Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 055

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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 055

Postby Deuce » Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:37 am

The description of the city sounds decidedly Lovecraftian, not a direction I had expected, but nice and creepy.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 055

Postby jkosta » Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:52 am

vintermann wrote:
youngstormlord wrote:dirtamancer + croakamancer sans volcano equals tombstones
turnamancer + croakamancer equals turnamancy torture chamber
turnamancer + florist equals heroine flowers


This is in the comic, true.


Actually, it's not. Wanda's exact words are, "I had the idea for memorial stones while linked with him and Komatsu, and I learned enough Dirtamancy to create them afterwards." Emphasis added. There's a lot that youngstormlord is blithely attributing to trimancer link that's actually more a matter of the link being an inspiration. A psychadelic experience, as Oberon pointed out. While the glass coffin was created using a tri-link, Olive hasn't run out of flowers and Wanda hasn't stopped making tombstones.

The Caster disciplines seem more like D&D races to me than D&D classes, except that it's memetic rather than genetic. An elf is by-nature +1 Agility and -1 Discipline (or whatever), and a Dirtamancer is by-nature about Stuffamancy crossed with Erf axis. The link is a lot like cross-breeding. While within the link there's something special, afterwards what sticks in the mind is something like a half-elf. Your Croakamancer soul is etched by the experience of Dirtamancy; you're still immovably a Croakamancer, but you're more capable of seeing things the way a Dirtamancer would, and vice versa.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 055

Postby Mizzle » Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:39 pm

jkosta wrote:There's a lot that youngstormlord is blithely attributing to trimancer link that's actually more a matter of the link being an inspiration. A psychadelic experience, as Oberon pointed out. While the glass coffin was created using a tri-link, Olive hasn't run out of flowers and Wanda hasn't stopped making tombstones.

Wanda specifically says that Olive made the hero buds with Maxwell and Tina, not on her own afterwards, and I think they're too special to be anything but the result of a tri-link. There are loads of ways to explain why she hasn't run out:
-It's a garden, flowers make seeds, they can replenish themselves. Common sense IRL but may not apply in Erfworld mechanics.
-Olive can easily copy plants with just hippymancy once the initial hard bit of creating the species has been done.
-They are running out just slowly because they made loads and loads of them.
etc.

But yeah, the tombstones are nothing special and just an idea Wanda got from the link.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 055

Postby mmooneybsa » Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:50 pm

Not that I think this is the reference, but Maxwell reminds me a lot of Maxwell on the Cliff from Scry-ed.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 055

Postby joosy » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:18 pm

So.. Barton left some shoes which may or may not have been made in a tri-link. Also, they experimented with their bodies.. and Ms. Gale seems a bit upset at a scarecrow.. I would guess thats a reminder of Bart or perhaps the sad result of a trimancer link gone bad.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 055

Postby the_tick_rules » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:42 pm

So this expiramenting is why Wanda knows stuff about other schools I bet.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 055

Postby Archameades » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:44 pm

So it seems Judy hasn't come to terms about her inevitable future demise by the heroine buds, as Wanda has, and feels betrayed that her friend the scarecrow didn't warn her or prevent Olive from starting the addiction. I wonder who else Judy was talking about? The Lion?
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 055

Postby bladestorm » Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:21 pm

mmooneybsa wrote:Not that I think this is the reference, but Maxwell reminds me a lot of Maxwell on the Cliff from Scry-ed.

There's also Maxwell Smart, agent 86 from the Get Smart series. Maybe a tie-in of making other casters smarter during the link-up?
Duo Maxwell from GundamWing. Duo link?
Enrico Maxwell, a fanatical archbishop from Helsing who had odd motives, and got drunk with power, overstepped his bounds, and starting fighting for his own goals rather than the goals of the Vatican.
Maxwell Lord from the Justice League International, who had the ability to telepathically influence people. But only after like eight different retcons of his history and motives. Telepathic influence extends from simple charm abilities, to manipulating memories, to outright hijacking someone's mind. He was able to manipulate the entire Justice League at one point, even pushing the likes of Superman and Batman to do things outside their normal range of activities. He even attempted to do a really big push and mindwipe himself from existence of everyone on earth. On Smallville, he had the ability to extract memories from others.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 055

Postby bladestorm » Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:28 pm

Also, a dollamancer reference: John Barton Gruelle, creator of Raggedy Ann and Raggedy Andy.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 055

Postby Cantripmancer » Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:31 pm

Frosted wrote:The man who enables great thinking and has a substance issue?
Sounds like Maxwell House to me. I bet a hot dollar it turns out he limps too. Always energetic. Has a burro. The list goes on.

From the first reference, I really thought we were dealing with Maxwell Smart, but this actually sounds most on-target of any of the guesses so far based on this update's hints. Especially if you want to use the (Dr. Gregory) House aspect, thinking about him catalyzing his team of specialists to pull off extraordinary feats that otherwise wouldn't be possible/thought of.
vintermann wrote:What I'm a bit worried about story-wise is that three-caster links are cheapened a bit. When Stanley ordered it, it was supposed to be a brilliant but dangerous move- and it was, killing Misty eventually. Maybe Maxwell was master-class unlike adept-class Maggie, but still... when drunk?

I agree that they feel cheapened, but part of me wonders if a) that was part of Maxwell's power, that he was able to do so, and b) if they could only be attained through the power/relaxation/distraction of drugs/alcohol. The unusual element of Stanley's linkup then would have been sustaining it over a long period of time and/or achieving it in the first place without hero buds.
MattR wrote:I think youre spot on Remonis... as for fitting the timeframe, well we dont know how many turns Jillian has been captive for, let alone how long ago maxwell was lost... Me? Id put money on Maxwell being Charlie.

I still think Charlie is the Wizard that Judy let go instead of killing. Maxwell is a distinctly different character.
wrecan wrote:So I feel like an idiot for only just realizing that another Wizard of Oz parallel is that Olive is the Witch because the Wicked Witch was green, and "olive" is a shade of green.

I'm going to disagree here with no actual "proof" to point to, but as far as I'm concerned, Judy has/had the shoes, she has the broomstick...she's already killed the "wicked" witch. Olive is Glenda, the "Good" Witch...well, I guess she could possibly just be "the witch", but I really think we're at the equivalent point of the Wizard of Oz parallel where Dorothy has killed the wicked witch, returned to Oz, and exposed (dethroned) the Wizard. Only they didn't go back to Kansas by way of balloon in this version.

I also still think that the "Barton" reference is Clara Barton. She may not sound like a dollamancer in the traditional sense, but she was known as the "Angel of the Battlefield", established a response/support group, worked as a patent clerk...I think it's a good option. "Dolly Barton" is a cute concept, but then why wouldn't she just be referred to as "Parton, the dollamancer"? Do we have other examples of Rob altering his references like that?

So, does the Emerald City still stand in LisaB-time, or did Jillian and Wanda "drop the Ef-Baum" when they were done with Judy and Olive?

Preview Edit: Oooh, John Barton Gruelle. Nice research, bladestorm!! Sooo, did Barton create Holly Shortcake (who visually resembles Raggedy Ann)?
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 055

Postby Salem » Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:10 pm

Cantripmancer wrote:
vintermann wrote:What I'm a bit worried about story-wise is that three-caster links are cheapened a bit. When Stanley ordered it, it was supposed to be a brilliant but dangerous move- and it was, killing Misty eventually. Maybe Maxwell was master-class unlike adept-class Maggie, but still... when drunk?

I agree that they feel cheapened, but part of me wonders if a) that was part of Maxwell's power, that he was able to do so, and b) if they could only be attained through the power/relaxation/distraction of drugs/alcohol. The unusual element of Stanley's linkup then would have been sustaining it over a long period of time and/or achieving it in the first place without hero buds.

I definetly thought to myself that it was only possible because of the way the buds helped you "think outside of reality." I think that it's possible the drugs actually made the tri-mancer links safer, and able to go like deeper man. The danger in the tri-mancer link is the mental backlash maybe the drugs numbed it, or made it less likely because the participants were already outside of their frame of reference for reality?

Cantripmancer wrote:
wrecan wrote:So I feel like an idiot for only just realizing that another Wizard of Oz parallel is that Olive is the Witch because the Wicked Witch was green, and "olive" is a shade of green.

I'm going to disagree here with no actual "proof" to point to, but as far as I'm concerned, Judy has/had the shoes, she has the broomstick...she's already killed the "wicked" witch. Olive is Glenda, the "Good" Witch...well, I guess she could possibly just be "the witch", but I really think we're at the equivalent point of the Wizard of Oz parallel where Dorothy has killed the wicked witch, returned to Oz, and exposed (dethroned) the Wizard. Only they didn't go back to Kansas by way of balloon in this version.

I think olive is movie Glenda who well as everyone knows is a horrible horrible monster. It's also possible she's a new factor who came in and messed up Oz bad.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 055

Postby twhitt » Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:03 pm

Why should we think that Maxwell somehow made the link-ups safe? Dead now are Tina, Barton, Maya, Komatsu, Maxwell himself and unnamed "others," which assumes at least two more. Known to have survived are Wanda and... Olive. That's it, and Wanda we know to have fate. It's completely fair to assume that these link-ups were absolutely not safe, and Maxwell performed them in spite of that fact. "Maxwell liked to link up with other casters while intoxicated." It sounds to me like Maxwell was a bit of a drunk driver, recklessly performing dangerous link-ups to which most of the casters of his side eventually succumbed. Have we even heard of another side with seven dead casters?
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 055

Postby wrecan » Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:37 pm

Agreed, and it seems to have driven Maxwell insane (another side effect of trimancer linkups) before he died. As far as we know, Olive's egomania, paranoia, and sociopathy stem from that as well. And Wanda seems pretty effed up compared to her relatively innocent Firebaugh days.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 055

Postby Whispri » Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:43 pm

wrecan wrote:Agreed, and it seems to have driven Maxwell insane (another side effect of trimancer linkups) before he died. As far as we know, Olive's egomania, paranoia, and sociopathy stem from that as well. And Wanda seems pretty effed up compared to her relatively innocent Firebaugh days.

Well in Wanda's case, she's had everything she loved destroyed, has been brutally tortured (without the box), was forcibly addicted to a horrible drug and has had to destroy many Sides with whom she had no quarrel. And that's just the stuff we know about.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 055

Postby Azukar » Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:53 pm

I wonder, then, how Wanda and Jillian will be cured of their Heroine Bud addiction? Do you think a Healomancer will use some kind of "Method One" to fix them? :D
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 055

Postby erutan20 » Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:21 am

In regards to wanda learning dirtamancy, i think that you just have to learn it. You will not be as good as someone casting in their natural casting school obviously, but you can cast outside of your natural school. I think that, as others have said, the tri-links can give u an idea on how to do things you would not have thought of before but after the link is over, u still have to learn about the school of casting so that you can bring the idea to life. My question is, these other casters, how did they die? In battle, tri-link victums, or some other way? How did they become haffton units in the first place? Captured, popped, bought from the magic kingdom?
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 055

Postby Oberon » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:38 am

jkosta wrote:The Caster disciplines seem more like D&D races to me than D&D classes, except that it's memetic rather than genetic. An elf is by-nature +1 Agility and -1 Discipline (or whatever), and a Dirtamancer is by-nature about Stuffamancy crossed with Erf axis. The link is a lot like cross-breeding. While within the link there's something special, afterwards what sticks in the mind is something like a half-elf. Your Croakamancer soul is etched by the experience of Dirtamancy; you're still immovably a Croakamancer, but you're more capable of seeing things the way a Dirtamancer would, and vice versa.
This is belied by Wanda stating that she is able to use magics from many disciplines. She just isn't interested in them.
bladestorm wrote:
mmooneybsa wrote:Not that I think this is the reference, but Maxwell reminds me a lot of Maxwell on the Cliff from Scry-ed.
There's also Maxwell Smart [...] Duo Maxwell from GundamWing. [...] Enrico Maxwell, a fanatical archbishop from Helsing who had odd motives, and got drunk with power, overstepped his bounds, and starting fighting for his own goals rather than the goals of the Vatican.
Maxwell Lord from the Justice League International, who had the ability to telepathically influence people.
The author uses multiple references. This much has been established in the the past. But that doesn't mean that all possible references apply. The name Maxwell needn't evoke much other than what the author intended.
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Zeroberon wrote:So we know with 100% certainty that THIS IS HOW TRI-LINKS WORK, PERIOD END OF STORY.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 055

Postby twhitt » Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:33 am

Azukar wrote:I wonder, then, how Wanda and Jillian will be cured of their Heroine Bud addiction? Do you think a Healomancer will use some kind of "Method One" to fix them? :D
The heroine buds were the method that successfully turned Wanda, so we know she'd been addicted to them for some time. She functioned more-or-less well without them in her appearance in the graveyard. It seems that she's doing worse at the moment, but we don't know why; we only know that the crown prevents the heroine buds from being any use to her. I'm assuming that, if you can somehow restrict access to them, then the cravings dissipate over time until it's effectively no problem. Destroy the Olive Garden and the problem simply goes away, as long as you haven't already lethally overdosed on them. There's no reason to expect a magical solution here; once Haffaton is destroyed, Wanda and Jillian will simply recover.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 055

Postby youngstormlord » Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:37 am

Cantripmancer wrote:
Frosted wrote:The man who enables great thinking and has a substance issue?
Sounds like Maxwell House to me. I bet a hot dollar it turns out he limps too. Always energetic. Has a burro. The list goes on.

From the first reference, I really thought we were dealing with Maxwell Smart, but this actually sounds most on-target of any of the guesses so far based on this update's hints. Especially if you want to use the (Dr. Gregory) House aspect, thinking about him catalyzing his team of specialists to pull off extraordinary feats that otherwise wouldn't be possible/thought of.
vintermann wrote:What I'm a bit worried about story-wise is that three-caster links are cheapened a bit. When Stanley ordered it, it was supposed to be a brilliant but dangerous move- and it was, killing Misty eventually. Maybe Maxwell was master-class unlike adept-class Maggie, but still... when drunk?

I agree that they feel cheapened, but part of me wonders if a) that was part of Maxwell's power, that he was able to do so, and b) if they could only be attained through the power/relaxation/distraction of drugs/alcohol. The unusual element of Stanley's linkup then would have been sustaining it over a long period of time and/or achieving it in the first place without hero buds.
MattR wrote:I think youre spot on Remonis... as for fitting the timeframe, well we dont know how many turns Jillian has been captive for, let alone how long ago maxwell was lost... Me? Id put money on Maxwell being Charlie.

I still think Charlie is the Wizard that Judy let go instead of killing. Maxwell is a distinctly different character.
wrecan wrote:So I feel like an idiot for only just realizing that another Wizard of Oz parallel is that Olive is the Witch because the Wicked Witch was green, and "olive" is a shade of green.

I'm going to disagree here with no actual "proof" to point to, but as far as I'm concerned, Judy has/had the shoes, she has the broomstick...she's already killed the "wicked" witch. Olive is Glenda, the "Good" Witch...well, I guess she could possibly just be "the witch", but I really think we're at the equivalent point of the Wizard of Oz parallel where Dorothy has killed the wicked witch, returned to Oz, and exposed (dethroned) the Wizard. Only they didn't go back to Kansas by way of balloon in this version.


Sort of like this cracked article http://www.cracked.com/article_18881_5-reasons-greatest-movie-villain-ever-good-witch.html. Olive is a good witch but also a vilain.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 055

Postby mortissimus » Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:45 am

So the shoes - ruby or silver - will they take the wearer wherever he or she wants to go?
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