Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby Nnelg » Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:45 pm

Meh, personally I'd think it'd be better just to make fire randomized among Squad members always, but put a restriction on how far stack members can get from each other before automatically unstacking.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby Werebiscuit » Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:42 am

Yeah...for a squad if individual units want to move in a different direction from 'the squad' then they unstack. If the squad splits into 2 or more different directions they become subgroups. A squad has a maximum length of 8 squares so units must be less than half that apart to be considered a unit ( more than 3 squares distant and they cannot be considered in a unit). Simples.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby MarbitChow » Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:34 am

I'm not going to have squad units automatically unstack just because they've moved apart from the squad, because they would then lose their leadership bonus, which unfairly penalizes Agile units like heck pups, which might be used to slip behind enemy lines at opportune moments. It's enough that the enemy can start targeting individual pups at that point, without forcing the pups to lose up to +7 Combat/Defense at the same time (assuming they're stacked w/ Tod).

I understand the argument that Fire is overpowered, but any auto-dropping from a stack is effectively a Leadership nerf, and is not going to happen in this rules update.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby MarbitChow » Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:37 am

Edited the Command Unit definition to explicitly state that all Player-controlled units are command units.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:19 am

Nnelg wrote:Have you considered adding a rule to say that you can't dump all your combat stats into one stat each level?


What's wrong with having Combat-obsessive archers?

--

On the topic of Melee vs Range (vs Magic- because if you want to talk overpowered, Magic needs to be mentioned). Correct me if I'm wrong, but the reason ancient and medieval armies used melee units at all was because ranged weapons were difficult to learn to use properly. Any dweeb can swing a stick, whereas the force that propels an arrow forward needs to come from the bowman's arms. Which means, contrary to fantasy depictions, it was the archers that were burlier on the field.

Come the age of gunpowder, when any dweeb can learn to fire a musket, tactics fairly rapidly changed to emphasize battles between ranged formations. Hold your cavalry charge, I'm not saying melee disappeared overnight- there's still bayonettes on rifles today, and any soldier worth their salt can handle themselves in a fist/knife-fight- but it's clear that range's where it's at.

I suppose one could make Archers more expensive to pop, but that doesn't help with players choosing (or not) to have a melee character. Another option is to include loads of missions that explicitly favor melee/reduce the ranged advantage. Dungeon crawlers are popular. Melee commandos, anyone?
The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby MarbitChow » Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:13 pm

The major revisions planned for the next rules release includes all the Underground stuff: dirtamancy, tunneling, etc. Ranged units will be at a severe disadvantage in underground scenarios. According to Erfworld canon, heavy units cannot enter the tunnels unless they're specialized for that (such as spidews). I hope that will help to bring some balance back to the hand-to-hand crowd, although there will probably be a number of scenarios played through before then.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby ETheBoyce » Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:47 pm

Question, can we pop Zed Fliers or Garrison Fliers?
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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby Nnelg » Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:26 pm

MarbitChow wrote:According to Erfworld canon, heavy units cannot enter the tunnels unless they're specialized for that (such as spidews).

Just one thing of note here: the canon definition of "heavy" varies significantly from our in-game definition. A closer analogue to in-comic "heavies" would be large units (as in, ones which take up multiple squares).

Hmm, perhaps Greater Golems should be sized 2x2, then (if they aren't already).
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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby MarbitChow » Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:38 pm

ETheBoyce wrote:Question, can we pop Zed Fliers or Garrison Fliers?
You can't pop Zed Fliers (since Zeds are units with unspent AP, and fliers don't get any AP), but you can pop Garrison Fliers.

Nnelg wrote:Just one thing of note here: the canon definition of "heavy" varies significantly from our in-game definition. A closer analogue to in-comic "heavies" would be large units (as in, ones which take up multiple squares).
Hmm, perhaps Greater Golems should be sized 2x2, then (if they aren't already).
Yeah, I already planned on making tunnels narrow, but Sizemore's Metal Golems were heavy, and had no issues in the tunnels. It was pretty much a given that it was going to be 2x2 and larger units that wouldn't fit in there.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby Nnelg » Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:46 pm

MarbitChow wrote:Yeah, I already planned on making tunnels narrow, but Sizemore's Metal Golems were heavy, and had no issues in the tunnels. It was pretty much a given that it was going to be 2x2 and larger units that wouldn't fit in there.

I wouldn't make them any narrower than 2 squares, though; otherwise we won't be able to have Sourmanders and Spidews. (Also, combat loses a lot of variety when only only 1 unit can directly attack the enemy.)

It'd be better just to say that units 2x2 or larger aren't allowed to enter the tunnel unless they have a special for it.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby WaterMonkey314 » Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:09 pm

Nnelg wrote:
MarbitChow wrote:Yeah, I already planned on making tunnels narrow, but Sizemore's Metal Golems were heavy, and had no issues in the tunnels. It was pretty much a given that it was going to be 2x2 and larger units that wouldn't fit in there.

I wouldn't make them any narrower than 2 squares, though; otherwise we won't be able to have Sourmanders and Spidews. (Also, combat loses a lot of variety when only only 1 unit can directly attack the enemy.)

It'd be better just to say that units 2x2 or larger aren't allowed to enter the tunnel unless they have a special for it.


Or just have periodic points where there exist no 2x2 paths, but then open them up into "caverns" with more space, perhaps interspersed with columns.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby Nnelg » Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:38 pm

WaterMonkey314 wrote:Or just have periodic points where there exist no 2x2 paths, but then open them up into "caverns" with more space, perhaps interspersed with columns.

That still wouldn't allow Sourmanders and Spidews to exist. But, the "caverns" do sound cool.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby Wild Card » Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:42 am

Question: Are the Parangon, Berseker and Guardian bonuses applied to the one who take the skills ? Or just to the same unit type in the stack ? (It feels to me it could go both ways).

Also, does Berseker replace the Well Armed bonus or they cumulative ?

So when I have Parangon, Well armed and Berseker, is my own bonus 4, 6, 7 or 9 ?
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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby MarbitChow » Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:14 am

Wild Card wrote:Question: Are the Parangon, Berseker and Guardian bonuses applied to the one who take the skills ? Or just to the same unit type in the stack ? (It feels to me it could go both ways).
Also, does Berseker replace the Well Armed bonus or they cumulative ?
So when I have Parangon, Well armed and Berseker, is my own bonus 4, 6, 7 or 9 ?
The Paragon/Berserker/Guardian bonuses do apply to the one who takes the skills. (He's in the stack and he's of the right unit type, after all.) All unnamed and Inspiration bonuses are cumulative, so total bonus is effectively +9 Combat / +1 Defense.
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