Book 2 – Page 97

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Re: Book 2 – Page 97

Postby somnovore » Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:50 am

^ re: sword of ruthlessness

Parson has referenced the Ender scenario directly, so he knows that a) if you're going to beat someone, you need to beat them utterly, and completely. b) he also is compelled by free will to be a player. When his back was against the wall and he was pressed for time/put into an unwinnable situation, he was willing to pull out all the stops.

At this point in the story I would actually think that he is not compelled to make all the best decisions - he has his own agenda - one of responsibility (the xenocide option) and he is choosing to take it. I don't think he really truly believes that he is what everyone says he is, and again, the more people push fate on him the more he is going to try and do the opposite thing unless he thinks his life or the lives of others is directly on the line. Keep in mind this is not a life or death battle, this is a checkmate position and even if he loses this fight he has not lost the war at all.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 97

Postby Owenator » Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:39 pm

Nakedkali wrote:What is meant by B.C. that our zatanna-alike is saying?

I am guessing she meant "Be Calm"

As a pop culture reference I know that "Hey BC" is the title of a collection of comics by Johnny Hart - http://www.amazon.com/Hey-BC-Johnny-Hart/dp/0449124711

But that may be before a lot of you all's time? :D Yes, I am old. lol

EDIT: Here's the official BC web site - http://www.johnhartstudios.com/bc/ Enjoy!
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Re: Book 2 – Page 97

Postby Cantripmancer » Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:15 pm

somnovore wrote:Parson has referenced the Ender scenario directly, so he knows that a) if you're going to beat someone, you need to beat them utterly, and completely. b) he also is compelled by free will to be a player. When his back was against the wall and he was pressed for time/put into an unwinnable situation, he was willing to pull out all the stops.

Yes, but we also know that the hope of TGMtTA (or at least, Janis) is that he'll break war itself, so given that they influenced the spell that brought him, his encounter with ruthlessness may have been designed just as Salvage postulates: to teach him that ruthlessness isn't part of of the ultimate solution. I agree with a lot of what Salvage said.

Heh, I own the "Hey, B.C." collection. Don't know why I didn't think of that. Given that it's a cultural reference with ambiguity that provides logical alternatives (be cool, be calm, etc), that could well be the entirety of that elements import.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 97

Postby Vreejack » Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:10 pm

sheepfly wrote:Oh, and look, guys! Sylvia got dismounted! And she didn't dust from the horrible deadly fall. Amazing!


There are a couple of good reasons for that. One is pure game mechanics in that she did not change zones when she fell. If the dwagon had been flying then she would have been in trouble again. The other is purely practical. Getting dismounted is dangerous in stupidworld because it imparts some rotation on your body so that you tend to fall butter-side down. This can incapacitate even Superman. But Sylvia fell straight down without any rotation. Her mount was not even moving much, so she fell straight down about four feet, perhaps falling forward a bit as the dwagon lurched under the heavy stone. It would be bizarre if she took any serious damage from that.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 97

Postby teratorn » Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:12 pm

Wanda needs to cross and give her bonus so Sylvia can end this quickly. Parson needs a dollamancer if he wants to survive, but there's no way Ace is going to turn, he needs to be croaked and decrypted. I hope he gets captured alive to see if Parson is willing to kill an enemy prisoner.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 97

Postby bladestorm » Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:06 am

teratorn wrote:Wanda needs to cross and give her bonus so Sylvia can end this quickly. Parson needs a dollamancer if he wants to survive, but there's no way Ace is going to turn, he needs to be croaked and decrypted. I hope he gets captured alive to see if Parson is willing to kill an enemy prisoner.

Yes there is. Ace is all about the accessories. Parson is decked out in all sorts of accessories. That'd be infatuation from the start. If Parson gets the chance to show any amount of compassion towards saving Cubbins (somehow Parson can argue that it's his fault that Cubbins got crushed by the tower. He should have been there faster, and he could have made sure the tower still stood), that's one more point towards Parson. Parson could even start talking smack in combat about the cute acessories ("Nice backpack boba fett, but does it even shoot any lasers?""Hmm, laser on the backpack.... now there's an idea I can work with....")
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Re: Book 2 – Page 97

Postby wrecan » Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:43 am

Yeah, I would love a scenario in which someone does something to turn everyone in the city into barbarians. Loyalty to their old regime is eliminated. Now Ace, Sylvia, Parson, Cubbins and anybody else left standing at the end of the book have to work together in the ruins of Spacerock to survive.

I don't know how, but I do think Cubbins is joining Parson's group. Parson needs a way to communicate that is free from spying by Charlie or tGMtTA, and Hat Magic would be that means. Other than Parson and Cubbins, though, I think all other characters in Spacerock are expendable, and are likely to be expended. (Sorry, Ace, though I do think you and Parson would have gotten along famously.)

And I don't think Wanda is re-entering Spacerock. tGMtTA have agreed to let only Parson through. Jojo wants Parson to go in alone. The Predictamancers aren't all that interested in letting anybody else through, and other than Wanda, Jack, and Maggie (and maybe Sizemore), nobody is interested in putting themselves in danger to get Parson's people into Spacerock.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 97

Postby Whispri » Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:08 am

teratorn wrote:Wanda needs to cross and give her bonus so Sylvia can end this quickly. Parson needs a dollamancer if he wants to survive, but there's no way Ace is going to turn, he needs to be croaked and decrypted. I hope he gets captured alive to see if Parson is willing to kill an enemy prisoner.

Hrrm, if Maggie makes it back to Gowin Knob alive, she could cast a loyalty spell on him quite easily. What effect would that have on an unturned prisoner?

wrecan wrote:And I don't think Wanda is re-entering Spacerock. tGMtTA have agreed to let only Parson through. Jojo wants Parson to go in alone. The Predictamancers aren't all that interested in letting anybody else through, and other than Wanda, Jack, and Maggie (and maybe Sizemore), nobody is interested in putting themselves in danger to get Parson's people into Spacerock.

Thing is, Jack's disappeared and so has one of the Predictamancers. So who says they could spot her to stop her? Hmeck, who says they could stop her full stop?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 97

Postby Salem » Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:10 pm

teratorn wrote:Parson needs a dollamancer if he wants to survive,


He really doesn't all he needs is someone loyal with the arkenpliers attuned. Game over.
Now if you're qualifying that as "If he gets trapped on the other side of the portal with no caster support other than turning Ace and/or gets set against GK and/or sees a lot of personal combat. I can see that statement being true. But lets all be honest here arkenpliers are a game breaker. Infinite army cap, replenishing troops in the heat of battle, woo woo war game won.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 97

Postby ShieldOfAthena » Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:45 pm

Vreejack wrote:There are a couple of good reasons for that. One is pure game mechanics in that she did not change zones when she fell. If the dwagon had been flying then she would have been in trouble again. The other is purely practical. Getting dismounted is dangerous in stupidworld because it imparts some rotation on your body so that you tend to fall butter-side down. This can incapacitate even Superman. But Sylvia fell straight down without any rotation. Her mount was not even moving much, so she fell straight down about four feet, perhaps falling forward a bit as the dwagon lurched under the heavy stone. It would be bizarre if she took any serious damage from that.
http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/?px=%2F2010-06-12.jpg

"You can croak from like a three foot fall."

Changing zones doesn't matter in the slightest. There are only three options, death, incapacitated, injury (possibly only slight). So the fact that she took no damage is random chance. Which in her case probably means it is Fate.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 97

Postby Salem » Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:56 pm

ShieldOfAthena wrote:
Vreejack wrote:There are a couple of good reasons for that. One is pure game mechanics in that she did not change zones when she fell. If the dwagon had been flying then she would have been in trouble again. The other is purely practical. Getting dismounted is dangerous in stupidworld because it imparts some rotation on your body so that you tend to fall butter-side down. This can incapacitate even Superman. But Sylvia fell straight down without any rotation. Her mount was not even moving much, so she fell straight down about four feet, perhaps falling forward a bit as the dwagon lurched under the heavy stone. It would be bizarre if she took any serious damage from that.
http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/?px=%2F2010-06-12.jpg

"You can croak from like a three foot fall."

Changing zones doesn't matter in the slightest. There are only three options, death, incapacitated, injury (possibly only slight). So the fact that she took no damage is random chance. Which in her case probably means it is Fate.

Also worth noting people can get seriously hurt intentionally doing anything in stupidworld it's just rare. Spraining an ankle when hoping a wall. Twisting wrong damaging your leg in some fashion. Hitting your head on a diving board during an intentional jump. These things happen. THey're just not super common.

Most importantly that doesn't matter to erfworld. At all stupid world means nothing. There are rules that apply somewhere with modifiers based on intention, type of fall, or whatever they want. As erfworld tries to aproximate earth or at least earth rules "Any fall CAN kill." Parson never says the odds only the rules. Maybe it's 1,000,000,000,000,000. Also note I think the rules are more complex, as going down stairs, hopping like a bunny don't seem to cause death rolls. (Note another way that Erf is different than Earth, all these things CAN kill earthlings but there's probably no roll to prompt death. You can trip going down stairs leading to death, actually falling down stairs is very dangerous, since the body tends to twist and is unable to defend vital parts. Hopping could lead to a trip, that leads to a faceplant that leads to death, but most people would cover their face. Face it humans are fragile and we think all these deaths are silly, but silly doesn't mean impossible. I think however in Erf these are impossible ways to die.)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 97

Postby bladestorm » Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:28 pm

The problem with the examples we have seen of falls is that we still don't know how fall damage is calculated. Or what modifiers are involved. It could be simple math like in Minecraft of (#blocks fallen / 2) - 1 1/2 hits from the fall. Erfworld would have more complication than that with all of its bonuses and modifiers. Something like ((Distance fallen / 10 ) - modifiers + 1) damage. That does straight damage to the character. With that formula, you could stack up your modifiers, jump off of a tall tower, and take 1 damage (unless there is a damage soak mechanism in place). So if Cubbins had 4 hits, after calculating the distance fallen, adding in his modifiers, then adding in the 1 hp for all basic fall damage, his total hits afterward was 0, incapacitated. If he only had 3 hits when he made that fall, his HP total afterward would have been -1, so Croaked. Throw some Luckamancy in there to give him another +1 modifier, he would have had 1 HP left, but still been at least remotely functional.

If the formula Erfworld works off of is anything like this, all those soldiers could be piling over that jump and taking 1 hit. They have at least 2 more to waste in battle before they are no longer able to serve their current Side.

When Parson promoted his units to Heavies, that made them unable to be supported by a flying mount, so mount and rider both fell. The Heavy trait may have allowed them to soak that last Hit of damage done, so the heavy units landed hard, but had at least 1 HP left.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 97

Postby Allsardane » Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:32 pm

I think that some of us are forgetting that Red's fate magic has once again saved her life. http://www.erfworld.com/page/3/

Ace is leading a stack which means that he can direct their attacks. He intentionally ordered rocks thrown at the leadership stack. He wasn't going for the leadership's mount, but for Sylvia herself. Unled stacks are far easier to combat than led ones and Ace was going for a Sylvia-inspired decapitation strike.

Poor Reflux the red-hued dragon. It wasn't his fault and it wasn't his crit to take (as you recall, this is now the SECOND, possibly third crit meant for Sylvia during this fight depending on whether or not you believe http://www.erfworld.com/2011/06/book-2-%E2%80%93-text-updates-051/ this was a crit). Second Crit- http://www.erfworld.com/2011/06/book-2-%E2%80%93-text-updates-052/.

This is the second dragon to have received a crit meant for her. Is it possible that her bad dice roll armor doesn't just send shot meant to hit her to her allies but also has the negative effect of, say, doubling the strength of the blow meant for her?

Apologies if I've screwed up the url coding stuff. Expect this spot to be edited to clean it up as needed.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 97

Postby teratorn » Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:21 pm

bladestorm wrote:If Parson gets the chance to show any amount of compassion towards saving Cubbins (somehow Parson can argue that it's his fault that Cubbins got crushed by the tower. He should have been there faster, and he could have made sure the tower still stood), that's one more point towards Parson.


Good point, it could work.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 97

Postby Lamech » Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:16 am

Whispri wrote:
teratorn wrote:Wanda needs to cross and give her bonus so Sylvia can end this quickly. Parson needs a dollamancer if he wants to survive, but there's no way Ace is going to turn, he needs to be croaked and decrypted. I hope he gets captured alive to see if Parson is willing to kill an enemy prisoner.

Hrrm, if Maggie makes it back to Gowin Knob alive, she could cast a loyalty spell on him quite easily. What effect would that have on an unturned prisoner?

wrecan wrote:And I don't think Wanda is re-entering Spacerock. tGMtTA have agreed to let only Parson through. Jojo wants Parson to go in alone. The Predictamancers aren't all that interested in letting anybody else through, and other than Wanda, Jack, and Maggie (and maybe Sizemore), nobody is interested in putting themselves in danger to get Parson's people into Spacerock.

Thing is, Jack's disappeared and so has one of the Predictamancers. So who says they could spot her to stop her? Hmeck, who says they could stop her full stop?

TGMtTA have foolamancers and lookamancers. They would see right through Jack's Veil. That said, we do not know what TGMtTA agreed too. We never saw that agreement. We saw what they claimed they agreed too.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 97

Postby junovalkyrie » Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:07 pm

Lamech wrote:TGMtTA have foolamancers and lookamancers. They would see right through Jack's Veil. That said, we do not know what TGMtTA agreed too. We never saw that agreement. We saw what they claimed they agreed too.


Wait, where was this stated? As far as I remember, there's been no reference to anything other than thinkamancers being part of tGMtTA.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 97

Postby drachefly » Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:04 pm

Isaac is also a master-class foolamancer. Via one of the supplements in the printed books.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 97

Postby Whispri » Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:24 pm

Lamech wrote:TGMtTA have foolamancers and lookamancers. They would see right through Jack's Veil. That said, we do not know what TGMtTA agreed too. We never saw that agreement. We saw what they claimed they agreed too.

It's been proven they can't, as that's how Wanda and Jack stacked up with Parson in the first place, moving in under the cover of a veil that left everyone staring in shock.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 97

Postby John Campbell » Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:34 am

Zeku wrote:The christian references and messages in both BC and Charlie Brown are a kind of powerful but non-invasive communication that you simply don't see anywhere else. No one has the talent, knowledge, courage, or the support on the ground, to specifically teach good moral principles through art, at least, not without using a sledgehammer. So in my mind, these books are priceless.

Um. The Christian references and messages in B.C. were the exact opposite of non-invasive. B.C. was basically two different comic strips that happened to have characters with the same name and appearance, divided by Johnny Hart's conversion to fundamentalist Christianity. Before that line, it was a pretty decent and basically secular caveman comic. After that, it was a comic with a Message, that frequently used BECAUSE JESUS! in lieu of a punchline with all the subtlety of the Tool's 'Hammer, never mind that it's nominally set Before Christ. (Actually, three different comics, the third being the Uncroaked strip produced by Johnny Hart's heirs, which is seldom good and frequently just batboop insane.)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 97

Postby Oberon » Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:15 am

Nakedkali wrote:
effataigus wrote:Anyone understand the "dookeda" bit?


I'm with Efftagius here. I've spoken english all my life and in that half century I have never used "dookeda" as a drumroll onomatopoeia. It's weird enough that I supposed that it was a pun, the words to a spell, or a reference to something Stupidworldish that I didn't know about.
Google apparently knows everything.

Dunno if this is the right source for the use of the onomatopoeia, but it does use the exact same spelling.
Vreejack wrote:
sheepfly wrote:Oh, and look, guys! Sylvia got dismounted! And she didn't dust from the horrible deadly fall. Amazing!
There are a couple of good reasons for that. One is pure game mechanics in that she did not change zones when she fell.
*sigh* You don't need to change zones to have fallen. You do need to fall to change zones off-turn. Do not argue the one based on the necessity of the other.
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