Erfgame 3 (CLOSED) - Rules and Discussion

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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Kaed » Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:27 pm

Exate wrote:
Kaed wrote:Ex is taking a geological epoch to respond
Ouch, Kaed. That hurts, and considering that I've averaged just under one PM to you per day since the start of November says interesting things about the natural dirtamancy of wherever you live.

Koliup wrote:one of the Heavy Stabbers who was sent on a ruin pillaging mission
You get ruins? Lucky bastard; I haven't found a one. I need more scouts, I guess. My courtier will be so pleased.


Hee, I was trying to encourage you to make an update.

And ex you silly billy. You've found three ruins. One in the swamp and two others to the north. You just have yet to explore any of them.

You were aware city sites and ruins are one and the same in this version, right?
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Exate » Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:32 pm

Kaed wrote:You were aware city sites and ruins are one and the same in this version, right?
...no, actually, I wasn't. They're quite distinct in the comic proper; ruins are just sites where barbarians, magic items, and artifacts pop while city sites are locations where you can build a city. Where was it decided that we're playing with them as the same? I must have missed that ruling somehow.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby 0beron » Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:32 pm

Kaed wrote:You were aware city sites and ruins are one and the same in this version, right?
I certainly wasn't.....LOL Seeing as they're distinct in the comic, that might have been a helpful difference to note haha :p
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Kaed » Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:55 pm

Yes yes I am aware they are separate entities. But this world is not erfworld sized, so for the sake of not having everyone up either to their necks in ruins and cities, or hardly have room for any, they have been temporarily lumped into single entities.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby 0beron » Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:58 pm

Duly noted! haha, not refuting your logic, just pointing out that we hadn't been told, that's all.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Namrufus » Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:16 am

I've been watching this for a while, it looks really cool to play. Its fun piecing together a little bit what what is going on in in the game from the little bits that you're posting here :). When this is game finished I hope you post your full stories so we can see the history of the world.

--- I have a couple of questions about the mechanics tho...

For scouts under your rules, it says they get a special that gives a "very limited thinkamancy" does this mean that all sides have scouts like transylvito doombats that can report information thinkamantically within 20 hexes (only to a unit or warlord of that side, maybe?)?

I was also wondering about heavy units, the heavy special is mentioned a few times in the rules in what seems to be contradictory ways:
- over 15 hp
- bought a heavy special or promoted to heavy
- D-class units

Does this mean that anything above 15 hp or a D-class cannot take the heavy special on top of it's already 'natural' heavy class? Do the 'natural' heavies get +5/+3/+3/+0 or does this just entail the no riding, no tunnels restriction?

Under your rules, what units can be promoted to knight? Only infantry type units (stabbers, pikers, archers, scouts) or can other special 'knight' (humanoid) units be promoted to knights on the field? (I'm thinking something like Transalvitan Skanks (Which are described as knight-class Guard Goyles) or knight class hobgobwins)

how are you handling the stack bonus? Something like +0/+1/+1/+0 per unit in the stack up to 8? Do you have any mechanic that prevents a single giant stack per hex/city zone as the optimal deployment?

anyway, sorry if these are stupid questions.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Koliup » Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:41 am

Namrufus wrote:Good Questions.


Allow me to answer these as best as possible. But first: Dang, I was watching my email like a hawk and when you posted this I thought Kaed had sent me updates. :(.
Anyway. Limited Thinkamancy means that you can see what they see, to an extent. They automagically give you reports on what they see. Yeah, we do all have them.

Heavy units, even if it wasn't bought(the 5/3/3/0 deal) are still subject to the problems, yes. I don't think you can re-buy Heavy. But an argument could be made for it anyway. We're not Nazis. So yeah, you have to buy the special for it to take effect(5/3/3/0), under current rules. But the only unit it automatically takes effect(the heavy status, not the stat bonus) for is beef enough it's not a problem, usually. If you have it automatically, you probably don't need it. If you don't, you can get it. I actually proposed a (4/2/2/0) version, that would give the Heavy the ability to use tunnels back. Cheaper than buying burrowing as well, I think. You can't hide, not even in your bunkers.

I think only standard infantry can be knighted. But I'm not sure. However, specials have two versions: Beast and Knight class. While you do bring up a good point on the Knighted Skanks, we may have to get Kaed's input. Still, I think any Knight class Specials could be knighted. But infantry for sure. As for natural allies? Yeah, I think they technically count as infantry, Knight class. So they can probably be knighted. And yes, there is a difference between Knight class(humanoid special) and a knight(the unit). A Skank could be a knight Knight class.

The additional units over 8 provide only 0/1/1/0 for each one over 8, I think. So if you have a 9 Wretch stack, the 9th Wretch will only provide 0/1/1/0 to his stack, instead of his (laughable) 0/4/1/0. Note they still have their own personal HP and Move. But I listed them as 0 due to being.. unimportant in this example.

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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby 0beron » Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:37 am

Yeah Koilup covered most of it.

A scout's thinkamancy just basically passes on the information they gather within a short range. So as they explore the terrain, you know what that terrain is, and you know if there are enemy units in sight. (only commanders have stat-o-vision though). The ability doesn't allow you to actually "see" through their eyes though, you just get info.

We determined that units with more than a certain number of Hits at pop are "treated" like heavy in the sense that they can't ride or enter tunnels. I think 15 is that number (it's what the rules presently say) but we may adjust that as a result of the playtest. Units that are "naturally heavy" COULD buy the heavy special or be promoted, but it's very unlikely that would occur since it's always more cost effective to buy the Heavy Special than it is to give them enough hits on-pop to be considered "Heavy".

It is correct that Infantry are the only ones illegible for promotion to Knight. However, this includes Natural Allies that are classified as Infantry (like Marbits and Gowbins and the like).

As for stack bonuses, I have no idea because that is a secret mechanic only the Titan knows. I would assume it's +1 to Com and Def for each unit up to 8, and any units added after that gain the bonus but don't increase it beyond 8.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Kaed » Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:27 am

0beron wrote:As for stack bonuses, I have no idea because that is a secret mechanic only the Titan knows. I would assume it's +1 to Com and Def for each unit up to 8, and any units added after that gain the bonus but don't increase it beyond 8.


The bonus applies to attack and defense, and is equal to the number of units in the stack (with one unit getting no stack bonus)
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Lord of Monies » Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:27 am

So yeah, I should have mentioned that I'd be afk from tuesday-now. Went to see friends for a few days, drinking ensued as scheduled. Back now for a new turn! Yay! As usual, I dread whatever might be the case.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Kaed » Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:56 pm

I see you there Monieman. Reply to your update >:I
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Lord of Monies » Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:13 pm

I'm torn for a decision. Eh, boop it, simplicity may lead to stupidity with hindsight, but simplicity is also simple.

edit: So, the more of this I write out, the less simple it seems. Dis game, m i rite?
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Koliup » Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:15 pm

You guys don't know anything about motivating troops, I bet.
All you gotta do is threaten to disband them if they displease you. That'll keep em fighting, and in line.

Actually, I did have a question: you know how cities that go barbarian are just frozen in time, but still staffed with their original complement of units?
Well, can the barbarian cities 'recognize' warlords from their recently destroyed side, and join them/choose not to attack? Or are they magically compelled to fight any visiting units from the barbarian remains of their side?
What else..
Oh yeah. Why do popped heirs tend to be treacherous/antithetical towards the Ruler? Don King had that problem. Twice. And Jillian was a fighter, not a philosopher. Only one we've seen turn out alright was probably Ansom. And further, is this feature in the playtest? Court intrigue goooo!
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby 0beron » Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:06 am

Koliup wrote:All you gotta do is threaten to disband them if they displease you. That'll keep em fighting, and in line.
Oh not necessarily true...I just pulled this tactic and I'm not so sure it went over well....

Koliup wrote:Well, can the barbarian cities 'recognize' warlords from their recently destroyed side, and join them/choose not to attack? Or are they magically compelled to fight any visiting units from the barbarian remains of their side?
All that is said in the comic is that the units only "defend themselves" and mostly get "picked off one by one" by invading units. So I would assume that if a barbarian of their former side comes in, all they have to do is not attack their former allies, and they're fine.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Lord of Monies » Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:20 am

Koliup wrote:You guys don't know anything about motivating troops, I bet.
All you gotta do is threaten to disband them if they displease you. That'll keep em fighting, and in line.


I am in no position to try this myself, considering I kinda need every unit I have. The troubles of being barbarians. Still, at least my units are awesome.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Kaed » Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:00 am

Well no, not really Monies. Strictly speaking, you don't need Wrenn. If you follow House's plan of total abandonment, he's loose baggage.

In fact, when I was brainstorming House's reaction to Wrenn holding up the king, one of my ideas was him ordering Wrenn to disband when he stormed in.

But then if reconsidered, thinking that not only would that cause unnecessary drama (not that I have a problem with making drama for you, but I figured you had enough on your plate already), but it made me think about how heirarachy of power worked. In the end, I decided that when the ruler is actually standing right there talking to someone, a commanding unit can only force a lower ranking unit to disband if they honestly believe that the person is committing treachery, or they have specifically been giving jurisdiction over the city - which by implication means the ruler trusts them enough to make such decisions.

House was frustrated, but someone who just popped can hardly be committing treachery by trying to help.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Lord of Monies » Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:16 am

House's mentality in regards to Wrenn is something I intend to fix if it comes up again. Hopefully it won't come up again given the circumstances, but his consistently saying "be practical" is ignoring the sheer practicality of a whole city and a completely different unit template that might be a surprising compliment to my own, once/if I find out what the special C and D are.

That, and if House had come in and disbanded Wrenn after he just popped, I would be incredibly angry at House and threaten him with the same. My well-being is one thing, but under-mining me is another entirely.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Kaed » Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:57 am

Yeah, that's why I figured doing it would be a gross breach of protocol. Just because I have an idea doesn't mean it's a feasible one.

Though if House was in charge of the city he might do it. He is a meaniebad racist.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby 0beron » Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:31 pm

Um....since when could any Commander disband a unit anyway? That seems to have been something very clearly reserved for Rulers....
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Kaed » Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:05 pm

Hmm, that's never explicitly stated though. I think it's more most rulers reserve the right for themselves, and people understand doing it without permission can get them it trouble.

I mean. If one of the soldiers under a warlord is causing problems by leaking information to the enemy, shouldn't disbanding be an option?

I dunno. You make a possible point.
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