Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby WhirdCheese » Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:54 pm

MarbitChow wrote:[...]Rule tweaks are done. End of discussion. [...]


Hurrah! Back to the game!
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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby Swodaems » Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:01 am

MarbitChow wrote:In order to make a Siege attack, each Siege Structure must spend an Action to Launch, Pour, Smash, or Reload. Each required operator must also contribute an Action as well. If the structure doesn't have sufficient operators, the Action fails. All Mobile Structure Actions occur on Phase 0.
Launch : Deals listed structural damage to a structure in RLOS. If used against units, deals double the Structural Damage and ignores defense. Requires Reload and Unlimber.
Reload : Structures that require Reload must have all operators spend an action to reset the structure before it can be used again.
Unlimber : Locks a structure into position, so that it can use a Launch action. Structure must still be loaded before it can fire. Structure cannot be moved while Unlimbered.
Limber : Unlocks a structure so that it can be moved. Automatically unloads the structure. Structure cannot be Reloaded or Launched while Limbered.

Heavy Ballista (4 UP, 18 SP): Requires 2 operators. Grants Launch for [2d6 Structural Damage]. Move 4{8}.
Catapault (4 UP, 12 SP): Requires 4 operators. Grants Launch for [3d6 Structural Damage]. Move 4{8}.

So the Ballista and catapult can only be launched every other round?
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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby MarbitChow » Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:17 am

That is correct, and they can't move and fire. The sequence is Move->Unlimber->(Re)load->Launch->(Re)load->Launch (...->Limber->Move). If a siege structure is limbered after it has been reloaded without being Launched, it must be reloaded again after it is unlimbered.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby ETheBoyce » Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:50 am

It's not currently in the rules (or at least I don't see it) but do Zed's gain their full Level 1 AP when they reach 0 EXP?
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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby MarbitChow » Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:51 am

ETheBoyce wrote:It's not currently in the rules (or at least I don't see it) but do Zed's gain their full Level 1 AP when they reach 0 EXP?
Yes.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby MarbitChow » Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:34 am

I know I said all rules are final, but I lied. I just nerfed the every-living bajebus out of Baffle. I also knocked Chimera down to 4 units / level, but upgraded Glamour to target 2 units / level.
The max area for Baffle is now limited by level (8 squares/level) and all squares must be part of the same single shape (no picking 16 distinct squares out of the battlefield).
(I also added unlimited Baffle effects to Obfuscate, and added Baffle as a requirement for it, but I'm sure no one cares about that.)
Nnelg, if this renders the spell completely unusable to you, I'll understand and allow you to select a different spell.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby Nnelg » Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:46 am

MarbitChow wrote:Nnelg, if this renders the spell completely unusable to you, I'll understand and allow you to select a different spell.

Oh no, I was wonderering when you were going to get around to doing something like that... :lol:


Actually, you've just given me a reason to take Obfuscate. :D

(You may wish to make it multi-round cast or something. I can imagine casting it as an emergency spell to Baffle the entire battlefield, should the enemy start pwning us with archery... I'd probably veil every one of our units to look identical, and reshape the terrain as well.)

(Yeah, I'm not really into "half measures".) :roll:
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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby MarbitChow » Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:33 am

Nnelg wrote:Actually, you've just given me a reason to take Obfuscate. :D (You may wish to make it multi-round cast or something.
Seeing as how you can't take it until 6th level (if I counted correctly), I've got some time to think about it. :D
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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby Swodaems » Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:43 pm

MarbitChow wrote:2 UP : 1 basic Garrison unit
1 UP : 1 zed Warrior or Spearman
0.5 UP : 1 zed Garrison Warrior or Spearman

Unit Upkeep
Each unit costs 5 Shumckers * Effective UP Cost * Level. Units with Leadership cost 2x that calculated cost, while Casters, being unique and powerful units, cost 4x upkeep. Units with the Scout special cost 1/2x the calculated cost. Garrison units can be promoted to regular units by paying 8x their current upkeep cost. Effective UP Cost is the cost for the unit if it were popped as a Level 1 unit. Zed Garrison warriors that level to Level 2 have an effective UP of 1 instead of 0.5, for example.

I'm a bit confused on this equation as it relates to zeds. Do level 0 zeds not pay upkeep until they level to 1?

The example of the zed garrison warrior is a bit unhelpful. Could you elaborate more on the progression of the zed garrison warrior's upkeep as it levels from 0 to 1 to 2? Why is the effective UP cost 1(cost of popping a zed warrior), instead of 2(cost of a level 1 garrison warrior)?
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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby ETheBoyce » Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:58 pm

I believe that a Zed counts as a level 1 unit and thus costs 2.5 schmuckers in upkeep
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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby MarbitChow » Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:15 pm

I've updated the examples. They appear to be incorrect. The formula should read as follows:

Each unit costs 5 Shumckers * Effective UP Cost * Level (min 1).

I've also updated the unit popping quick reference chart.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby MarbitChow » Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:08 am

Added Wallbanger/Wallbreaker (originally mentioned here.)
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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby ETheBoyce » Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:26 pm

Man Golem Mounts be crazy yo!
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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby Nnelg » Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:12 pm

Marbit, do you think there would be a way to get this into the game?


I can think of a few ways to do it. The simplest would be to allow the Repair Golem spell to reanimate golems like raising uncroaked. The juice cost of the spell would be either the full cost of creation or a sizable portion thereof, but the reanimated Golem would have only a fraction of its hits remaining. (I'm thinking either a half, a third, or a quarter. Maybe cheaper golems should start with a larger portion of its hits remaining?)

For rules purposes, a golem corpse should be termed a "Wreck". (Golems that self-destruct do not leave Wrecks.) Wrecks do not depop at the end of the turn like corpses do (not if there's a Dollamancer in the hex, at least).

Personally, I like the notion of broken golems being recycled to reduce the cost of new ones, so I'd figure that a reduced cost (maybe as low as half) wouldn't be a bad thing. It would certainly give a reason why the Dollamancer wouldn't have just crafted an extra golem to begin with. (Perhaps all Golems should start with reduced hits, then? If they're needed ASAP, the Dollamancer could always spend extra juice to Repair them. Also, since crafting a golem is likely a somewhat involved affair, perhaps it should only be done after the Caster is finished moving for the Turn?)
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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby MarbitChow » Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:40 pm

I'm not a fan of the idea. Golems already have no upkeep, no requirements other than Juice, and are highly customizable. If I allow Level 2+ golems (heavy/mount) to be treated as heroic, so that they're incapacitated at 0 instead of dying, and destroyed at -5, that scene could be explained by an incapacitated golem getting healed. I'll think about heroic golems & undead, but honestly, I'm leaning towards no.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby Nnelg » Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:31 pm

MarbitChow wrote:I'm not a fan of the idea. Golems already have no upkeep, no requirements other than Juice, and are highly customizable.

Well, if you remove the decreased Juice cost then it isn't really adding much power to golems, since the Dollamancer could just save the juice for after the battle (and therefore not be restricted by the kind of golem the original was). Or, he could have spent it before the battle, and there'd be an extra golem (at full health) available to replace the one that died.


And if you're concerned about Golems being OP in general, may I suggest that you remove the automatic clearing of wounds at the start of each Turn from all constructs, so that a Dollamancer would have to maintain his golems, in addition to building them? (Dollamancers would probably have to get Repair Golem for free in order for this to work; although Croakamancers shouldn't be able to repair their uncroaked without paying AP first.)

EDIT:
This could even be one of the reasons why Dollamancers haven't taken over the world yet: while they can craft massive 0-upkeep armies, those armies will suffer from attrition much harder than armies of flesh-and-blood units.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby MarbitChow » Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:27 pm

Nnelg wrote:Well, if you remove the decreased Juice cost then it isn't really adding much power to golems, since the Dollamancer could just save the juice for after the battle (and therefore not be restricted by the kind of golem the original was). Or, he could have spent it before the battle, and there'd be an extra golem (at full health) available to replace the one that died.
In general, adding a new rule has to contribute to a lot of scenarios without a lot of effort, or I'll probably reject it. For example, I added Criticals & Luckamancy because they can impact almost every roll, and the rules are fairly simple. Letting 'heroic' golems get incapacitated would follow existing rules. Adding new rules that increase overhead without adding anything 'fun' will ultimately get rejected, even if it is my own idea (like the Artisans 'helping' Dollamancers concept).
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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby Nnelg » Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:00 pm

Well, I'd think the removal of automatic healing for constructs would be fun (without requiring significant increase in complexity) by itself, because it makes sense and helps balance golems (providing an excuse to make them more fun in other ways).

Reanimating golems wouldn't require much added complexity because it could borrow the majority of its rules from Croakamancy; and its high juice cost and minimal benefits would mean it would come up only infrequently (like the emergency situation in the comic). It would be fun because it provides a choice between two options of roughly equal value (but in different ways).



Oh, and about complexity: most of the games I play are much more complex than this one, yet are played in real time with no computer assistance. The trick to such complex games being playable is that most of the rules are just exceptions to the "norm". In fact, many even come up so infrequently that memorizing them is completely unnecessary.

I understand completely if you'd rather not have your game go in that direction, but I'd just like you to know that such rulesets do work (and rather well, in my opinion).
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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby MarbitChow » Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:32 pm

Minor edit: renamed Shatter Ward to Wardbuster to differentiate it from the <target> Ward pattern.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby Nnelg » Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:33 pm

Marbit, I've noticed that Bad Asses are missing from the Beastiary.


Also, a question about Dark Archons:

Since Projection is nigh worthless in battle, could that be replaced by something more useful, please? (I'm thinking some sort of Shockamancy, and/or maybe a stun effect a la "Flash Mob".)

(Projection could probably be given to all Archons by default instead.)
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