MarbitChow wrote:If you're giving me 80 UP...
24 Zed Archers (7 Combat) vs 10 Level 2 Heavy Warriors (who spend all points in Def, plus purchase Well-Protected) = 5 + 7 + 6 + 3 = 21 Defense, 18 Hits.
Each warrior has damage wards, so +16 hits. Crypsis the warriors so they're invisible until they reach the wall.
Archers have to coordinate, so they're doing 3 shots of 7 + 21 + 3 (mighty blow) + 7 (ave.) = 38 - 21 = 17 damage x3 each round, less if you stack a lot of Lesser Boosts on them.
If they manage to concentrate fire (which they can't due to squad rules), they can drop 1 of these warriors each round, but odds are they won't drop any for at least 3 or 4 rounds.
Meanwhile, the heavies are dealing 12 SP each round, since only 6 warriors can hit the wall. A Level 1 wall falls in 5 rounds. You might lose 1 or 2 warriors during that time.
Warriors are now through, and can start dropping archers at the rate of 5+/turn. It's over pretty quickly after that.
Sappers aren't the only ones that can use mining picks. Any melee unit can. Sappers are supposed to be cheap throw-away units. (Maybe I should rename them to Miners?) The picks are fine the way they are - they're not supposed to be able to go through a wall quickly. 5 rounds to go through a level 1 wall with nothing but picks seems appropriate to me, because if you're trying to go through the wall instead of the gate, it should take much longer. If they go through the gate, this same setup gets through the gate in 3 turns, and probably hasn't lost a man.
6 units with picks can drop a Level 5 gate in 7 rounds, on average. Three rams can drop a level 5 gate in 3 rounds.
A level 1 city only produces 200 shumckers. That's 40 UP of units. If they build nothing but Zed Garrison Archers, they could have 40, but then the city is not actually contributing anything to the side. Dis City (formerly Sunshine Dale) was a Level 2 protected by 14 of Archers, plus Wandereus and Junetta.
Level 1 cities should probably be easily taken. But if I balance the siege picks so that sappers, the one of the weakest units introduced into the game, can take down the walls, the real units will have no problems whatsoever.
MarbitChow wrote:5 rounds to go through a level 1 wall with nothing but picks seems appropriate to me, because if you're trying to go through the wall instead of the gate, it should take much longer.
MarbitChow wrote:Level 1 cities should probably be easily taken. But if I balance the siege picks so that sappers, the one of the weakest units introduced into the game, can take down the walls, the real units will have no problems whatsoever.
MarbitChow wrote:I'm not attempting balance the siege on its own. I'm attempting to factor in all possible combinations.
MarbitChow wrote:As ETheBoyce pointed out, my off-the-cuff calculations for a customized level 2 Tenebris assault squad was actually too generous to the defenders, and that was with NO PC intervention on the field at all.
MarbitChow wrote:Other than the Ballista/Catapult argument instantly knocking down gates, I'm not convinced that there's anything fundamentally wrong with siege in the current state. Let's use it in a scenario or two and see how it actually plays out.
Nnelg wrote:Actually, I think you were unfair to the defenders. Zed Archers against warded level 2 heavies? That's no contest, there. If those archers were also level 2s the story would be very different, methinks.
Also, you assume the attackers will get into melee with the archers as soon as they breach the wall. Well, given that it takes 5 rounds to do so, I can guarantee you that there will be defending melee units waiting for them. The best melee units in the City, probably. They'll have no problem dealing with the weakened heavies. And while the melee units are doing that, the archers get to keep on shooting at the rest of the army.
MarbitChow wrote:For cities that were, 10 turns ago, considered safe, having a standing garrison worth more than 20 UP is unrealistic.
You're overestimating the amount of real resources that can be brought to bear for most cities. For reference, according to the upkeep, Dis City as a Level 3 already has a higher upkeep based on units stationed there than it's producing each turn. That's realistic for a city that's central to an expanding effort, but not realistic for cities that were far from the assumed front line (until a hostile side popped up in the elves' back door).
Nnelg wrote:A few additional questions, then...
How long does Baffle last?
Can I use Glamour to veil Siege Equipment as units and vice-versa? (Jack did it in-comic...)
What would it cost to get some Turnamancy scrolls to speed up our siege so that it doesn't take 10+ Turns to get anywhere?
What is the maximum range of spellcasting?
MarbitChow wrote:Note: Fire attacks cannot target individual members of a Squad unless that member is not adjacent to any other member of the squad; the actual squad member hit is determined by the GM. Also, Squads and enemy units that are adjacent to an allied unit cannot be targeted by a Fire attack at all.
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