Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

by **BLANDCorporatio** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:17 pm

The plan outlined by Exate works for me.

by **Exate** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:43 pm

Unfortunately, it doesn't work for me anymore. With ~850 points of Ward hits no longer existent due to not being able to be placed on uncroaked (and presumably not on golems either), the odds of Bill and Vinny being able to push through a successful assault on Logan's Run effectively solo have fallen drastically- even if the place doesn't have significant numbers of new units or incoming reinforcement.

There's no longer a point in sending Junetta that way; she can go with the Scarlet Hills bunch instead, which will help them a bit, but we'll still need to transfer more units to Logan's Run to make it work. The Heck Pups and a stack of Warriors under Rolf, maybe. That could help a lot with taking on difficult targets and probably wouldn't weaken the Scarlet Hills assault overly- that should mostly be resolved using ranged combat unless something goes quite wrong, and with two that much Healmancy on hand our archers should last quite a while. It might still work-ish. Logan's Run will have issues charging into the teeth of those archers. Maybe transfer one of the 2nd-level warlords there, too.

by **ETheBoyce** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:44 pm

I agree with the plan for the most part, except I don't think we should risk both of our Elves

by **Nnelg** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:44 pm

BLANDCorporatio wrote:The plan outlined by Exate works for me.

Well, it doesn't for me. It stretches our forces far too thin. Remember, the elves have their own scouts, and have a chance to react. They could easily send reinforcements to Logan's Run to wipe out our attackers. We need to concentrate on just two missions, whichever two we choose.

Exate wrote:Unfortunately, I can't support this. There's just no point in spending ten turns of Bill's time (not to mention others') and the massive risk inherent in walking right up to a high-level enemy city on anything less than taking it for our own... and we don't have the forces to do that at the moment. Scarlet Hills I can back because the potential reward justifies the increase in risk; the potential reward from this does not. It just ties up a massive blob of our best units in a situation where they can't attack without being slaughtered and where the enemy has vastly superior intelligence and lines of supply.

But there is a point. We need to know what's at Rainbow Springs, and raiding it will tell us that. I've already listed several other secondary objectives, too. And we can attack it: if we do it right, only our uncroaked units will be slaughtered. (And they were going to dust, anyways. This way, they take some living elves with them.)

And the attack force won't be overrun easily, unless the elves have amassed a much larger army than the one that sieged Dis City in just 8 Turns.

Anyways, here's a more specific stacking order for the Rainbow Springs probe team: (We do have enough units for it.)

Spoiler: show

EDIT:

ETheBoyce wrote:I agree with the plan for the most part, except I don't think we should risk both of our Elves

We won't be risking them any more than we're risking Tod, Coil, et al. since they've got bodyguards. Also, since they can't crew Rams they wouldn't have much to do in the other group.

Oh, by the way, we don't have to settle on this second group raiding Rainbow Springs; we could send it to Scarlet Hills or somewhere else instead.

by **ETheBoyce** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:26 pm

I was never agreeing to sacrificing our military resources to scout, I was agreeing with Exate's plan since his is the sensible one.

Further your stacks are nonsensical, why aren't we trying to optimize the effectiveness of our units? Bodyguards don't need to be in the same stack as the unit they are guarding, at least not from the rules under Bodyguard so they don't need to be in Tod or Wanderus's stacks. Tod's stack should be: Tod, Will, Cupid, Coil, Coil's Bad Ass, and then either another caster and his mount or archers; Coil won't benefit from the Combat bonus if he's Sieging, but his mount will benefit from Tod's Def bonus, giving it an effective Defense of around 33.

by **Exate** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:13 pm

Nnelg wrote:It stretches our forces far too thin. Remember, the elves have their own scouts, and have a chance to react. They could easily send reinforcements to Logan's Run to wipe out our attackers. We need to concentrate on just two missions, whichever two we choose.

The plan I proposed does concentrate on two missions. Specifically, it concentrates on attacking Logan's Run and attacking Scarlet Hills. Ten units (1 Warlord, 3 Warriors, 2 Spearmen, 3 Archers, 1 Altruistic Elf) which might have been used on those missions are diverted to secondary objectives. No other useful units which might have participated in either mission are used on anything but those missions. Are you arguing that those ten units are significant enough to make the difference between victory and defeat here? In which battle? What critical necessary niche will those units fill?

I'm not about to claim that an extra stack and change isn't always useful, but I don't think diverting a few units to show respect and courtesy for the side that just gave us a present large enough to upgrade one of our cities, and thereby put our treasury for quite a few of the coming turns firmly into the black, is something that we should hesitate to do.

Nnelg wrote:But there is a point. We need to know what's at Rainbow Springs, and raiding it will tell us that. I've already listed several other secondary objectives, too.

I know there's a point. What I said was:

Exate wrote:There's just no point in spending [stuff] on anything less than taking [Rainbow Springs] for our own

The points of "we need recon", "maybe we'll kill someone", "we'll get in their way", "we'll confuse them", and "we can curse our disposable units before they die" are well made. They are simply not good enough, in my opinion, to justify moving against Rainbow Springs without the required forces for and explicit intent of conquering it entirely.

Anyway, revised order of battle. Please review and comment.

Logan's Run
-3 Casters
-3 Warlords
-7 Warriors (note, 3 can be upgraded to make all 7 heavies)
-9+ Golems (~20 expected)
-9+ Skeletal Archers (Or possibly ~34 Minor Uncroaked)
-4 Naughty Kitties
-4 Brickabat Swarms
-1 Gobwin Artisan
-1+ Ram(s) (deliver en route via Naughty Kitty haul)
This group will hopefully have enough units and sheer power to do a straightforward assault- take the gate even while under fire, then systematically slaughter everyone inside. It will likely take a bit of tricky generalship to arrange, but between the swarm of caster-spawned units, heavy infantry stack, and Healmancer supporting the heavy infantry stack while remaining shielded by Brickabats, we should be all right. Flying opponents would be serious trouble, however, and I remain open to ideas on how to deal with them (best I have right now is "use skeleton archers instead of minor uncroaked", which isn't ideal as it doesn't really play to Bill's strengths in my opinion).

Spoiler: show

Escort Mission
-1 Warlord
-2 Warriors
-2 Spearmen
-2 Archers
-1 Altruist Elf
This group accompanies the Scarlet Hills group until such time as it needs to break off and escort the Ixians. It has a good mix of capabilities in case of trouble, including solid leadership, ranged attacks, and healing capabilities, but it's held to a single stack for obvious reasons (we don't exactly have a lot of resources to spare).

Spoiler: show

Scarlet Hills
-4 Casters
-4 Warlords
-5 Warriors (note, all can be upgraded to dancing beefy well-protected bodyguards)
-9 Spearmen
-2 Dark Fliers
-13 Archers
-1 Altruist Elf
-1 Bad Ass
-3 Naughty Kitties
-2 Heck Pups
-1 Gobwin Artisan
I worry a little about this one with the stack of infantry heavies gone, but with our Chief Warlord and almost all our ranged assets in on the action I think we'll be fine. Also, if level 3 is at 15 XP (and I believe it is) then we'll have eight level 3 spearmen prior to arrival- and that certainly counts for something.

Spoiler: show

Dis City Garrison
-1 Gobwin Artisan
I really just have nothing better to do with this guy.

Spoiler: show

Charlie's Mercenaries
-2 Warriors
-2 Archers
-1 Spearman
-Unknown Others (anyone bored, preferably 1 warlord)
Remains a random catchall job for units which mostly otherwise don't exist or would have trouble catching up with the main body of our forces. We should have someone generate a warlord to take charge of our group lest they all get slaughtered without a command element.

Spoiler: show

by **WaterMonkey314** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:42 pm

I see that your proposed order of battle includes 3 NKs for Scarlet Hills, presumably for the 3 casters - if this is correct, can Triage go ahead and Imprint one of the kitties? (I'd also like to name it Healo Kitty if no one objects to the horrid pun.

)

by **ETheBoyce** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:44 pm

We could give one of the Warriors going to Scarlet Hill Leadership and send them with the mercs

by **Nnelg** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:27 pm

Actually, Exate, I was more worried about losing the ten units that would be sent on the Escort mission without adequate backup... :roll:

I think you're all forgetting something important: Armolad is still at large. And I can guarantee you that she will not sit idly by when we attack.

If I were in her shoes, and I got scouting reports that large armies were marching on both Logan's Run and Scarlet Hills, it would be simple to deduce that Dis City had been left unguarded. I would abandon the two low-level cities to their fate, and on the Turn before our (Tenebris') attacks went off I'd launch every unit I had with Move 12+ at Dis City (including fresh units popped as soon as the reports came in). Just Armolad and the Fairies we saw alone would slaughter your proposed Garrison (and the extra forces Armolad would have popped since then could deal with any reinforcements we rushed in).

ETheBoyce wrote:I was never agreeing to sacrificing our military resources to scout, I was agreeing with Exate's plan since his is the sensible one.

Further your stacks are nonsensical, why aren't we trying to optimize the effectiveness of our units? Bodyguards don't need to be in the same stack as the unit they are guarding, at least not from the rules under Bodyguard so they don't need to be in Tod or Wanderus's stacks. Tod's stack should be: Tod, Will, Cupid, Coil, Coil's Bad Ass, and then either another caster and his mount or archers; Coil won't benefit from the Combat bonus if he's Sieging, but his mount will benefit from Tod's Def bonus, giving it an effective Defense of around 33.

Ok then, sure if you want to let every archer on the battlefield target you personally, go ahead. :roll:

And I am trying to optimize the effectiveness of our units:

I started by mixing our archers 50-50 with screening infantry (exactly what is not set yet). Now, one of the archers in one of these two stacks should be Will, since we'd want to make use of his Paragon Inspiration bonus. One of the infantry in each stack should have Leadership, and since the archers will be doing most of the killing we should use our best two. Now, since our archers will probably be the main target of the enemy, putting an Alt Elf in each should help keep them from croaking. Now, we're left with two generic infantry... Might as well be bodyguards. (If we had more infantry, the bodyguards could be seperated- although this allows the enemy to single them out with archery, and once they're dead we'll have to withdraw the stack or risk the Alt Elf.)

As for Coil, you make a valid point for giving him Leadership bonuses; however, unless we ground Coil's Bad Ass or acquire a Flier with Leadership, either Coil or the Leader will be an open target for enemy archery.

Also, you seem to be focusing on having just a few ultra-powerful units. I'd think it'd be more efficient to spread out bonuses over a larger (yet still small) group.

by **bob the 6th** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:07 am

Just curious why are you sending Rudy with the zerg rush group? He is an archer warlord, so I would be suspect of a plan were he has no other ranged attack units...
As oposed to the other group with 12 archers and no archer leadership. Admittedly the +2 isn't much, but I would think it would be good to at least use it.

by **Nnelg** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:58 am

bob the 6th wrote:Just curious why are you sending Rudy with the zerg rush group? He is an archer warlord, so I would be suspect of a plan were he has no other ranged attack units...
As oposed to the other group with 12 archers and no archer leadership. Admittedly the +2 isn't much, but I would think it would be good to at least use it.

Because Exate's just throwing units around, as opposed to effective squads.

In my plan, Rudy would be leading a stack of 7 of the fresh Lvl. 1 archers in the assault of Logan's Run.

by **Nnelg** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:23 am

If we try to do everything, then we'll be overextending ourselves. And then we're just begging to be outmaneuvered, which is something we cannot afford to let happen. The enemy isn't stupid. If they see an opening, they'll take it.

We must not let them take control of the strategic initiative! Because once they do, this war is lost. They will be able to overwhelm us with superior numbers, eventually battering us into submission.

The raid on Rainbow Springs is not just a probe, but the start of a siege. A real siege, not what we've been erroneously calling a "siege" (which is really a storm). The elves will naturally send the bulk of their reinforcements to defend it, but we shall turn that city into a meat grinder. The elves will most likely forget about going on the offensive, and turtle in Rainbow Springs... This is what we want to happen.

Meanwhile, while the Elves are engrossed with fortifying their precious city, we shall take Logan's Run and then (maybe) (EDIT: probably not) Scarlet Hills (with accompanying mine). These gains will give us the funds we need to fight the elves on more even terms numbers-wise. Then we bring down the hammer on Rainbow Springs, deploying our entire army in one decisive action that will crack the city's defences like an egg.

At that point, the elves will be greatly weakened again, and the options open to us are numerous.

EDIT:
Bill, at least, should be enthusiastic about this plan. Instead of having to waste so much juice keeping a few decaying skeletons intact, he can spend it on creating fresh uncroaked in the middle of a battle, to be immediately consumed in the process of making more bodies. We'd probably rush in zed archers at the rate of 4 a turn, to be made into new skeletons when they inevitably perish. Skeletons which won't suffer from extended decay before they see battle.

The force that takes Logan's Run will collect as many bodies as possible in Bone Carts, and head towards Rainbow Springs (ETA Turn ~24-25). For these half-dozen or so Turns, the force at Rainbow Springs will keep the elves occupied, and soften them up as much as they can. When the Logan's Run taskforce arrives, we'll have enough to overwhelm the city, and take it.

As for the Escort mission, I think sending an escort would actually be a bad thing. Remember, the elves currently have a truce with the Ixians. But if they see Tenebrisians with an Ixian envoy, they'll immediately attack. So the Ixians would actually be in more danger if we send them an armed escort.

Besides, it would be better to lose face with the Ixians than to lose Yuri. As long as we retain the latter, we can deal with the former. But if we send Yuri in an escort, but the mission fails and he is croaked... Then we can pretty much kiss that alliance opportunity goodbye (for a while, at least).

EDIT 2:
If we were to go with Exate's plan instead...

We risk a lot. We risk the elves charging directly from Rainbow Springs to Dis City, we risk Armolad rallying the defence of Logan's Run, and wiping out the assault force there, we risk Yuri to an ambush. And what do we gain from it? Not much. We'd gain Scarlet Hills, but is that worth losing Dis City?

Also, the forces he presents aren't balanced. It appears as if he's just throwing units at each task, with little concern for what they'll do or how they'll stack. If we do go with his plan, we'd have to rebalance everything first.

by **Nnelg** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:11 am

Since Exate's already posted a unit distribution, I'll go ahead and make one up too:

Logan's Run Task Force:

Spoiler: show

Rainbow Springs Task Force:

Spoiler: show

There. I think that's every one of our non-garrison units (that isn't predesignated as mercenary) accounted for. I grouped them into how I expect them to stack, although there's no reason they couldn't stack differently. (I tried to strike a balance between getting as many of our high-power units under good Leadership as possible, while not exposing too many people to enemy fire.) The casters in the Rainbow Springs Task Force will be protected by Bodyguards (we've got plenty of units with banked AP that could take it).

Also, Marbit, go ahead and put a secondary character for me up with the Mercs by the name of "Jäger" (or Jaeger, if you prefer). I'll figure out additional details later, but a tentative build is Spearman with Leadership.

EDIT:
So then, the Mercenary group would be the following:

Spoiler: show

by **Werebiscuit** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:26 am

Couple of points to note.

1./ We only have 3 brickbat swarms available as Creperum has requested one, I believe.
2./ Why are we taking wandreus ( our regent) out of Dis ? shouldn't we be garrisoning him there ? ( to provide leadership to garrison units and 10% production boost that's 1920 schmuckers in the time it takes to get to Logans Run and back - EVEN MORE IF WE DO NOT HAVE A MANAGER TO REPLACE HIM we lose an additional 4800 schmuckers ...thats 6720 in total !)

by **Nnelg** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:09 am

Werebiscuit wrote:1./ We only have 3 brickbat swarms available as Creperum has requested one, I believe.

Noted. (In my plan, I expect all three to guard Bill, since he's the only caster who can't have bodyguards in his unit... However, it might be better to use bodyguards from outside his Squad, and have the brickbats around Coil instead...)

2./ Why are we taking wandreus ( our regent) out of Dis ? shouldn't we be garrisoning him there ? ( to provide leadership to garrison units and 10% production boost that's 1920 schmuckers in the time it takes to get to Logans Run and back - EVEN MORE IF WE DO NOT HAVE A MANAGER TO REPLACE HIM we lose an additional 4800 schmuckers ...thats 6720 in total !)

Because Reginald, the garrison commander, is going to take Regent.

by **MarbitChow** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:34 am

Note that Tod suggested getting Wandereus to Level 4, so that he could improve on his Regent skills by taking Comptroller and Logistician, which is why the assumption has been that he's going to Logan Run.

by **Werebiscuit** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:17 am

Nnelg wrote: Because Reginald, the garrison commander, is going to take Regent.

If he Is going to take it . He'd better take it before turn 13 then...or we'll be down 1120 per turn.

I'm not sure how much XP Wandrerus expects to earn from attacking logans run...but I doubt it's enough to earn him level 5. Do we want him stuck in a level 1 city ?

by **MarbitChow** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:23 am

Werebiscuit wrote:I'm not sure how much XP Wandrerus expects to earn from attacking logans run...but I doubt it's enough to earn him level 5. Do we want him stuck in a level 1 city ?

He's banking 1 AP currently. He only needs to hit Level 4 to take both, at which point (I assume) he'll be 'retired' to manage Tenebris.

Also (PLUG): if we could finalize the Charlie mission and get that started while the Logan Run, etc. tactics are finalized, we can start play-testing the new squad rules before we expose the main characters to them...

by **WaterMonkey314** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:39 am

MarbitChow wrote:
Werebiscuit wrote:I'm not sure how much XP Wandrerus expects to earn from attacking logans run...but I doubt it's enough to earn him level 5. Do we want him stuck in a level 1 city ?
He's banking 1 AP currently. He only needs to hit Level 4 to take both, at which point (I assume) he'll be 'retired' to manage Tenebris.

Also (PLUG): if we could finalize the Charlie mission and get that started while the Logan Run, etc. tactics are finalized, we can start play-testing the new squad rules before we expose the main characters to them...

I like this, given that I don't think there's much disagreement on goes with Charlie.

by **MarbitChow** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:53 am

Note that adding additional Gobwins to the Charlie scenario might earn more shmuckers, and there's no requirement that you send a single stack. Your units might get mixed into other squads that are also going.

Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

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