Hypothetical Rules for Darkness Rising

Your new games, homebrews, mods and ideas. Forum games go here.

Hypothetical Rules for Darkness Rising

Postby Nnelg » Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:54 pm

So, I've had a lot of ideas for different schools of magic for Marbitchow's forum game. So, here's some of the results of my creative brainstorming session:

Findamancy
Spoiler: show
Seeker: Determines the approximate direction and distance of a targeted city, unit, or item. (Can be specified by name, or by qualifiers such as "the nearest enemy city". Vague or broad definitions have an [increased] chance of failure, as do repeated questions.)
Triangulate: Gives the exact coordinates of targeted city, unit, or item, and reveals its name if it has one. Targets far from the caster (in hexes) do not reveal their name, and have their positional coordinates rounded. If target is a city or command unit, and not too far away, limited additional information is available concerning garrison/accompanying forces. (Requires "Seeker")
Dossier: Gives very detailed information about a target unit, including accompanying forces. Can also be used to determine historical records of target. (Requires "Triangulate")

Tag: One unit targeted by the caster becomes "Marked" for one round. All units in the hex are aware of a Marked unit's location regardless of concealment or obstructions, and are also aware of any sort Veil that may exist on the unit (although the true nature of the unit is not revealed). The marked unit also has its defence reduced, and may not take advantage of a dodge bonus.
Sleuth: The position of all enemy units (and all "objects of interest") within the hex are made known to all friendly units for one round. (Requires "Tag")

Radar Sweep: The position of all enemy forces within a small number of hexes of the caster is revealed, with a rough order of magnitude estimate of their number (rounded to the nearest natural power of two).
Tracker: Greatly increases the odds of a random encounter (or discovery, if exploring ruins). (Requires "Radar Sweep")


Lookamancy
Spoiler: show
Note: Unlike Findamancy, all Lookamancy spells are targeted by coordinates.
Scry: Determine the contents of a hex. Concealed units and unit stats are not revealed, nor are exact numbers for units occupying structures.
Augur: Gives detailed information for a single hex, including unit types and stats. Caster gets a spot check for all Foolamancy. (Requires "Scry")
Divine: Gives complete information for a single hex, bypassing all Foolamancy and mundane concealment. (Requires "Augur")

Observer: Creates an invisible, flying scout unit for the caster.
Eye Rider: Caster can see through the eyes of the targeted unit. This is a hidden effect; the target is unaware of it. (Requires "Observer")

Hive Sight: Cast on a squad; members whom attack the same target as a previous unit in the squad gain a support bonus to their attack.
Gorgon's Gaze: Single target is Petrified for one round. (There is a roll to resist.)



Notes:
I've tried to make Lookamancy and Findamancy be complimentary, with as little overlap as possible, even when they're achieving similar ends.

I've got a lot more, but no time to write it in. Mostly it's just me coming up with random thoughts for possible spell effects. I've tried to avoid too much overlap, though, and I think there's a lot of potential in them. Also, I think some of the names I've come up with are fun. (For instance, the first level Weirdomancy spell is called "Something". :lol: )
Last edited by Nnelg on Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"The Wizard is Charlie!"
User avatar
Nnelg
 
Posts: 907
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:40 pm
Location: Internets the World of Webs

Re: Hypothetical Rules for Extended Magic in Darkness Rising

Postby MarbitChow » Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:32 pm

Just to help the brainstorming, here are the lists of disciplines that have already been implemented, followed by the list of disciplines that have not been, and some thoughts on some of them

In Game
Spoiler: show
    Dollamancy
    Foolamancy
    Flower Power
    Shockmancy
    Croakamancy
    Luckamancy
    Healomancy
Missing
Spoiler: show
    Findamancy
    Predictamancy - this is really tough to pull off without excessive GM involvement
    Mathamancy - For this to really work, most of the current calculations would have to be hidden
    Turnamancy - Not a lot of info on this yet, but this is a really strong candidate for eventual inclusion
    Weirdomancy
    Dirtamancy - Huge amounts of info, a really strong candidate for eventual inclusion
    Changemancy
    Dittomancy - Huge amounts of info, a really strong candidate for eventual inclusion
    Lookamancy
    Thinkamancy - Due to Tri-caster links, this will only ever be an NPC list;
    Signamancy - Main down-side to this (other than no real knowledge) is massive art asset requirements
    Date-a-mancy
    Retconjuration - Per Word of Titan Rob, cannot be implemented
    Hat Magic - Would need a massively expanded equipment list; highly useful for transporting items
    Carnymancy
    Rhyme-o-mancy - Mostly about augmenting other spells?
    Moneymancy - Not much info, but could be incredibly useful
User avatar
MarbitChow
 
Posts: 2510
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:41 pm

Re: Hypothetical Rules for Extended Magic in Darkness Rising

Postby Lamech » Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:23 pm

If I may comment?
    Findamancy- we've seen this once and it was involved in finding something AND summoning it. Presumably this can summon in addition to finding things.
    Turnamancy -We are unlikely to get solid details on the effectiveness of the turning. We know it can make good vehicles and boost production though. I doubt it has a whole lot of other stuff, its already pretty versatile.
    Weirdomancy - grants and take abilities or other traits. (Turnips on trees). Possibly others.
    Dirtamancy - what you said
    Dittomancy - Ditto
    Thinkamancy - The "casters" seem more like archon-types and not full casters, so tri-casters aren't really a problem. Just say no tri-casters links by the low grade thinkamancy you can bring to bear.
    Hat Magic - What you said.
    Rhyme-o-mancy - Yup, augmenting spells. And augmenting fighting. And augmenting spotting. And we can extrapolate that it can augment basically everything.
    Moneymancy - This is used in its natural form to turn shmuckers into equipment, rations and units. Its unnatural form turns shmuckers to gems. Probably other abilities though.
Lamech
 
Posts: 1450
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:23 am

Re: Hypothetical Rules for Extended Magic in Darkness Rising

Postby Nnelg » Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:30 pm

Here's some more stuff(mancy).

Dirtamancy:
Spoiler: show
Note:
Dirtamancy will require a minor rewrite of terrain and structure rules in order to be integrated fully.

Landscaping: Used to create small structures, entrenchments, and terrain features (including small, mundane traps like killing pits). Can be done in real time, so creating a pitfall trap in front of a charging enemy is plausible. But dangerous, since the range would be limited to half a dozen tiles at most. Can directly inflict light damage on a structure. Also used to make buildings cheaper.

Tunneling: Allows the Dirtamancer to dig temporary tunnels. These tunnels last one Turn, but can be redug the next Turn at half cost. Units using these tunnels to move between hexes must end their Turn on the surface or in a permanent cave. This spell can also be indirectly used to take out enemy structures through sapping (which causes very large amounts of damage). (Requires "Landscaping")
Dirt Trap: Creates larger traps of the sort which (unlike those made by Landscaping) cannot be constructed by regular units. (Requires "Landscaping")

Advanced Construction: Used to create complex, permanent structures, fortifications, traps, et cetera. (Requires "Dirt Trap" and "Tunneling")


Craft Lesser Dirt Golem: See Footnote.
Craft Greater Dirt Golem: See Footnote.

Earthquake: Causes massive damage to all structures in the hex. Units in structures that don't immediately collapse take 1d6 damage (ignoring defence). Units that would be croaked by this damage instead become incapacitated with 0 hits, and will die at the end of the turn if not tended to. (Note: there may need to be a mundane way to stabilize mortally wounded units.) (Requires Caster Level 6)


Footnote: Dirtamancy Golems
Dirt golems are similar to cloth golems, except that their choice of abilities is more limited. Dirt golems are also limited to 5{8} move, and are always considered Heavy units. Dirtamancers also have fewer options to augment their golems than Dollamancers do.


Dittomancy:
Spoiler: show
Anytime a Dittomancer rolls doubles on a Fire attack, he regains that much juice (i.e. a double 5 restores 5 juice).

Double Trouble: Doubles a unit's combat for one round (does not affect action order).
Double Team: Doubled a unit's defence for one round.
Double Time: Unit(s) gets an extra (in-hex) move. (This may be used after the unit takes an action, but it must be used within one round of casting.)
Twin-Link: Unit(s)'s next Fire attack rolls twice and takes the highest.

The following four require any two of the first four:
Me, Too: Allows additional target(s).
Double Down: Allows multiple buffs to be placed on the same unit.
Multiplicity: Allows x2 effect to be increased (at cost) to x3 or x4.
Jinx!: Duplicates a spell being cast by another caster. Jinx! must be cast in the same phase as the spell to duplicate (although the Dittomancer may use a readied action to do so). The duplicate is identical to the original spell in every way except for the target, which the Dittomancer may specify. The juice cost of Jinx! is equal to twice the juice cost of the spell being ditto'd. May not be used to duplicate spells which craft a permanent item or golem. Any buffs applied expire at the beginning of the next Turn, if they wouldn't otherwise expire sooner.

Dupe Glitch: Duplicates an item. Duplicate will vanish at the beginning of next Turn. Juice cost dependent upon the power of the item to be duped. Artifacts and limited-use items cannot be duped. (Requires Caster Level 4)
Doppelganger: Clone a unit. Clone will vanish at the beginning of next Turn. Juice cost dependent on the level of the unit to be clone. The caster must also pay the cost to dupe any items in the unit's inventory (items which may not be duped are simply missing from the clone). Casters may not be cloned. (Requires "Dupe Glitch", Caster Level 6)


I would have included Changemancy, but I think Changemancy needs to be developed alongside Weirdomancy the way Findamancy was developed alongside Lookamancy.
"The Wizard is Charlie!"
User avatar
Nnelg
 
Posts: 907
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:40 pm
Location: Internets the World of Webs

Re: Hypothetical Rules for Darkness Rising

Postby Nnelg » Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:51 pm

Ok, so now for one of my more wild ideas... Weirdomancy.

I started this one by thinking "What is Weirdomancy?" Well, of course it's weird. So spells with weird, unusual effects fit the bill.

But then I remembered, it's also Spookism. And that made me think of all sorts of things which are weird as in "spooky", especially of the paranormal/"wyrd" variety.


Weirdomancy:
Spoiler: show
Constructs in the same Squad as a Weirdomancer gain a bonus as if stacked with a caster specializing in the discipline that made them.

Something: Caster chooses between "Something Good" and "Something Bad", then rolls on a table to determine the effect.
Something Else: Caster chooses between "Something Better" and "Something Worse", then rolls on a table to determine the effect. (Requires "Something")

Poltergeist: Caster picks a target and makes a Bull Rush check with 4d6, adding 2x caster level to his roll. If successful, the target moves 1d4 squares in a direction specified by the caster, treating each step as a successful Bull Rush. May not target mounted units, but if successfully used against a mount the caster may elect to throw the rider from his saddle instead.
Figgie Newton: Caster chooses "Up" or "Down". For "Up", non-flying units become flying (whether they want to or not) and move is halved. For "Down", flying units cease flight, movement is quartered, and all units count as Heavy for the purposes of Bull Rush. In both cases, units take -4 combat and -4 defence. Lasts 3 rounds. (Requires "Poltergeist")

Melancholy: Applies the "Hollow" effect. No (other) spell or status effect may be applied to a "Hollow" unit. "Hollow" units are also immune to Bull Rushes, but cannot dodge. Remove all status effects from the unit at the time the spell is cast. Lasts one Turn.
Marionette: Caster makes an attempt to take over an enemy unit. If successful, the unit remains fully aware of its own actions but looses control over its body (for RP purposes, control of the mouth is shared). Automatically succeeds against constructs unless a caster specializing in the discipline that made them is in the Hex. Lasts one Round, but can be renewed on subsequent Rounds at reduced juice cost and chance of failure. (Requires "Melancholy")

Death Clock: Deals a very large amount of damage (not reducible by defence) to the target at the start of the third round after the spell is cast. If the target leaves the caster's hex, (or vice-versa) this damage is called off. Units with the Caster build are immune.

Count the Shadows: The caster conjures a number of "Shade" units. Shades have 0 combat, 0 defence, 0 hits, and 12 move. Shades do not make regular attacks, but instead directly deal 1d3 Fatigue damage (ignoring defence) to an adjacent unit. Shades are destroyed when a melee directed at them rolls a 10 or better, or automatically by a Caster build's Fire attack or any sort of damage-dealing spell. Shades move and attack at the end of each Round, ignoring all terrain, structures, traps, obstacles, and units. Lasts 3 rounds.


I think this is a good enough assortment of strange and unusual abilities to make Weirdomancers suitably... Weird.

An observant fellow may also note that I've included two spell effects that got rejected from Foolamancy; I figure that this is where they actually belong.
"The Wizard is Charlie!"
User avatar
Nnelg
 
Posts: 907
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:40 pm
Location: Internets the World of Webs

Re: Hypothetical Rules for Darkness Rising

Postby Nnelg » Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:55 pm

In response to feedback, I've made a minor addendum:

Findamancy - Take 2
Spoiler: show
Triangulate: Gives the approximate coordinates of targeted city, unit, or item, and reveals its name if it has one. (Can be specified by name, or by qualifiers such as "the nearest enemy city". Vague or broad definitions have an [increased] chance of failure, as do repeated questions.) The closer the target, (and the more powerful the caster) the more precise the coordinates.

Summon Aid: Generates a "summoned" unit (this works similarly to making a Golem, but the summoned unit vanishes at the end of the Turn).
Recall: This spell is cast in two parts: designating a unit, then sometime later recalling it. The caster may only designate adjacent units, and no one caster may designate more units than he has levels. When a unit is recalled, it immediately is transported to a square adjacent to the caster. Prisoners may be designated for Recall, but the designation expires if they manage to rejoin their Side. (Requires "Summon Aid")

Tag: One unit targeted by the caster becomes "Marked" for one round. All units in the hex are aware of a Marked unit's location regardless of concealment or obstructions, and are also aware of any sort Veil that may exist on the unit (although the true nature of the unit is not revealed). The marked unit also has its defence reduced, and may not take advantage of a dodge bonus.
Sleuth: The position of all enemy units (and all "objects of interest") within the hex are made known to all friendly units for one round. (Requires "Tag")

Radar Sweep: The position of all enemy forces within a small number of hexes of the caster is revealed, with a rough order of magnitude estimate of their number (rounded to the nearest natural power of two).
Tracker: Greatly increases the odds of a random encounter (or discovery, if exploring ruins). (Requires "Radar Sweep")
"The Wizard is Charlie!"
User avatar
Nnelg
 
Posts: 907
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:40 pm
Location: Internets the World of Webs

Re: Hypothetical Rules for Darkness Rising

Postby Nnelg » Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:17 pm

I've decided to move some of my other suggestions here for compilation.

Dance-Fighting Redeux:
Spoiler: show
Nnelg wrote:You know, something else that bugs me is Dance-Fighting. The way it's implemented makes it tactically mandatory to take, when its usefulness needs to vary based upon the tactical situation. (Changing the bonus will not accomplish this, although a movement restriction, fragile end condition, or resource to manage would...)


I propose that we start by getting rid of the current Dance-Fighting skill. Any Squad led by a Dancing commander is considered to be Dancing.

Dancing units have their move limited to half the move (rounded up) of the slowest unit in the stack. They must move in formation: any unit that leaves the formation (including via forceful means, like Bull Rush) must leave the Squad (needless to say, this means they must all move in the same Phase as well). If the Squad Commander must leave the Squad this way, all remaining units stop Dancing.

A Squad whose Commander has the "Lead Dancer" special may start (or stop) dancing during a regroup action. (Note: Rhyme-o-Mancy can make any Squad start or stop Dancing... Possibly even against their will!)


By limiting movement so strictly, the decision to Dance or not becomes an important choice depending on the tactical situation, rather than a no-brainer. By forcing units that leave formation to drop out of the Squad, we introduce a way to tactically force your opponent to stop dancing (which has its own trade-offs, seeing as Bull Rush doesn't deal damage). By requiring a regroup action, we insure that Dance-Fighting will be an integral part of the battleplan, rather than something that was tacked on just because (unless you have a Rhyme-o-Mancer, of course).

Rally Banners:
Spoiler: show
Whoops! I quoted the wrong post... I'll fix it later, though.

Note: If the changes I suggested for Dance-Fighting are also made, we may (or may not) need to add a line saying that this special regroup action may not be used to start Dancing.

LOS and Ranged Fire:
Spoiler: show
There was a lot said here in a lot of different segments, so instead of quoting I'll sum up. Also, I've thought of additional concerns that will come up in the course of play, so I've added additional clarification for them.

First, we need to specify the difference between regular LOS and "Clear Line-of-Sight" (CLOS). Regular LOS means units can see, but not necessarily shoot at each other. A unit must have to CLOS to its target in order to shoot at it. CLOS is not mutual.

Any obstacle that blocks LOS blocks CLOS. Units which are not in the the same Squad as and adjacent to the firing unit block CLOS. (Exceptions: units with a lower elevation than the firer do not block CLOS to units on that level or above. Units which are on the same elevation as the firer do not block CLOS to units at higher elevations. Invisible and/or airborne units do not block CLOS.) A unit adjacent to enemy units has no CLOS to any non-adjacent unit. No unit has CLOS to a non-adjacent enemy unit that is adjacent to a friendly unit.

CLOS affects ranged Fire attacks and Shockamancy spells. If a unit does not have CLOS to its intended target, it may not take that shot.


There, I think that covers everything. I deliberately made Shockamancy subject to CLOS rules in order to keep it balanced, but left out other casters because they need to cast spells on units on the front lines. (Also, it makes sense thematically.)
Last edited by Nnelg on Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
"The Wizard is Charlie!"
User avatar
Nnelg
 
Posts: 907
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:40 pm
Location: Internets the World of Webs

Re: Hypothetical Rules for Darkness Rising

Postby Nnelg » Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:01 pm

Ok then, I've got a new one: Lancers! It doesn't seem like there's been much use of cavalry in this game so far, which is really a shame since Naughty Kitties would make Cuirassiers green with envy.

So, have mounted units with the Spearman build be able to perform a special charge action (or just get the bonus whenever they attack after moving). The thing is... I'm not sure if double or even triple damage would be enough to properly convey the truly devastating nature of a cavalry charge...
"The Wizard is Charlie!"
User avatar
Nnelg
 
Posts: 907
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:40 pm
Location: Internets the World of Webs

Re: Hypothetical Rules for Darkness Rising

Postby Nnelg » Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:30 am

Meh, I've thought about it a bit, and I think that simply giving an automatic critical to mounted spearmen who attack in the same phase their mount moves 4 or more squares (without doubling back on itself) would be good enough.
"The Wizard is Charlie!"
User avatar
Nnelg
 
Posts: 907
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:40 pm
Location: Internets the World of Webs

Re: Hypothetical Rules for Darkness Rising

Postby ETheBoyce » Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:34 am

But then you'd have to give Spearmen an anti-charge ability
ETheBoyce
YOTD + Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
YOTD + Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
 
Posts: 475
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:17 am

Re: Hypothetical Rules for Darkness Rising

Postby Nnelg » Sat Nov 24, 2012 2:26 am

ETheBoyce wrote:But then you'd have to give Spearmen an anti-charge ability

Not really. They still get to Strike enemy units when they're two squares out, if they've got a prepared action.

For spearmen to deserve an anti-charge ability, cavalry charges would have to be a lot more powerful then we're likely to ever make rules for.
"The Wizard is Charlie!"
User avatar
Nnelg
 
Posts: 907
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:40 pm
Location: Internets the World of Webs

Re: Hypothetical Rules for Darkness Rising

Postby Nnelg » Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:51 pm

Since there's been some hassle over Shockamancy, I've decided to try my hand at making a new system for it. I'm unfamiliar with how things were done before, but I think that isn't a bad thing. I'm setting juice costs by first assuming the cost:damage ratio of Hoboken is balanced, then comparing the relative damage of each spell to that.

I also haven't bothered to name any of the spells.


Shockamancy Revamped:
Spoiler: show
Bonus: "Grounding" - Shockamancy damage directed at casters specializing in Shockamancy is automatically converted into Juice loss as long as the target has Juice remaining. A caster specializing in Shockamancy can also choose to absorb Shockamancy damage directed at any Friendly unit within 12 squares in this manner (although this extension of protection must be specified beforehand).

Note: This replaces the previous ability to craft Juice Potions, although I'm planning to propose a system later that would give said ability to all casters (except Healomancers, who'd make Healing Potions instead). From what I can tell, our Side has more Juice potions than we know what to do with anyways.


Shockamancy spells require a CLOS to the target. For AOE spells, the caster must have CLOS to the Source Square (ignore any Unit in this Square for these purposes). All Shockamancy damage is considered Flame-Based (placeholder effect), and ignores defence.


Hoboken - Deal Combat+2d6 to one target. Costs 1 Juice base, but caster may add extra dice at the cost of 1 Juice/d6 so long as the total number of dice does not exceed the caster's level. Deals half spell damage as SP if target is a Structure. (1+ Juice)


[Requires Hoboken] AOEDAM (1 AP) - Size 1 AOE; affected Units take 1d6 damage (rolled separately for each unit). Costs 3 Juice base, but caster may add extra dice at the cost of 3 Juice/d6, so long as the total number of dice does not exceed half the caster's level (rounded down). Caster may upgrade AOE to Size 2 by doubling Juice cost and halving damage (rounded down) if level 5 or greater. (3+ Juice)

[Requires Hoboken] STUN (1 AP) - Stuns one target for 1d3+1 rounds. (5 Juice)

[Requires Hoboken] DOT (1 AP) - Unit takes 1d6+(one-half caster's defence, rounded up) damage each round for 3 rounds. Base cost is 1 Juice, but caster may increase duration at the cost of 1 Juice/round so long as total duration does not exceed level+1. (1+ Juice)


[Requires AOEDAM, STUN] AOESTUN (0.5 AP) - Size 1 AOE; each affected unit is Stunned for 1d3-1 rounds. (12 Juice)

[Requires AOEDAM, DOT] AOEDOT (0.5 AP) - Size 1 AOE; each affected unit takes 1d3+(one-half caster's defence, rounded up) damage each round for 3 rounds.


[Requires AOESTUN, AOEDOT, Level 8] ÜBER (1 AP) - Not sure what this spell would do. Something awesome, certainly. (High AOE damage with Stun and/or DOT, perhaps?) I just feel like there needs to be something shiny at the top this tree, to make climbing it seem more worthwhile. (??? Juice)


[Requires Hoboken, Level 4] TRAP (1 AP) - Allows the caster to build traps storing any Shockamancy spell. (I haven't thought of the rules for this yet, but I'll make sure to include it with my Potions/Scrolls suggestion. I'm also a bit torn between having Shockamancy traps be set up only by the Shockamancer and lasting a few turns before degrading, and Shockamancy traps be crafted as items that can be deployed by others. For now, it's on the "TO-DO" list.)




AOE Spells:
Spoiler: show
AOE spells come in two sizes, henceforth known as Size 1 and Size 2. Each size has three different styles: Blast, Line, and Cone. Unless otherwise noted, the caster may freely choose any style whenever they cast an AOE spell (if they do not specify, it is assumed they used Blast). Size 1 always covers 9 Squares, and Size 2 covers 25; the only difference between styles is the shape of the AOE. A complete size/style selection is known as a Template.

Each Template has a Source Square, and Line/Cone-style Templates also have a Terminus Square. When a caster casts an AOE spell, he must have LOS (CLOS for Shockamancy) to the Target Square. The Template is then applied with the Source as the Target Square. For Line/Cone, the caster must also specify a direction such that the Terminus Square is farther away from the caster than the Source Square.

The caster must specify Target Square, Template, and Direction (if applicable) whenever casting an AOE spell.

Any multi-square unit with at least 1/4 (rounded down) of its squares under an AOE effect is considered hit by that effect. If more than 1/2 (rounded down) the squares of a mounted unit is hit by an AOE, the rider is considered hit as well. Walls block AOE.


Note: This system also lays the groundwork for other AOE stuff, like Dwagon Bweath.


AOE Templates:
Code: Select all
Level 1:

Blast:

  ---
  -X-
  ---

Line:

  X-------o

Cone:

   -
   -o
  ----
  X-


Size 2:

Blast:

  -----
  -----
  --X--
  -----
  -----

Line:    -o
        ---
       ---
      ---
     ---
    ---
   ---
  ---
  X-

Cone:

  ----o----
   -------
    -----
     ---
      X

Legend:
'-': AOE
'X': Source (Included in AOE)
'o': Terminus (Included in AOE)
"The Wizard is Charlie!"
User avatar
Nnelg
 
Posts: 907
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:40 pm
Location: Internets the World of Webs

Re: Hypothetical Rules for Darkness Rising

Postby Nnelg » Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:46 pm

You know, the whole point of my making of a separate thread for this was so that I could get feedback without interrupting discussion of the actual rules... :lol:


I actually want to be told every little detail about what's wrong with my suggestions. (How else am I to improve them?) If I think your fears are unfounded, I'll say so, but if they're valid concerns I'll make a new suggestion to meet them. I guess it's probably that traffic on this forum's pretty slow, but still.

(At the very least I'd like to know what is and isn't being considered for inclusion. Some things I post here, like new magic disciplines, is just my idle musing; but others, like the Dance-Fighting fix, are rather important in my mind. I suppose I could leave the musings on this thread, and take the important ones back to the main rules, then...)
"The Wizard is Charlie!"
User avatar
Nnelg
 
Posts: 907
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:40 pm
Location: Internets the World of Webs

Re: Hypothetical Rules for Darkness Rising

Postby MarbitChow » Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:06 pm

Well, for the short term, nothing new is going to be considered for inclusion into the official rules. I want to move the scenarios forward a bit, and that first requires that all players be updated and confirm that they're still active. Once that's done, and all of the NPCs are updated, then the next few scenarios begin. The new rules need to be play-tested a bit before they get any more changes. I don't actually plan to critique anything that gets posted here, to be honest. I'll be using this thread for inspiration, but it's not likely that anything that gets written up here will be used as written.

There are already more than enough schools of magic, to be honest. The next stage of the expansion, in my mind, is increasing the number of cities that Tenebris controls (assuming the players can pull that off) and giving military-minded players their own cities to manage. The Paragon, Trainer, and Regent abilities are a step in that direction, but most of the focus coming up will be on giving the military classes more to do.
User avatar
MarbitChow
 
Posts: 2510
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:41 pm

Re: Hypothetical Rules for Darkness Rising

Postby Nnelg » Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:57 pm

Right, I understand that; but what of Dance-Fighting and CLOS, though? Unlike the extra schools of magic, which are additions, those two are fixes for things which are currently broken. I personally don't mind in the slightest if not one of the currently unused schools make it into the game, but I really think those two are important.


LOS is broken because the current rules are not only unrealistic, slightly decreasing player immersion, but also make ranged units overpowered. I'm pretty sure I've already convinced you of the most important bits of the CLOS fix, though.


However, I haven't explained why I think Dance-Fighting is broken. It is because it's too useful. There's no situation where Dance-Fighting isn't beneficial, and so there's no good reason not to have every unit take it. This means they all have 1 AP less to spend on skills which are only useful in certain situations, reducing "Tactical Variety".

This reduces fun the same way that overpowered units do, just more subtly. If one unit's overpowered, then nobody uses anything else, and it's just a matter of throwing more material at the enemy (which isn't much fun). Same here: the way units differentiate each other is by spending AP on specialized skills, so if there's less AP then units are less specialized, more homogeneous. It's not quite as bad as being identical, but still a step in the wrong direction. (Even worse is the fact that when players don't take it, they effectively add a negative modifier to any stack they join... Meaning they can't really participate as much.)

Also, it doesn't fit well thematically. We know from the comic that Dance-Fighting isn't a standard tactic, so the break here reduces immersion. In fact, it'd be better if we forgot about "Dance-Fighting" altogether, and just called the skill "teamwork". At least then it wouldn't seem as weird. (Of course, it'd still be better to get rid of the entire skill, until we can find a better way to implement it.)
"The Wizard is Charlie!"
User avatar
Nnelg
 
Posts: 907
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:40 pm
Location: Internets the World of Webs

Re: Hypothetical Rules for Darkness Rising

Postby bob the 6th » Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:14 am

It did seem dance fighting was a high level thing. The RCC couldn't do it in mass numbers, but three KISS members and Stanly could. Also a mass force of transvisto warlords could pull it off, but their bats didn't seem to be having any part in it. Wanda as a really high level caster could lead her minions in a dance, as could several archeons working together with foolomancy.

So, I think it is an ability that requires like level 4-6 at the least. perhapce make it free for militay units at that level. Then allow a unit with leadership to grant it freely to all his stack at like 6.
User avatar
bob the 6th
 
Posts: 181
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:13 pm

Re: Hypothetical Rules for Darkness Rising

Postby Nnelg » Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:58 am

bob the 6th wrote:So, I think it is an ability that requires like level 4-6 at the least. perhapce make it free for militay units at that level. Then allow a unit with leadership to grant it freely to all his stack at like 6.

But it'd still be something that everyone takes/uses, though. If there's no real penalty on Dancing units, there's no reason to not have every unit that can Dance do so. You'd be better off just adding a generic bonus at that level (in my opinion).

Still, at least it's better than before. The fact that units will have to have spent a few AP before getting it helps variety a bit, and making it free does so even more.
"The Wizard is Charlie!"
User avatar
Nnelg
 
Posts: 907
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:40 pm
Location: Internets the World of Webs

Re: Hypothetical Rules for Darkness Rising

Postby bob the 6th » Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:20 am

Perhaps make it natural rhyme-o-mancy? Requires the players make up some sort music based pun? Like the elves in the siege of dis city singing "open up your doors, we all come in side and croak your stacks. All we want to do is croak you stacks. We're not unreasonable, nobodies gonna turn your stacks." weak, but all I could think of.
User avatar
bob the 6th
 
Posts: 181
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:13 pm

Re: Hypothetical Rules for Darkness Rising

Postby Nnelg » Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:28 am

The fix I came up with involved limiting movement, enforcing penalties for falling out of formation, and making it difficult to start or stop Dancing without a Rhyme-o-Mancer:
Spoiler: show
Nnelg wrote:I propose that we start by getting rid of the current Dance-Fighting skill. Any Squad led by a Dancing commander is considered to be Dancing.

Dancing units have their move limited to half the move (rounded up) of the slowest unit in the stack. They must move in formation: any unit that leaves the formation (including via forceful means, like Bull Rush) must leave the Squad (needless to say, this means they must all move in the same Phase as well). If the Squad Commander must leave the Squad this way, all remaining units stop Dancing.

A Squad whose Commander has the "Lead Dancer" special may start (or stop) dancing during a regroup action. (Note: Rhyme-o-Mancy can make any Squad start or stop Dancing... Possibly even against their will!)


By limiting movement so strictly, the decision to Dance or not becomes an important choice depending on the tactical situation, rather than a no-brainer. By forcing units that leave formation to drop out of the Squad, we introduce a way to tactically force your opponent to stop dancing (which has its own trade-offs, seeing as Bull Rush doesn't deal damage). By requiring a regroup action, we insure that Dance-Fighting will be an integral part of the battleplan, rather than something that was tacked on just because (unless you have a Rhyme-o-Mancer, of course).
"The Wizard is Charlie!"
User avatar
Nnelg
 
Posts: 907
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:40 pm
Location: Internets the World of Webs

Re: Hypothetical Rules for Darkness Rising

Postby Nnelg » Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:12 am

MarbitChow wrote:Typical scroll costs are 1000 shumckers / level required to make the scroll, with more rare & useful scrolls costing more. Tri-caster scrolls are negotiated prices, and are exceedingly rare. Players will not be able to create scrolls themselves, ever. (The reason for this is because I do not wish casters to blur into each other, and if players could make scrolls, healers would stock up on shockamancy and croakmancers would have healing standing by, etc.)

I see your point here, Marbit, and it's a valid one; however, I still feel compelled to make an argument for scrolls.


1) If scrolls were difficult and/or time-consuming enough to make, players would not be able to hoard them easily.
1a) Scroll-crafting can be made mutually exclusive with potion-crafting, item-crafting, and golem-crafting.
1b) If scrolls can be sold at the Magic Kingdom then the players themselves have a valid reason to not hoard unneeded scrolls, anyways.

2) Casting from a scroll requires an action, which is therefore not available for casting a spell the caster already knows.
2a) The scroll spell will likely be less powerful than the spells the caster knows, or if it isn't then it will be an expensive scroll.
2b) Spell scrolls can be limited so that they are always less powerful than the same spell cast by a caster who knows it.
2c) Specialized casters whom aren't always useful on the battlefield (like Dollamancers, Luckamancers, and Foolamancers) would use (and be given) scrolls more often than powerful casters whose spells are almost always needed in the field (like Healomancers, Shockamancers, and Croakamancers).

3) Scrolls, being single-charge items limited to casters, are not all that powerful.
3a) In fact, a level 4 Dollamancer can create the equivalent of a Hoboken Scroll that can be used by any unit for only 6 Juice.
3b) Outside the Healomancy and Shockamancy schools, few spells are desirable enough to be hoarded.
3bb) And Healomancers and Shockamancers are busy crafting potions.

4) Additional flexibility for casters isn't a bad thing.
4a) Trading a permanent and limited resource for short-term gain will mean that scrolls are never used frivolously (or if they are, the other players will shout at the one who did so).
4b) Scrolls would allow low-level and/or less-useful casters to fulfill a wider variety of roles.
4c) There currently aren't many sources of healing; so there's plenty of room for another.
4cc) Healing scrolls make perfect "use only in case of emergency" items.
4d) It would allow casters without lingering buffs to be more useful during down-time.

So, there. I think I've made my case. :)
"The Wizard is Charlie!"
User avatar
Nnelg
 
Posts: 907
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:40 pm
Location: Internets the World of Webs

Next

Return to Your Games

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Jacior and 1 guest