Darkness Rising - Charlie's Mission #1

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Re: Darkness Rising - Charlie's Mission #1

Postby ETheBoyce » Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:33 am

Wait, if they know our stats shouldn't we know theirs?
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Re: Darkness Rising - Charlie's Mission #1

Postby CroverusRaven » Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:42 am

Exactly, unless that scout has Leadership, all they should know is "There's a bunch of units around the corner." Cause that's all what we learned from our scout.

Also, unless I cast something, I don't think they should be able to tell I'm a Shockamancer simply by looking at me. I should have to actually cast a spell first for them to be able to figure that out.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Charlie's Mission #1

Postby Werebiscuit » Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:45 am

Either Anex or Sekan can take out the scout in one shot as they need to score 10 or better for a complete kill. Sekan will only fail if he rolls "snake eyes" giving him 7 +2 (roll) vs 2 + 3 (dodge) + l (lead) and if he mighty shots then their leadership has to be 4 for him to fail.

i seriously doubt a 4 leadership will have only 2 stacks...but then again we're going to do the same so it's possible.

I'd say let Sekan take the shot as Anex can apply mighty blow and support or co-ordinate to her shot to boost Sekan's next shot , Sekan can only apply one modifier. Unless I've misunderstood modifiers as well.

Either way we have ALL to move now, the only question is do we rush them ? or do we fall back and concentrate on taking out their missile support ?
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Re: Darkness Rising - Charlie's Mission #1

Postby ETheBoyce » Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:07 am

It doesn't matter whether it is the weird-talking warlord or the Shockamancer who discovers the scout, when he is pointed out Sekan's bowstring stretches farther and farther out as his bow winds back to deliver a devastating shot to the enemy unit. Sekan fires on the unit without remorse, what he did was a just a merciful thing, better an arrow to the eye than to feel the burning torment of a Shockamancer's casting.

(OOC: Mighty Blowing that scout...wait what?)
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Re: Darkness Rising - Charlie's Mission #1

Postby MarbitChow » Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:46 am

ETheBoyce wrote:Wait, if they know our stats shouldn't we know theirs?
You know the stats of all the units you can see.

CroverusRaven wrote:Exactly, unless that scout has Leadership, all they should know is "There's a bunch of units around the corner." Cause that's all what we learned from our scout.
Also, unless I cast something, I don't think they should be able to tell I'm a Shockamancer simply by looking at me. I should have to actually cast a spell first for them to be able to figure that out.
Here is an example when you sent a non-leadership scout group forward in order to see the stats of units, while keeping the leadership out of line-of-sight. The enemy plays by the same rules that the players do.

They can tell you're a shockamancer simply by looking at you in exactly the same way you can tell what all the enemy units are simply by looking at them.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Charlie's Mission #1

Postby ETheBoyce » Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:21 am

Well then they know we have a caster of some kind, not a Shockamancer since I'd shoot him the moment he entered LOS they should get the exact same information we got from our Scout, a visual image without stats or explanation
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Re: Darkness Rising - Charlie's Mission #1

Postby Nnelg » Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:07 am

MarbitChow wrote:Here is an example when you sent a non-leadership scout group forward in order to see the stats of units, while keeping the leadership out of line-of-sight. The enemy plays by the same rules that the players do.

And here is an example where we did not.

I really don't mind if you rule that all units can see all stats of all units visible to other units. But there really needs to be a consistent ruling on this. (Personally, I preferred "stats only visible by Leadership units"... Possibly this could be extended to "Command Units", which would allow all players to view stats and keep both examples consistent.)


Anyways, we need to reform. I think it would be best, then, to move to the north edge of the path and get the gobwins in formation, then start marching forward around the corner. There's no way they're coming around it themselves if they know we have a Shockamancer.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Charlie's Mission #1

Postby MarbitChow » Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:59 pm

Nnelg wrote:And here is an example where we did not.
You're correct. You (or at least Napier) should have seen the stats.

Nnelg wrote:I really don't mind if you rule that all units can see all stats of all units visible to other units. But there really needs to be a consistent ruling on this. (Personally, I preferred "stats only visible by Leadership units"... Possibly this could be extended to "Command Units", which would allow all players to view stats and keep both examples consistent.)
Other than the dead scout image, it has been consistent since the start of the game. As soon as any in the hex can see the enemy, the enemy's stats are revealed.

As such, here are the Iron Giant Dwarves' Stats:
Spoiler: show
Iron Hammerer (x4) : [5 Combat / 8 Defense / 30 Hits. 8 {8} Move. Assault. Special: Heavy, Military]
Iron Spearman (x4) : [8 Combat / 4 Defense / 30 Hits. 8 {8} Move. Assault. Special: Heavy, Military]
Iron Captain (x2) : [5 Combat / 5 Defense / 14 Hits. 8 {8} Move. Assault. Special: Leadership, Military]
Iron Guard (x2) {Lvl 2} : [ 5 Combat / 5 Defense / 42 Hits. 8 {8} Move. Assault. Special: Heavy, Bodyguard, Military]
Iron Archer (x4) : [ 7 Combat / 3 Defense / 10 Hits. 8 {8} Move. Assault. Special: Well-Armed, Skilled, Military]

It's safe to assume that, if Anex & Sekan move forward and shoot, the scout will die this round, so feel free to have everyone move to new positions. Everyone (other than Anex/Sekan) will have a readied action, and I'll adjust the map accordingly.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Charlie's Mission #1

Postby Nnelg » Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:47 pm

MarbitChow wrote:It's safe to assume that, if Anex & Sekan move forward and shoot, the scout will die this round, so feel free to have everyone move to new positions. Everyone (other than Anex/Sekan) will have a readied action, and I'll adjust the map accordingly.

So, does this mean the enemy isn't going to come around the bend by themselves, after all? (Which is only to be expected, with us having a Shockamancer.)

(Also to be expected is that the enemy infantry outclasses ours. We shouldn't count on any unit we commit in the initial engagement surviving.)


So, in that case we need to get back in initial formation, then wait a bit... Except, this time on the north edge, like so:
Spoiler: show
Code: Select all
########
.##GN##.
.TgJG...
..gAZ...
...SB...
...gg...
...gg...
...gg...
#..##..#
########

Napier is at (2,2).


The plan, stacking, and everything else is the same. If, after waiting a few rounds, the enemy doesn't turn around the corner, we'll have to start creeping forward. Probably with our line extended, like so:
Spoiler: show
Code: Select all
##########
.##GN##..#
....GJg...
...AZg....
...SB.g...
.....g....
......g...
..g..g....
#Tg##..##.
##########


We'd creep forwards as one to the next alcove every Phase 6, until we spot the enemy. If we reach the (21,2)/(22,2) alcove without spotting them, we'll have to change formation to round the bend.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Charlie's Mission #1

Postby ETheBoyce » Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:54 pm

Wait, what is all this talk of moving forward? Why would we want to? Either the enemy will come forward on their own or they will retreat, in either case moving forward would simply put our units in harms way for no reason. We should stay back where we are and I will shoot the scout from my where I am (since Fire is still unlimited range) and then we should wait where we are.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Charlie's Mission #1

Postby Nnelg » Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:40 pm

ETheBoyce wrote:Wait, what is all this talk of moving forward? Why would we want to? Either the enemy will come forward on their own or they will retreat, in either case moving forward would simply put our units in harms way for no reason. We should stay back where we are and I will shoot the scout from my where I am (since Fire is still unlimited range) and then we should wait where we are.

And that's what we are doing. We wait for several rounds, long enough to come forward on their own if they want to.

But if they don't, they've either retreated, or are waiting around the corner. If they've retreated, moving forward will do us no harm. But if they haven't, creeping forwards carefully is the safest way to lure them into charging us... At which point we can fall back and reenact the original plan.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Charlie's Mission #1

Postby ETheBoyce » Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:03 pm

We don't need to bait them, they can either come forward or retreat, no need for us to move at all
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Re: Darkness Rising - Charlie's Mission #1

Postby Nnelg » Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:13 pm

ETheBoyce wrote:We don't need to bait them, they can either come forward or retreat, no need for us to move at all

Or, they can just stay still.

At least until they decide what to do. But we'd rather that they chose to come forward, correct? So, if we can convince them to charge, rather than retreat, without risking anything, shouldn't we?

And we aren't risking anything. If you'll notice, my orders say to stop before we'd be in any danger of getting charged in one round. Since the enemy won't be able to make it to our lines in one round, we can fall back and shoot at them each round, and they'd never be able to reach our lines. (Until we reach the edge of the battlefield, but by then we'll have had 3-4 rounds of shooting at them; the same as if we had just stood still.)
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Re: Darkness Rising - Charlie's Mission #1

Postby ETheBoyce » Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:27 pm

It doesn't matter whether or not they choose to come forward our job is to delay enemy reinforcements. Any advancements on our part removes our advantage as defenders, namely that we get first shot. If any of our melee troops get into LOS then enemy archery gets free shots at us damaging the Wards you cared so much about, advancing is, in fact, a terrible idea
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Re: Darkness Rising - Charlie's Mission #1

Postby CroverusRaven » Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:45 pm

I say don't move forward. We hold position and wait. They don't want to advance, fine, let them waste time. We can wait.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Charlie's Mission #1

Postby WhirdCheese » Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:43 am

I say we hold. If they move forward we kill them. If not its one less turn we have to wait. Or we'll have 16 more units to fight.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Charlie's Mission #1

Postby Nnelg » Sun Dec 23, 2012 1:22 am

ETheBoyce wrote:It doesn't matter whether or not they choose to come forward our job is to delay enemy reinforcements. Any advancements on our part removes our advantage as defenders, namely that we get first shot. If any of our melee troops get into LOS then enemy archery gets free shots at us damaging the Wards you cared so much about, advancing is, in fact, a terrible idea

If the enemy gets shots at us, we get shots at them. And Napier would be one of the first to see them, so we'd probably kill several.

I personally value Exp more than a few points of wards (or even a few gobwins' lives), but if the rest of you are so worried, we don't need to advance. :roll:


We should still reorder on the North side of the path, though...


PS:
Spoiler: show
I really do think you're letting an opportunity slip away from us.

If we move forward carefully, we can set it up so that the only advantage the enemy gets is the first ranged shot. But we know that's just 4 archers, so that's probably just a few gobwins' wards, maybe some hits on one of the bodyguards. They wouldn't kill anything unless they got very lucky. (And even if they did, it'll just be a gobwin.)

So, we'd be trading wards for Exp. That seems like a good trade to me.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Charlie's Mission #1

Postby CroverusRaven » Sun Dec 23, 2012 6:00 am

I'm confused, since we can't level during a fight, how are we sacrificing exp? We get the same exp waiting for them to round the corner and beating them that we would letting them get first shots and losing the wards. Getting closer to them seems like a bad deal. I'm gonna blow those archers up first then try wiping out the leadership and his bodyguard.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Charlie's Mission #1

Postby Werebiscuit » Sun Dec 23, 2012 6:04 am

MarbitChow wrote:It's safe to assume that, if Anex & Sekan move forward and shoot, the scout will die this round, so feel free to have everyone move to new positions. Everyone (other than Anex/Sekan) will have a readied action, and I'll adjust the map accordingly.


it's pretty safe to assume that either Sekan or Anex will one -shot the scout unless I've missed something. Do we want to give up both readied rounds ? from archers ? Especially since Anex goes before their entire force on her normal round. She can move shoot and return to position before they can react.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Charlie's Mission #1

Postby Nnelg » Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:37 am

CroverusRaven wrote:I'm confused, since we can't level during a fight, how are we sacrificing exp? We get the same exp waiting for them to round the corner and beating them that we would letting them get first shots and losing the wards.

That's assuming they're going to come around the corner. Basically, the enemy has three options right now:

A. Charge around the corner.
B. Retreat, leaving the way they came.
C. Wait around the corner, and see what we do.


Now, we want the enemy to choose A. That gives us the Exp we want. But they aren't guaranteed to do so. However, if they choose C, they're eventually going to commit to A or B unless we do something.

So, my suggestion is that we first wait a bit, giving the enemy a chance to choose A. But if they don't after a few Rounds, then we'll choose for them. By carefully moving up to where we can see them, but not so close that they can charge us, we can deal some damage (and therefore get some Exp) even if the enemy chooses B.


And as I explained, we can do this without putting ourselves in a vulnerable position should the enemy choose A. It may look vulnerable, which is good for us because it makes the enemy more likely to choose A, but if you think about it, it really isn't.

We can fall back 8 squares every turn, the same as the enemy can charge us, so our melee troops will be as untouchable as if they were at the far western end of the path. We can continue this until we hit the edge of the map, at which point we will have had as many rounds of shooting as if the enemy had charged us when we were standing still waiting.


Werebiscuit wrote:
MarbitChow wrote:It's safe to assume that, if Anex & Sekan move forward and shoot, the scout will die this round, so feel free to have everyone move to new positions. Everyone (other than Anex/Sekan) will have a readied action, and I'll adjust the map accordingly.
it's pretty safe to assume that either Sekan or Anex will one -shot the scout unless I've missed something. Do we want to give up both readied rounds ? from archers ? Especially since Anex goes before their entire force on her normal round. She can move shoot and return to position before they can react.

Yes, it's perfectly fine. I doubt the enemy is going to come around the bend now that they know we have a shockamancer, but if they do then one extra shot from Anex or Sekan isn't going to make any difference at all. (We'll slaughter them regardless...)



Marbit, since this argument's going to take a while either way, can we at least lock in the part we all agree on? (Waiting for a few Rounds; using the original setup and formation.)
Last edited by Nnelg on Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
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