Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 051

Page by page discussion of the comic.

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 051

Postby name lips » Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:33 am

the_tick_rules wrote:So the ruler is a total pawn. I guess she could order the hippie disbanded, but then she'd miss her flower fix huh? Hey the kill word was pretty neat.

I don't know how bad the addiction to the flowers is. In a magical world with magical hippymancy flowers, it might even be fatal to try to stop using them once you're addicted. We know Olive has a knack with deadly poisons.

So she could disband Olive, but it would mean killing herself too.

It's more odd to me that she doesn't just give Olive direct orders. Olive needs to obey, doesn't she? She could order Olive to cure the addiction, or to stop ruling in her stead, and she would do it, wouldn't she?
name lips
 
Posts: 235
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:35 pm

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 051

Postby Whispri » Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:57 am

For all this talk of otherworldliness... Wanda's garden. The statues of Angels. Her use of the word 'cenotaph' despite graves of any sort being unknown on Erf... does that strike anyone else as cross-dimensional cultural exchange? The Angels might be Units, but the rest of it?

I wouldn't be surprised if the exchange went two-way. That is to say, that someone went to Stupid World, if that is where Judy and the Wizard came from, then told of the Emerald City at the end of the yellow road. Maybe that's how Haffaton make their money, trading magical trinkets for food and goods? I mean, they have portal magick, why should it be limited to visiting the Magick Kingdom? Maybe that's why Wanda looks the way she does, grown old during trips to other Worlds.

Oh and, looking back, didn't Stanley order Wanda to 'make him big' during the Perfect Warlord spell?
Whispri
YOTD + Erfabet Supporter!
YOTD + Erfabet Supporter!
 
Posts: 643
Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 9:02 pm

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 051

Postby M.A.D » Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:48 am

name lips wrote:It's more odd to me that she doesn't just give Olive direct orders. Olive needs to obey, doesn't she? She could order Olive to cure the addiction, or to stop ruling in her stead, and she would do it, wouldn't she?


That depends on Olive's loyalty stat, which I assume is notoriously low. Units aren't automatically disbanded when they disobey their ruler if they have justifiable reasons to do so, and having your ruler on drugs is a pretty good reason to not listen to her.

So basically, Judy can't order Olive anything because she put her on drugs, and she can't get the drugs off without ordering Olive to do something about it. On the other hand, she can't disband Olive either, because of the drugs. It's a perfect loop where Olive gets to do whatever she wants.
M.A.D
 
Posts: 62
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:10 pm

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 051

Postby youngstormlord » Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:42 am

M.A.D wrote:
name lips wrote:It's more odd to me that she doesn't just give Olive direct orders. Olive needs to obey, doesn't she? She could order Olive to cure the addiction, or to stop ruling in her stead, and she would do it, wouldn't she?


That depends on Olive's loyalty stat, which I assume is notoriously low. Units aren't automatically disbanded when they disobey their ruler if they have justifiable reasons to do so, and having your ruler on drugs is a pretty good reason to not listen to her.

So basically, Judy can't order Olive anything because she put her on drugs, and she can't get the drugs off without ordering Olive to do something about it. On the other hand, she can't disband Olive either, because of the drugs. It's a perfect loop where Olive gets to do whatever she wants.


It doesn't even have to be notoriously low. Olive could have been forced by duty to get Chief Warlord and Heir addicted to drugs if that CW was originally from outside Erfworld and summoned as part of perfect warlord spell. As I wrote back on page 2:

1. Judy had the same relationship with Olive as Parson has with Wanda now. I'll explain why I think Judy was once the perfect warlord later. Once the ruler of the side was about to croak without heir, he or she looked where most of his sides' army were, said "Oh, they are with my Chief Warlord near the capital site. Making Chief Warlord my heir." and croaked. Judy got addicted to flowers much, much before that happened. (Can you blame her? She was just a regular girl ordering thousands to kill and die for her. Remember Wanda's comment that if she had a spell to stop headache that she would never stop casting it? What if Judy had the spell to stop heartache? Or a pink flower...)


What if the flower wasn't pink at first? What if Judy started on some other flower, that helped take out piece of her mind that cared about ordering people to die for her and gave her a peace of mind to do her job? It would have helped side to have warlord that is more decisive and ruthless.Then that flower stopped working, and Olive went from that flower to the next in the colour spectrum until the last in flower colour spectrum (pink one). And, as you said above, after that CW and Heir became Overlord, addicted to drugs and in search of next fix, would you really still obey that person?
Don't click on this link, you might feel cheated if you do.
Hint:
Spoiler: show
It's my fanfiction. :)


My erf PC game (first test version): Jack Attack Update: Gone after fall of megaupload. Update2: Uploaded again on another hosting. Give it a go.
youngstormlord
I am a Tool!
I am a Tool!
 
Posts: 115
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 7:48 am

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 051

Postby Eva » Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:53 pm

Whoa -- what if Erfworld predates Oz?

When Parson goes back to Earth, he can tell the story, and it becomes the Wizard of Oz.

We've been assuming Earth stories --> Erfworld, but maybe Erfworld --> Earth stories.
Eva
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:35 pm

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 051

Postby drachefly » Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:03 pm

We saw easily enough stupidworld to date it after the Oz books.
User avatar
drachefly
 
Posts: 1592
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:36 pm

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 051

Postby Whispri » Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:09 pm

More to the point, Parson's directly referred to the Wizard of Oz at least twice that I recall, once upon his summoning and then later something about Dorothy getting home by killing. The story could still be Erf inspired though. Who knows how long ago it was that Efbaum fell? Or how long Gillian will spend in this prison?
Whispri
YOTD + Erfabet Supporter!
YOTD + Erfabet Supporter!
 
Posts: 643
Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 9:02 pm

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 051

Postby Aquillion » Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:19 pm

Sonic Screwdriver wrote:Yeah, Judy's use of the word kill shows greater indication that she's from Stupidworld, not Charlie. This means that the most powerful city in the world was taken by a Stupidworlder, and that city was Charlie's. Now that Charlie has survived defeat by such an individual, and obviously regained quite a bit of power as Charlescomm, don't you think you'd be kind of desperate to take out a new person from Stupidworld?
In the Wizard of Oz, both Dorothy and the Wizard are from Earth.

Just a thought.

name lips wrote:The Wizard had no magic. He was a humbug, a fake. His power was in making everybody else think he was powerful. His reputation alone was enough to protect his city.

But clearly Charlie really does have the Arkendish. But I'm getting the feeling that beyond that he's... nothing. He has no special powers, no special talents, no special powers, no special anything. He's just a man.

He's Charlie from Charlies Angels -- the man behind the microphone, too paranoid to allow even his most trusted agents to see him. But he's also the Wizard behind the curtain, too afraid to admit he's a fake, a nobody. He's willing to manipulate and coerce, but take away the Dish, and he's nothing. So what would he fear beyond all else? Losing the Dish of course... he can't allow any danger. He can't expose himself. He has to protect himself with layer after layer of protections, tricks, deceptions. He makes plans within plans, deceptions within deceptions. He can't take the risk that anybody know the truth.

Which means he is probably much more vulnerable and fragile than anybody realizes.
"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain! He's not even there. And even if he is, he isn't."
Aquillion
 
Posts: 213
Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 4:45 am

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 051

Postby youngstormlord » Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:33 pm

Aquillion wrote:
Sonic Screwdriver wrote:Yeah, Judy's use of the word kill shows greater indication that she's from Stupidworld, not Charlie. This means that the most powerful city in the world was taken by a Stupidworlder, and that city was Charlie's. Now that Charlie has survived defeat by such an individual, and obviously regained quite a bit of power as Charlescomm, don't you think you'd be kind of desperate to take out a new person from Stupidworld?
In the Wizard of Oz, both Dorothy and the Wizard are from Earth.

Just a thought.

name lips wrote:The Wizard had no magic. He was a humbug, a fake. His power was in making everybody else think he was powerful. His reputation alone was enough to protect his city.

But clearly Charlie really does have the Arkendish. But I'm getting the feeling that beyond that he's... nothing. He has no special powers, no special talents, no special powers, no special anything. He's just a man.

He's Charlie from Charlies Angels -- the man behind the microphone, too paranoid to allow even his most trusted agents to see him. But he's also the Wizard behind the curtain, too afraid to admit he's a fake, a nobody. He's willing to manipulate and coerce, but take away the Dish, and he's nothing. So what would he fear beyond all else? Losing the Dish of course... he can't allow any danger. He can't expose himself. He has to protect himself with layer after layer of protections, tricks, deceptions. He makes plans within plans, deceptions within deceptions. He can't take the risk that anybody know the truth.

Which means he is probably much more vulnerable and fragile than anybody realizes.
"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain! He's not even there. And even if he is, he isn't."


Or, Charlie could be same as Parson: A guy that can enter Magic Kingdom because he has magical ability as caster. There are some indications that Parson could be Signamancer. Could it be that Charlie could be Carnymancer the same way?
Don't click on this link, you might feel cheated if you do.
Hint:
Spoiler: show
It's my fanfiction. :)


My erf PC game (first test version): Jack Attack Update: Gone after fall of megaupload. Update2: Uploaded again on another hosting. Give it a go.
youngstormlord
I am a Tool!
I am a Tool!
 
Posts: 115
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 7:48 am

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 051

Postby drachefly » Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:39 pm

Weird little coincidence - last night, I saw the Lost episode, "The Man Behind the Curtain".
User avatar
drachefly
 
Posts: 1592
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:36 pm

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 051

Postby Werebiscuit » Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:52 pm

Eva wrote:Whoa -- what if Erfworld predates Oz?

When Parson goes back to Earth, he can tell the story, and it becomes the Wizard of Oz.

We've been assuming Earth stories --> Erfworld, but maybe Erfworld --> Earth stories.



Sorry Eva unfortunately not possible. Parson worked at Kinko's established circa 1970 and the wizard of Oz was written in the early 1900's... so unless Parson finds a time machine he's not going back to write the book.
Werebiscuit
 
Posts: 1075
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 11:45 am

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 051

Postby KainFlinn » Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:43 pm

Longtime Listener, first time poster.

Why do all Stupidworlders have to be large, just be cause Parson is large? Outword appearances are a type of natural Signamancy are they not? This is mentioned in several places. Parson is large because he's Parson (fat, larger than life). A stupidworlder with different traits might have a different natural signamancy.
KainFlinn
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:38 pm

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 051

Postby Denar » Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:04 pm

KainFlinn wrote:Longtime Listener, first time poster.

Why do all Stupidworlders have to be large, just be cause Parson is large? Outword appearances are a type of natural Signamancy are they not? This is mentioned in several places. Parson is large because he's Parson (fat, larger than life). A stupidworlder with different traits might have a different natural signamancy.


First time poster too! I think you're right!
I don't think people age at ALL in erfworld. But signamancy will dictate changes in their appearance, so those who have been around a while and display character of "wisdom" (for example) begin to look sagely.
So if we assume Dorothy came to erfworld as a girl, she's still a girl, but signamancy has changed her appearance to be old and decayed because of her addiction.
Denar
 
Posts: 102
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:01 pm

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 051

Postby Tathar » Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:37 pm

bladestorm wrote:I already expressed thoughts that Charlie could be a Carnimancer. The Wizard references reinforce that, and that he was relying upon the Arkendish for the unmatched Thinkamancy as a distraction from his real powers. A new thought comes to me. What if the Arkendish isn't an arkentool? What if it is all a ruse, and no side dares go against Charlescomm because they believe he has a powerful Arkentool that allows him to pop Archon and master Thinkamancy? And if the Arkentools were used by the Titans to build Erfworld, what did they use the Dish for? Pliers and Hammer can be used to build things, but a satellite dish?

Archons are capable of popping in any city, but the odds of them popping are very rare. Charlie could have ceased production of every other unit type aside from Archon, so that his only option for popping a unit at any given time is a choice of Archon, Archon, or Archon (opposed to hobgobwin, gobwin, twoll, infantry stabber, piker, dwagon, spidew, or archer). The Dish itself is just a prop that has some carnymancy spells triggered onto it to make it seem like something special, when it is really just a cardboard cutout and always only ever seen at a distance. The thinkamancy could be a network of Archons combined with a thinkamancer/thinkamancer/thinkamancer trilink. Charlie using three master class thinkamancers (especially f they were very important thinkamancers) to make a very dangerous link may be more cause for concern among tGMtTA than Charlie knowing a few of their techniques and horning in on their territory.

Which bring up part of why Isaac would also invest heavily into other disciplines and make all of his playground toys. Three master Thinkamancers went missing, both physically and from the gstrings, so he made all of his stuff so that he could track them down.

Also, for the summon perfect warlord spell, the parameters could be set different on each summoning. When Judy got summoned, they may have specified that they wanted someone who could croak the wicked witches and defeat the wizard. Just like when Parson was summoned, he was NOT what Stanley had envisioned. He met all of the criteria, but not what he envisioned at ALL. Eventually, Stanley got Ansom, made him CWL, and Parson was basically imprisoned in the Tower of Effdup and made to do daily rounds. Judy, through raw bumbling, killed the witches and 'defeated' the wizard. Just because the summoners didn't get what they wanted, that doesn't mean they didn't get what they asked for.

Being that this update is hitting right before the weekend, I'll probably return to it to chew through it some more. It actually makes for much better timing for me, especially since it was so dense with references a speculation points. Though the expression on Jillian's face is not helping me to fully wake up any faster...

The idea of the Arkendish not being a real Arkentool falls apart when you realize that it has the same "3D model" look as the Arkentools.
Beeskee wrote:I was reluctant to assume Charlie was the Wizard, since it seems like if a butterfly farts in an unmapped hex, we're all ready to assume it's somehow part of Charlie's grand schemes to control the wind or whatever.
Tathar
Tool + YOTD Supporter!
Tool + YOTD Supporter!
 
Posts: 96
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:58 am

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 051

Postby Tathar » Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:48 pm

Radagast wrote:
Nueamin wrote:
Lamech wrote:Judy can't be from Stupidworld. She if she was she would have a big fat WTFHAXXS! sign hanging from her in the form of no visible points.


This is a very valid point and I would say dismisses the possibility of Judy being anything but an Erfworldian except for Jillian is so very drugged up and before that so very focused and one minded on finding her next fix that she could have possibly missed that. I still give it a 9 out of 10 chance Judy is from Erfworld


Actually I thought this proved the point, not the other way around. Jillian almost stepped on her, which kinda hints that there wasn't a little stat box hanging over her. Not to mention she couldn't tell by looking at her that she was an Overlady.

Is Overlady a stat?
Beeskee wrote:I was reluctant to assume Charlie was the Wizard, since it seems like if a butterfly farts in an unmapped hex, we're all ready to assume it's somehow part of Charlie's grand schemes to control the wind or whatever.
Tathar
Tool + YOTD Supporter!
Tool + YOTD Supporter!
 
Posts: 96
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:58 am

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 051

Postby Tathar » Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:53 pm

Nnelg wrote:I agree with Radagast, Jillian most likely just hasn't noticed the missing box. After all, she isn't the most observant person even when she isn't high.

Now you gotta give Jillian more credit. She might not be very smart, but she is very experienced in combat. One of the first things she typically does is size her opponent up, and that involves checking their stats. She would know immediately if she couldn't see someone's stats.
Beeskee wrote:I was reluctant to assume Charlie was the Wizard, since it seems like if a butterfly farts in an unmapped hex, we're all ready to assume it's somehow part of Charlie's grand schemes to control the wind or whatever.
Tathar
Tool + YOTD Supporter!
Tool + YOTD Supporter!
 
Posts: 96
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:58 am

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 051

Postby bladestorm » Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:46 pm

Tathar wrote:
bladestorm wrote:I already expressed thoughts that Charlie could be a Carnimancer. The Wizard references reinforce that, and that he was relying upon the Arkendish for the unmatched Thinkamancy as a distraction from his real powers. A new thought comes to me. What if the Arkendish isn't an arkentool? What if it is all a ruse, and no side dares go against Charlescomm because they believe he has a powerful Arkentool that allows him to pop Archon and master Thinkamancy? And if the Arkentools were used by the Titans to build Erfworld, what did they use the Dish for? Pliers and Hammer can be used to build things, but a satellite dish?

Archons are capable of popping in any city, but the odds of them popping are very rare. Charlie could have ceased production of every other unit type aside from Archon, so that his only option for popping a unit at any given time is a choice of Archon, Archon, or Archon (opposed to hobgobwin, gobwin, twoll, infantry stabber, piker, dwagon, spidew, or archer). The Dish itself is just a prop that has some carnymancy spells triggered onto it to make it seem like something special, when it is really just a cardboard cutout and always only ever seen at a distance. The thinkamancy could be a network of Archons combined with a thinkamancer/thinkamancer/thinkamancer trilink. Charlie using three master class thinkamancers (especially f they were very important thinkamancers) to make a very dangerous link may be more cause for concern among tGMtTA than Charlie knowing a few of their techniques and horning in on their territory.

Which bring up part of why Isaac would also invest heavily into other disciplines and make all of his playground toys. Three master Thinkamancers went missing, both physically and from the gstrings, so he made all of his stuff so that he could track them down.

Also, for the summon perfect warlord spell, the parameters could be set different on each summoning. When Judy got summoned, they may have specified that they wanted someone who could croak the wicked witches and defeat the wizard. Just like when Parson was summoned, he was NOT what Stanley had envisioned. He met all of the criteria, but not what he envisioned at ALL. Eventually, Stanley got Ansom, made him CWL, and Parson was basically imprisoned in the Tower of Effdup and made to do daily rounds. Judy, through raw bumbling, killed the witches and 'defeated' the wizard. Just because the summoners didn't get what they wanted, that doesn't mean they didn't get what they asked for.

Being that this update is hitting right before the weekend, I'll probably return to it to chew through it some more. It actually makes for much better timing for me, especially since it was so dense with references a speculation points. Though the expression on Jillian's face is not helping me to fully wake up any faster...

The idea of the Arkendish not being a real Arkentool falls apart when you realize that it has the same "3D model" look as the Arkentools.

All that means is that he put more effort into his con. Forumites also jumped at the opportunity of Jillian's queenly garb as possible arkentool art. Nothing falls apart. There are four known arkentools. Wanda made an attempt at the Hammer, and that fell through. She made an attempt at the Pliers on several occasions and finally attuned to them. Not once did she mention going after the Arkendish. If Charlie is the wizard, he's already been defeated once. Why would she not finish the job and attune to the dish? Olive's power, plus uncroaking, plus the Arkendish would make for a virtually untouchable side. The Arkendish could still be a ruse that is finally coming back to bite Charlescomm in the boop. He's lied about having an Arkentool for so long that now everyone believes the lie and he is being associated with the real Toolists.
bladestorm
 
Posts: 665
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 10:11 pm

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 051

Postby Sieggy » Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:11 pm

"Known". If that ain't a Chekhov's Phaser, I don't know what is . . . Besides, you have the Illuminati 'Law of Fives', and we ALL know the Illuminati is behind EVERYTHING. (Formally stated, "Every phenomenon can be divided into five distinct portions. Depending on the ingenuity of the observer")
The Truth Will Set You Free. But First It Will Piss You Off.
User avatar
Sieggy
 
Posts: 392
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:35 pm
Location: SW Florida

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 051

Postby Housellama » Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:17 pm

Do you know what strikes me as particularly interesting about this post?

If the ruler of el-Elfbaum is Charlie, then history appears to be repeating itself. In the story, Oz was a large, powerful and oppressive kingdom, but ruled from only one place, the Emerald City. "Elfbaum". It was, for a while, the most powerful city in the world. It was also described as being "very powerful in magic". This makes me think that the ruler of Elfbaum already had the Arkendish. It was conquered by a Side that rules through Hippymancy. Judy let him go, and believes she is being punished by Olive for that.

Flash forward to the present. Charlie knows he got beat last time, and only got away by the skin of his teeth, so he got sneaky this time around. He doesn't rule outright, he rules from the background. Harder to dethrone when you're ruling from outside the system. The Hippiemancers know this. In the past, direct conflict failed (as Olive nee Judy let Charlie get away), so they're getting sneaky too. This time, they put together a plot to take down Charlie. Sure, there are others involved, but I think the Hippymancers and the Predictamancers were the once that smoothed the way for everything. They let the Thinkamancers believe it was their idea and got them on board. Instead of trying to beat Charlie directly, they bring in a ringer. Someone who can beat Charlie at his own game. Someone who can outthink Charlie. Someone who, most importantly, has his own motivations for breaking the system.

That's what I take away from this. Where Judy is from will come out in the wash. History repeating itself? That applies to the future as well.
"All warfare is based on deception" - Sun Tzu, Chapter 1, Line 18, The Art of War

"The principle of strategy is to know ten thousand things by having one thing." - Miyamoto Musashi, The Book of Earth, Go Rin No Sho
User avatar
Housellama
Tool + YOTD Supporter!
Tool + YOTD Supporter!
 
Posts: 499
Joined: Thu May 21, 2009 6:42 pm

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 051

Postby Urf » Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:57 pm

Why are we assuming Charlie "likes" blue? Is there a reference to Charlescomm being blue?
Urf
 
Posts: 129
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2010 2:35 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Reactions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

cron