running their sides.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Safaquel » Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:23 pm

One can work with all that, but I feel I'd be hurting Kaed by disclosing secrets of the guild if I were to elaborate.
It'd be like taking the 'magic' out of the 'trick'.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Exate » Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:18 pm

If all goes well, I am about to do the most insanely reckless- and possibly the most fremen- thing that I've done yet in this game. Possibly the most insane thing that I ever will do in this game, although that might not pan out.

Wish me luck. Except for Kaed; he can give me fate instead.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Kaed » Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:17 pm

Sooo...
UNLESS someone like you cares a whole awful lot, nothing is going to get better. It's not.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Koliup » Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:11 pm

The year is ending! Oh nooooo!
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby 0beron » Tue Jan 01, 2013 5:10 pm

I've answered, just waiting on a response (if there is one) to my post-end-of-turn chatter.
"I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."
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