Exate wrote:City improvement rates. Reading through the comic, I can't help but think that we promote cities much, much too easily.
Safaquel wrote:Meh. You guys keep me experiencing spasmatic bursts of wanting to get into the game.
They pass, for now.
But there's an awful lot of micro-management and spreadsheets involved, to be honest. As if you just describe all things in numbers, and these numbers cannot be ignored.
I'll try to mock up a demo sheet one of these days when I get some free time. A lot of free time.Kaed wrote:I am actually interested in your spreadsheet mathematics stuff though, it might be something to look into in the future. I like numbers and RNG mechanics - anything that makes things more complex and interesting.
This has been bugging me for a while and I have to ask- where are we getting the idea that stabbers aren't ever popped as garrison units? Is there an actual in-comic source for it, or was this just wild surmise on our part? Because given that we have garrison warlords and garrison infantry, in the absence of other information my stance on this would be that any unit can be popped with the garrison special at the ruler's option. Certainly, my current impression is not that some major, fundamental unit types are garrison by default and demand that their side pay a tax in shmuckers to use them outside of their home city.Kaed wrote:I think perhaps that garrison units get full stack and stabbers pay for mobility with reduced pop amount.
I would support, if not completely flattening the pop rates, at least scaling them back so that cities are never popping three or four stacks at a time. That's excessive, particularly considering that our infantry are basically overpowered statistics-wise compared to the comic. There's not a huge amount of reason to pop non-infantry units at the moment unless you really, really need their specials/leadership or are concerned about upkeep. Infantry swarms are just too good and too easy to come by.Kaed wrote:We could actually alter this right now - none of you have started wholesale infantry production yet, and it would just mean adding or subtracting a few of them.
Or we can wait till next game. Up to you guys.
Kaed wrote:On the same note - cities. I'm going to have to agree on the analysis metric concept. I think that perhaps a ruler needs to buy individual aspects and then their cities are reclassified based on what is there.
Kaed wrote:Rulers need to pay to build certain aspects in their city, which are designed as they wish. Instead of a point based allotment system (beyond the beginning), they pay for each aspect as they wish, and when they reach a certain point their city levels up.
Most of this seems reasonable. I'm not crazy about the specific prices involved, but the principles seem sound enough and the general idea of "you can throw your shmuckers into upgrading any feature of the city you want" appeals to me. The base cost, particularly if it's substantial, would explain why cities are commonly not upgraded- and if it's partially based on the level of the city's development already, perhaps would explain why cities rarely reach high level.Kaed wrote:It occurs to me that there should be a flat cost to upgrade the city, something reasonable like 2500, so that random tiny modifications are discouraged - people should be saving up for large modifications, not increasing the wall strength by 2% a turn, that would be silly.
Levelling up cities is based both on reaching on a certain amount of upgrades and having some or all (depending on the level in question) aspects of the city to a minimum level of development.
There is a global cap to upgrades in a city. Once you reach it you cannot upgrade anything else. This is what creates unique situations like Transilvito's capital - it has failed to meet the wall requirements for level 5, but that's fine because the money went to something more useful, absolutely deadly air defenses.
To the best of my knowledge, the only cities that we've actually seen upgraded on-screen are Gobwin Knob and Goodminton. All other cities were upgraded offscreen, so their method of upgrade remains unknown. And even when upgrading Gobwin Knob, which went to five in one shot, there's mention of needing to focus on its structure and design- which can be taken as defining its flavor and structure stats like in our current system, or could be taken as defining the entire city block by block in a more modular system based on upgrading its parts individually. I've never really liked the "capitals are special and everywhere else is generic and boring" ruleset.0beron wrote:I'm really not sure this makes sense honestly, because the only time where a single part of the city was enhanced separately was when a Dirtamancy scroll was involved. All other cities were upgraded wholesale it seems, and their variation can already be accounted for under our current system. Remember that in our system Capital Sites can totally sacrifice an entire zone to allocate the points elsewhere. This explains Transylvito, Spacerock, and FAQ.
This could be explained fairly simply by terrain-based defensive bonuses or other factors not rooted in the city. To wildly conjure up some numbers here, if a city whose walls have a defense bonus of +8 would have to normally be a level 8, and Gobwin Knob is +5 due to walls and +3 more due to bonuses, then you get a level eight equivalent without getting into a situation where every mountain city is considered high-level even if it's nothing more than a shack on a cliff.0beron wrote:However that does cause me to call into question GK City's status as a "hypothetical level 8". If these city levels really are a factor of the upgrades purchased and the city's defendability, why wouldn't GK be an *actual* Lvl 8?
Numbers are a core part of Erfworld; it's basically impossible to ignore them. It's a foolish warlord who doesn't know his units' stats. That said, I have yet to have a budget I couldn't do over the course of fifteen minutes or less.Safaquel wrote:But there's an awful lot of micro-management and spreadsheets involved, to be honest. As if you just describe all things in numbers, and these numbers cannot be ignored.
Exate wrote:Side note, the fact that Gobwin Knob still has its portal at level 0/1 implies that our restrictions on when capital portals appear are inaccurate at best. Given that anyone in their right mind would want access to the Magic Kingdom, it might even be something that should just be in all capitals automatically.
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