Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 054

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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 054

Postby joosy » Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:02 pm

sheepfly wrote: How would turning Jillian enable her to croak Judy? Would it not, in fact, make it much more difficult, and hence unfavorable to Olive's chances of becoming ruler supreme rather than mere puppeteer?

I agree that Olive is trying to manipulate the bit of Predictomancy in her favor. There are two Predictions here: 1) that an important Warlady will be bound to Wanda and 2) that Warlady will croak the ruler of Haffaton. By turning Jillian that will fulfill the first part. A turned unit typically has low Loyalty and not enough of a sense of Duty to prevent her from croaking Lady Dorothy. It is greatest in Chief Warlords according to Parson's Klog. That would probably explain why most heirs are made Chief Warlord so that their Duty will prevent them from an outright attack. I would venture that Olive is both chief caster, chief warlord and heir designate.

I believe that Predictamancy will come true twice - that Jillian will kill both Dorothy and Olive. Since they are in a city (the capitol supposedly) Wanda can go 'neutral' or hide in the Magic Kingdom and then turn to FAQ when Jillian clams the kingdom in Faq's name. Then they raze all of the cities for the schmuckers and return back to FAQ to hide amidst the confusion.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 054

Postby Man in the Mists » Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:31 pm

A bit of wild predictamancy here, but I wonder if Wanda's about to bring the Erfworld equivalent of voodoo dolls into play.

Another bit: Anyone want to bet that if there is anyone that Olive wishes was still around, it would be Komatsu? I can easily see a Florist+Dirtamancer combination being able to come up with some scary things. Like, say, a field of highly addicting flowers.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 054

Postby Urf » Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:05 pm

I think Maxwell was trimancering Wanda with all the other casters in Haffaton, creating the glass box, the mannequin spy, etc etc. That constant immersion is probably why Wanda is adept at other disciplines.

I wonder why the casters all died.

Could the girls score funding somehow in the Garden? Enough to get both women's upkeep to FAQ?
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 054

Postby MonteCristo » Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:38 pm

(name here) wrote:Interesting. Wanda says taking Faq was easy, and was confused when Jillian mentioned casters. I wonder if Jack pulled off some massive and elaborate foolamancy to send Haffaton to attack the wrong Side entirely. Certainly Faq could have made a fight of it with their casters despite the anemic defense forces. Plus, Banhammer was planning to stay behind but he's still alive.


Eh, its seems more likely that their lookamancy saw haffaton coming soon enough that they were able to send all the casters to the magic kingdom while Banhammer escaped by gwiffen. They basically gave up the cities. Also Jillian has lost track of how much time has past since her recapture; Its possible that Banhammer managed to capture a capitol to make for a temporary HQ, so that Haffaton could take Faq as predicted.

We do know that Olive managed to find some Faq flowers... most likely that would mean she picked them up from Faq itself (though its possible that her magic might allow her to copy any flower she's seen thus was able to recreate them or something)
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 054

Postby Jinren » Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:42 pm

Probably seeing something that isn't there, but I cannot help but think of this:

Sir Arthur Stanley Eddington wrote:The law that entropy always increases holds, I think, the supreme position among the laws of Nature. If someone points out to you that your pet theory of the universe is in disagreement with Maxwell's equations — then so much the worse for Maxwell's equations. If it is found to be contradicted by observation — well, these experimentalists do bungle things sometimes. But if your theory is found to be against the second law of thermodynamics I can give you no hope; there is nothing for it but to collapse in deepest humiliation.


Haffaton is doomed by nature.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 054

Postby multilis » Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:57 pm

If one believes in fate, and current ruler dies by hand of someone other than Jill, then Jill is fated to kill the *next* ruler. If no heir named then side is destroyed and everyone outside capital disappears, and guys in capital are locked in stasis until a side comes to rescue them and reclaim whatever is valuable.

So Wanda and Jill can defeat the mighty side by themselves, or with help of Dorothy and those who think like Dorothy. A hippymancer who uses drugs as horrible torture way to turn others, and gives out crown of thorns may have lots of Dorothy's wanting to bring side down. Without Maxwell to hold things together and use magic if needed to enforce loyalty... more threat of rebellion.

We already know that TV had big rebel problem including from former sons. Here we have a rebellion/hatred so deep that destroying own side is probably seen as good by Dorothy the ruler and who knows how many others. Dorothy could simply walk through the portal to magic kingdom and if everyone knows the prophesy that may be enough to trigger a rebellion. (If you "know" you will win, much more likely to revolt against a hated ruler)
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 054

Postby DoctorJest » Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:40 am

Cantripmancer wrote:Barton the Dollamancer...Clara Barton, founder of the American Red Cross?"


Not sure how that fits. I'm pretty sure it's a reference to Barton Dollhouses.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 054

Postby Infidel » Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:16 am

I find the duty information more intriguing than the predictamancy. Lets assume predictamancy is always true.

Olive is duty bound to protect her ruler.
Olive knows Jillian will kill Judy.

Should be a done deal--kill Jillian and remove the threat, but the kicker seems to be.

Olive insists on turning Jillian.
Turning Jillian would help the side and protect Judy.

So this is sort of like the laws of robotics in motion. When there is a conflict with two contradictory means to meet duty, someone can act according to their own will, but only so far as the conflict exists, even if the conflict is created for this specific purpose. Olive cant encourage Jillian to hurry up and kill Judy, and she also has Jillian under hard and soft controls. So her duty is still being performed to the best of her ability. She is not allowing for the opportunity for Jillian to do her fated action. So her duty is technically being done for everything under her control.

Her push to force Jillian to turn is ostensibly to get Jillian to turn before she has the opportunity to hurt the ruler. Again technically correct. But in Olive's mind she has the prediction that at some point Jillian will evade Olive's controls despite her efforts to the contrary. So the real goal is to motivate Jillian to act. And the reason Olive "likes" Jillian, because she has shown herself able to think creatively to evade constraints. Which is good because Olive can't deliberately provide openings due to duty, she has to rely on Jillian's resourcefulness. Wanda, Jillian's guard, is there both as hard control, in case Jillian stops being incapacitated, and because Jillian has already shown herself able to escape from Wanda. Wanda is also known to be disaffected and I'm sure this played into the decision to have her guard Jillian as well.

So the same grey area that frustrates people about predictamancy is also the means by which duty bound individuals can use it for their own ends. Since predicamancy is unclear, the world does not force duty bound warlords to react based on predictamancy. So a warlord doesn't need to treat a predicted threat any differently than an unpredicted one; duty applies to the threat presented.

Also, there doesn't seem to be a learning curve to duty. Someone who failed at a task before can be assigned the same task again, perhaps in the hope they will fail again. Maybe a warlord could recruit or promote bodyguards that failed to save their previous warlords, and assign them to guard the ruler.

It also makes the Heroine bud a bit more pointed a message. "Hurry up and kill the evil overlady already, Ms. Heroine"

It is not clear yet which is more a factor here for a warlord to exert free will to the extent of conspiring against a ruler: The ability to ignore predicted threats, or the need for conflicting duty.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 054

Postby effataigus » Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:46 am

I'm guessing Charlie directs the Faq flying forces to Efdup, Banhammer (probably personally... by lecturing her to death) kills Judy, then Jillian kills Olive... Wanda, perhaps willingly, returns with Faq.

Also, predictamancy just makes my eyes glaze over. I have a lot of sympathy for Wanda's unfortunate Dad.

Flowers&DeathSkulls wrote:Not necessarily. She could have been in a duo-caster link with Tina Turner. Just like Misty and Sizemore linking up with no bad side effects, Wanda could have linked with Tina and been perfectly fine. It's the tri-caster link that is so dangerous. And remember, Misty and Sizemore could not remember how to do anything from the link-up, so it fits. Could be a tri-caster, though.

Recall that every linkup has to have a thinkamancer, so Wanda cannot be in a duo link with anyone other than a thinkamancer. T'was Maggie the thinkamancer and Sizemore rather than Misty the lookamancer and Sizemore. I'm thinking the point of that bit of this update was to say that Wanda can now cast a little bit of every discipline... i.e. when she made the box she was casting as a turnamancer... somewhat incompetently, apparently, but what do you want from a croakamancer? Not the only read possible, of course.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 054

Postby fjolnir » Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:47 am

The turnamancer provided the aspects of the box that makes it conducive to turning while the croakamancer allows the user to see the physical status of the subject in the box, where physical access is at a minimum.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 054

Postby Orzel » Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:09 pm

I'm beginning to think the titans don't like ides to have more than 4 casters. It's game is rigged to get your side 3 of them.... then send crap your way to keep you at 2-4 casters.

Anyone think many of those lost casters aren't of Haffaton origin. Also notice the lack of talk about warlords, captured, popped, or killed.

Something is up with that side.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 054

Postby effataigus » Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:52 pm

Orzel wrote:I'm beginning to think the titans don't like ides to have more than 4 casters. It's game is rigged to get your side 3 of them.... then send crap your way to keep you at 2-4 casters.

Anyone think many of those lost casters aren't of Haffaton origin.
I dunno... here Faq seems to have 8ish casters:

http://www.erfworld.com/2012/06/inner-p ... isode-030/

If they don't lose any between now and when they pick up Wanda that makes 9. Given Faq's history, it seems doubtful that they got most of them from conquest.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 054

Postby Housellama » Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:05 pm

Wanda seemed very insistent about getting the direct wordage of the Prediction. Very smart woman there. Very insightful woman. Predictions are like wishes. Just because you wished for what you wanted doesn't mean you're going to like what you asked for.

"You are Fated to croak the Ruler of Haffaton" is very different from "You are Fated to croak Judy Gale".

Jillian is already causing Wanda problems. She's been the source of Wanda's problems from a while now, and she continues to be the problem all the way through Book 2. It's hard to do things the Easy Way when the other person keeps trying to do things the Very Hard way.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 054

Postby bladestorm » Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:45 pm

Housellama wrote:Wanda seemed very insistent about getting the direct wordage of the Prediction. Very smart woman there. Very insightful woman. Predictions are like wishes. Just because you wished for what you wanted doesn't mean you're going to like what you asked for.

"You are Fated to croak the Ruler of Haffaton" is very different from "You are Fated to croak Judy Gale".

Jillian is already causing Wanda problems. She's been the source of Wanda's problems from a while now, and she continues to be the problem all the way through Book 2. It's hard to do things the Easy Way when the other person keeps trying to do things the Very Hard way.

There will be much celebration the day the comic is released that depicts the croaking of Jillian. Especially if there are no pliers or other decryption means available.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 054

Postby arkerpay » Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:27 pm

bladestorm wrote:There will be much celebration the day the comic is released that depicts the croaking of Jillian. Especially if there are no pliers or other decryption means available.


Oh joy! I am hoping Ansom croaks her when she releases him from the giant marshmallow peep.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 054

Postby John Campbell » Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:47 pm

bladestorm wrote:There will be much celebration the day the comic is released that depicts the croaking of Jillian. Especially if there are no pliers or other decryption means available.

Eh, I like her.

I wouldn't want her in any kind of position of authority around me, mind, but I like her.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 054

Postby Housellama » Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:22 pm

John Campbell wrote:
bladestorm wrote:There will be much celebration the day the comic is released that depicts the croaking of Jillian. Especially if there are no pliers or other decryption means available.

Eh, I like her.

I wouldn't want her in any kind of position of authority around me, mind, but I like her.

I don't. Despite appearances, she is actually an intelligent girl but her decision making skills are so atrocious it's hard to tell. If she was simply stupid, then there's an excuse for her. She's a smart girl who makes dumb decisions. There's no excuse for that.

There was a discussion earlier about Jillian holding the Idiot Ball, but it was determined that for her to do that it would have to be an out of character thing. Sadly, we came to the conclusion that wasn't so. Our pretty Jilly's simply an idiot.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 054

Postby Gorky » Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:47 pm

Housellama wrote:Jillian is already causing Wanda problems. She's been the source of Wanda's problems from a while now, and she continues to be the problem all the way through Book 2. It's hard to do things the Easy Way when the other person keeps trying to do things the Very Hard way.

Hence Jillian being "very important" to Wanda. She doesn't have to be very important in a good way.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 054

Postby drachefly » Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:22 am

Housellama wrote:There was a discussion earlier about Jillian holding the Idiot Ball, but it was determined that for her to do that it would have to be an out of character thing.


Well, it could be sort of built in - that she's intelligent when it comes to perceptions, but then completely screw up on plans. And much of her idiocy revolves around love. So, sort of 'has idiot balls'. Hmm. I wonder whether erfling women have ovaries.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 054

Postby Azukar » Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:36 am

I have to say, I'm far more invested in this story right now than in the comic storyline. Can't wait to find out how this is going to go down.
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