Decrypted turning and the implications thereof.

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Decrypted turning and the implications thereof.

Postby Smoker » Wed Oct 31, 2012 7:49 am

So now that Ossomer has shown Jetstone that you can turn back from Decryption, does it not say something that Slately, for all his newfound purpose and resolve, still has his original body destroyed?

If he was so certain of his Royal superiority, wouldn't he at least be tempted to have himself Decrypted, secure in the knowledge that his inherent righteousness would permit him to immediately turn back and have another shot at croaking the witch?

If the double didn't exist, you could easily understand Tramennis not wanting to run the risk of soiling his father's memory by allowing a situation where he possibly wouldn't turn back, but since the double is there, spending his final turn towing the company line on the Royal Mandate... well.. he's not exactly walking the walk, is he?

What would you do?
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Re: Decrypted turning and the implications thereof.

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:00 am

No, no, no. You're extrapolating too far.

His belief that Royalty is superior would not justify him trusting to be decrypted and turn back. I'd venture to say that I'm superior to a zombie but I wouldn't risk turning into one on the off chance that I may relearn how to say hello to my aunt Alicia.

So at present, the possibility of decrypted turning back implies nothing. It was a once-only event, with conditions that are poorly understood, that may not happen again. It would be a foolish risk to pretend otherwise.
The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.
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Re: Decrypted turning and the implications thereof.

Postby 0beron » Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:26 am

Agreed, think about the process a little more. In order to do that, he would in essence, be asking the inferior Toolist heathen witch for HELP. Even if he tricks her into do it with the intent to Turn back, he is still using her help to continue living. So even if he was sure that his superiority would allow him to escape her, his Royalist pride would never allow him to use that process.
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Re: Decrypted turning and the implications thereof.

Postby Shai_hulud » Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:37 am

Unless Jillian and Charlie convince her to turn and stop following Stanley. After all, Gillian already told Tremenis that she's not a "toolist" per se.
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Re: Decrypted turning and the implications thereof.

Postby 0beron » Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:42 am

....wut? Wanda is TOTALLY a Toolist. Not to the extreme that Stanley is, but she definitely believes the 'Tools are part of Fate and such. It's Charlie who is staying mum about whether he is Toolist or not.
And even if she weren't, the Royals still see Croakamancy, Decryption, and Wanda in general as an evil unholy thing.
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Re: Decrypted turning and the implications thereof.

Postby Shai_hulud » Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:49 pm

She's a Fatalist, not a Toolist as far as I can tell. It's not like there's only two religions in the setting. Adam for instance is a Scorist it seems.
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Re: Decrypted turning and the implications thereof.

Postby Lamech » Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:50 pm

Smoker wrote:So now that Ossomer has shown Jetstone that you can turn back from Decryption, does it not say something that Slately, for all his newfound purpose and resolve, still has his original body destroyed?

If he was so certain of his Royal superiority, wouldn't he at least be tempted to have himself Decrypted, secure in the knowledge that his inherent righteousness would permit him to immediately turn back and have another shot at croaking the witch?

If the double didn't exist, you could easily understand Tramennis not wanting to run the risk of soiling his father's memory by allowing a situation where he possibly wouldn't turn back, but since the double is there, spending his final turn towing the company line on the Royal Mandate... well.. he's not exactly walking the walk, is he?

What would you do?

He probably hasn't fully processed the event yet, and is still defaulting to "decrypted are unholy abominations!" eventually cognitive dissonance will set in and they'll need a new rationalization. I'm guessing they'll decide something like the decrypted are the former people, but the holy process of decryption has been perverted by Wanda corrupting and tainting the minds of their former friends. A heinous perversion of the true holy purpose of the tool. And then they will all agree that they would rather be dead that suffer such a fate. Slight possibility of the new found hate for mind control filtering down to turnamancy and thinkamancy. (Charlie, Jillian? This means you.)

Its a good rationalization because then they can
1) Declare GK evil.
2) Rationalize Ossomer, and hope to turn other fallen friends in special cases.
3) Kill decrypted.
4) Use the arkenpliers if they ever attune. (Or if they turn Wanda.)
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Re: Decrypted turning and the implications thereof.

Postby Smoker » Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:26 am

Lamech wrote:He probably hasn't fully processed the event yet, and is still defaulting to "decrypted are unholy abominations!" ...


Yeah, and I think the best reason for the aversion to uncroaking and decrypting is that it challenges the belief of the City of Heroes. Shouldn't Ossomer actually be having tea with the titans, instead of being brought back to life? The fact that he appeared to have no sense of existing between croaking and decryption doesn't help this theory. That being the case, any action that presents this uncomfortable discrepancy would be avoided at all costs.

Although having said that, IIRC the wiki suggests that a unit doesn't enter the COH until night, when all turns have ended for that day. I think this is based on a line from Vinny... so its not like it blows the COH belief out of the water.

BLANDCorporatio wrote:No, no, no. You're extrapolating too far.

Most certainly, but if you were in a situation where you really HAD to kill Wanda to have any reasonable chance of survival, and you knew that getting yourself decrypted was a great way to get within striking distance, and you knew that it was at least possible to change back (seemingly) based on previous loyalties and/or ideas of nobility, and you were resolute that Royal units were made of tougher moral stuff than your non-royals... I'd at least be discussing the pros and cons.
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Re: Decrypted turning and the implications thereof.

Postby Lamech » Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:00 pm

Smoker wrote:Most certainly, but if you were in a situation where you really HAD to kill Wanda to have any reasonable chance of survival, and you knew that getting yourself decrypted was a great way to get within striking distance, and you knew that it was at least possible to change back (seemingly) based on previous loyalties and/or ideas of nobility, and you were resolute that Royal units were made of tougher moral stuff than your non-royals... I'd at least be discussing the pros and cons.
Con: Decrypted me might be king of Jetstone, and pretty thoroughly devastate my side before I turn back.
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Re: Decrypted turning and the implications thereof.

Postby Smoker » Thu Nov 01, 2012 5:53 pm

Quite right. Better to have a battlebear chuck Tramennis over the Garrison walls.
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Re: Decrypted turning and the implications thereof.

Postby conmor » Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:17 am

don't let tremmanis hear you saying that or he might think that it is a good idea. he probably would too.
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