Darkness Rising - Strategy & Discussions

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Re: Darkness Rising - Strategy & Discussions

Postby Nnelg » Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:22 pm

Werebiscuit wrote: Let's try to fool the elves into the misjudgement that we are thinking conventionally. We should produce siege resources and set them up to take either Logans Run or Scarlett Hills but that should serve as a distraction.

Hm, actually I've thought of a better way to do this. Instead of actually building this siege, Nemo could whip up some illusions.

However, I'd rather not let the enemy know our side has a foolamancer until several fully-loaded Balrugs de-crypsis directly over a city garrison, or something like that. Nemo could try to keep several units where he's at veiled daily to fool scouts, though -if we're willing to tip off Charlie earlier.
Last edited by Nnelg on Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Strategy & Discussions

Postby tigerusthegreat » Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:22 am

Regarding building up a PC to be a city manager, I think it'd be rather boring to do so. Any way we can use NPCs for this?
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Re: Darkness Rising - Strategy & Discussions

Postby Werebiscuit » Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:29 am

Exate wrote:If we can get a mobile enough team together- we've currently got seven Naughty Kitties, which is enough for some flexibility- it might be practical to form up a raiding unit that we can send to intercept and destroy anticipated enemy reinforcements before they have a chance to properly gather. .


On the subject of a raiding party, we have imps that make perfect scouts. Marbit is it possible for each rider to carry a body ? If so we have a mobile cavalry with artillery support given a couple of rounds preparation ( which our imps should easily provide).
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Re: Darkness Rising - Strategy & Discussions

Postby Werebiscuit » Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:42 am

Nnelg wrote:
Werebiscuit wrote: Let's try to fool the elves into the misjudgement that we are thinking conventionally. We should produce siege resources and set them up to take either Logans Run or Scarlett Hills but that should serve as a distraction.

Hm, actually I've thought of a better way to do this. Instead of actually building this siege, Nemo could whip up some illusions.



Ahem, the point in building up siege is that we'll actually use it at some point. Now, your idea is good to make them think we're capable of hitting Logan's Run AND Scarlett Hills but I'd prefer we make them think we're capable of hitting one ( Let's say Scarlett Hills) forcing them to reinforce it when we're actually going to hit the other ( Logan's Run) which is deprived of reinforcements.
Once we've taken the depeleted defences of Logans Run we redeploy the siege against Rainbow Springs..,or,..and this could be where you come in again...we make them think we have and wait for them to reinforce.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Strategy & Discussions

Postby CroverusRaven » Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:48 am

tigerusthegreat wrote:Regarding building up a PC to be a city manager, I think it'd be rather boring to do so. Any way we can use NPCs for this?


Depends on what the GM has the PC doing as daily tasks. Doe they get to manage the build orders of the city? Decide when to upgrade defenses, deal with small attacks on the city or perform raids on the surrounding region searching for resources?
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Re: Darkness Rising - Strategy & Discussions

Postby LTDave » Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:55 am

I suspect that our GM would prefer smaller encounters than massive hundred unit battles attacking cities.

I expect that future encounters will be much more managable.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Strategy & Discussions

Postby Nnelg » Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:22 am

LTDave wrote:I suspect that our GM would prefer smaller encounters than massive hundred unit battles attacking cities.
MarbitChow wrote:Personally, I want to be able to have large-scale battles like this [the Battle of Dis City]
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Re: Darkness Rising - Strategy & Discussions

Postby tigerusthegreat » Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:36 am

Musing about a manager/inspiration build:

lvl1-3 [5 AP total, skip well armed or well protected until later for archers]
Regent (1 AP)
Leadership (3 AP)
[option of Well Armed or Well Protected] (1 AP)

lvl 4-6: [Inspiration Build]
Paragon (1 AP)
Inspiration (1 AP)
Improved Leadership (1 AP)

lvl 7-9
Option of Guardian or Berserker [1 AP] (well armed or well protected here for archers)
Commanding Leadership [1 AP]
Trainer [1 AP] (or Guardian or Berserker if archer)

At lvl 4, this build provides a bonus of +1 combat and defense inspiration bonus and +3 combat and defense leadership bonus
At lvl 5 this increases to include a permanent +1 combat, +2 defense, +5 hits from inspiration
At lvl 6, this improves to +1 combat and defense inspiration bonus, +6 combat and defense leadership bonus, +1 combat, +2 defense and +5 hits from inspiration special

Non-Archers:
lvl 7: Gains +5 to either combat or defense, +1 combat and defense inspiration bonus, +6 combat and defense leadership bonus, +1 combat, +2 defense and +5 hits from inspiration special
lvl 8: +5 to either combat or defense, +1 combat and defense inspiration bonus, +8 combat and defense leadership bonus, +1 combat, +2 defense and +5 hits from inspiration special
lvl 9: +5 to either combat or defense, +1 combat and defense inspiration bonus, +9 combat and defense leadership bonus, +1 combat, +2 defense and +5 hits from inspiration special.

So, Regus, for example, leading a stack of lvl 1 spearmen at Regus lvl 9 (assuming he went the defense route) would have a stack of soldiers with effectively 16a/21d/19hits, while Regus himself would have 15a/22d/46hits and 24 combat stats (as well as no ability to buff himself with combat modifiers)
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Re: Darkness Rising - Strategy & Discussions

Postby tigerusthegreat » Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:42 am

Needless to say, I'd much rather Regus be a field commander, only wasting AP on the leadership line, and using the rest of my AP to buff my combat abilities. The real benefit to the above build is for city defense. I imagine an archery warlord with the above build (scrapping Trainer at lvl 9) would make our cities very hard to decimate. If even our lvl 1 archers had 23 attack, they could be very dangerous indeed.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Strategy & Discussions

Postby Exate » Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:33 pm

You've neglected the possibility of banking AP in your build there. Because AP can be banked, it's possible to buy multiple abilities which require being a certain level immediately upon reaching that level- in this case, allowing for this build:
1 - Leadership
2 - Regent
3 - (Bank)
4 - Paragon and Inspiration (or should we want a city to focus on popping non-infantry units, Comptroller and Logistician)

This lets us immediately start cranking out elites as soon as the warlord in question reaches level 4, or level 5 for an archer warlord- very useful, because leveling really starts slowing down around that point. Comptroller and Logistician are the highest priorities after that; only once all relevant managerial abilities have been taken should they muck about with upgrading their Leadership/Paragon bonuses, because their value to the side lies in matters other than direct combat. It's not as strong in direct defense of the city as what you propose- but the extra schmuckers and UP add up, turn by turn, into extra units and capabilities that will hopefully matter much more than even an exceptionally strong stack. Popping elite troops is almost like popping them at level 2, and both UP and schmuckers are a scarce resource for us right now.

Admittedly it's not a glamorous build, but I would consider it essential- and lay odds that the elves are fielding at least a couple management-specced warlords already.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Strategy & Discussions

Postby 0beron » Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:41 pm

I want to point out that we don't have to devote PCs to this manager idea. Like I said earlier, I think our best strategy for long-term success is to send Bill and Vinny on separate power-leveling missions. We send with them an escort of living units, and that escort can and definitely should include these manager units.
So next thing I think we should do is start popping these units that we can turn into Managers.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Strategy & Discussions

Postby MarbitChow » Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:31 pm

Werebiscuit wrote:Marbit is it possible for each rider to carry a body ?
Riders can't carry bodies (it's too clumsy), but I'd allow each mount to carry one body in addition to its standard rider, if it makes sense based on the creature type. Naughty Kitties and Bad Asses, for example, could each carry a body plus a rider, but Balrugs can only carry 4 units. A body would need to replace a living (or uncroaked/constructed) unit, space-wise.

LTDave wrote:I suspect that our GM would prefer smaller encounters than massive hundred unit battles attacking cities. I expect that future encounters will be much more manageable.
The next few encounters after Dis City will be smaller, certainly, but as has been pointed out, I do like the large-scale combats, and the source material has sides with thousands of units attacking each other. It won't get that crazy; having large cities (Level 4 & 5) where the action is divided up into smaller encounters is probably the way to go, but I honestly don't want to limit you guys at all, other than by the rules themselves. If you manage to raise armies a thousand units strong, you'll be able to use that.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Strategy & Discussions

Postby Werebiscuit » Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:45 am

MarbitChow wrote:The next few encounters after Dis City will be smaller, certainly, but as has been pointed out, I do like the large-scale combats, and the source material has sides with thousands of units attacking each other. It won't get that crazy; having large cities (Level 4 & 5) where the action is divided up into smaller encounters is probably the way to go, but I honestly don't want to limit you guys at all, other than by the rules themselves. If you manage to raise armies a thousand units strong, you'll be able to use that.

Wow Marbit... that's quite a commitment. I'm impressed(and grateful) at the amount of work you're prepared to put in.
Hopefully, we'll be able to keep enconters to the small scale since the elves can out produce us unless we can make and hold gains very quickly.

Maybe one large final battle at the eleven capital if things continue to go our way but for the moment our strength is in hitting quickly and intensely and in unexpected places. I'll certainly be trying to maximise our position by promoting chipping away at the elves where they're weakest.

Anyway, just wanted to say - Thanks for your commitment, thus far !
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Re: Darkness Rising - Strategy & Discussions

Postby Werebiscuit » Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:56 am

Marbit, we spotted the elves with our imps and an uncroaked before they reached Dis. It should thus be possible to determine which elven city Armolad and her merry men came from but this was never established.
I've tried to formulate a timeline to help determine their travel but I'm not sure the distances work can you verify it ?


    Turn -2 Heroes form up and move to farm ( 22 hexes distance) Siege moves to Sunshine dale
    Turn -1 14 hexes from farm
    Turn 0 6 hexes from farm
    Turn 1 Heroes attack farm 14 hexes from sunshine dale
    Turn 2 6 hexes from sunshine Dale
    Turn 3 Forces take Sunshine Dale/Dis city Elves set out for Dis
    Turn 4 Heroes discover ruins Elves march 8 towards Dis
    Turn 5 Hereoes complete ruins. Elves complete 16 towards DIs
    Turn 6Meeting with "Charlie's Ang...er Archons" Elves complete 24 towards Dis
    Turn 7 Imps scout Elven column Elves complete 32 towards Dis
    Turn 8 "Diplomacy" talks with elves Elves complete 40 towards Dis
    Turn 9 Battle to hold Dis Elves complete a MAX of 48 Towards Dis

Note during turn 8 they are close enough for us to parley and that they can have moved a max of 48 by turn 9- so this rules out Scarlet Hills as their starting point. The 40 distance marched seems to make Rainbow Springs likeliest as they could have reached us in Turn 8 from Logan's Run.


Why is establishing their starting point so important ? Well...it's likely to be stripped down to the bones defence-wise to mount their assault. Thus it should be where we hit next (if we can hit quickly). It's also the likeliest place that they'll be sending reinforcements to if we want to intercept them. Logic seems to make Rainbow Springs the place to hit next but I'm intrigued to see which route they were actually on.

So Marbit, since we spotted them en route....do we know where that route leads from ?

{EDIT} Bah...after all that work. I read back to try to find how far out they were when they parleyed and RIGHT THERE on page 75, stumble across that they were from Rainbow Springs after all :x :oops: :roll:
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Re: Darkness Rising - Strategy & Discussions

Postby MarbitChow » Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:40 am

Thanks, and sorry that this week has been very slow. I've been on vacation all this week, and have been avoiding the computer for the most part. (After putting in an 8-hour day in front of one, spending another hour or two isn't a big deal, but this week I haven't had as much enthusiasm for sitting in front of one. :) ) Regular updates will resume shortly, I promise.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Strategy & Discussions

Postby Werebiscuit » Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:54 am

Ok so The elves came from Rainbow springs. 6 turns ago.

That means it has had little o time to replenish defences, so far.
we have choices to attack
    Logan's Run (LR)~4 turns away on foot 3 by kitty
    Rainbow Spring (RS)~ 6 turns away on foot 4 by kitty
    or Scarlett Hills(SH) ~7 turns away on foot 5 by kitty
By the time we can get there Rainbow springs will have had 10 turns to replenish defences. If it's anything over a level 2 it could be brimming and have more reinforcements lined up coming in from the other cities. It's beginning to look like Logan's Run is the best option after all.
Most of the reinforcements for RS will be low level reinforcements though. If we can hit them in open ground when they've no support -they're toast

At the moment I believe we have 3 imps. These should be despatched to permenantly observe LR, RS & SH while we use up a turn's resources to pop 8 more at Dis. My reasoning being that we need to observe their other cities and know how far they are spread to work out what they can hit us with, where it's going...and where to hit them, so it hurts. We will start getting info in 3 turns...2 for LR. giving us valuable info on defences and units.
Until we have that info we'll have to second guess.

In light of all of the above I'm for mounting a kitty raid on Logan's Run. We can call it off if we recieve adverse info from the imp in 2 turns time.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Strategy & Discussions

Postby Exate » Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:19 am

Werebiscuit wrote:By the time we can get there Rainbow springs will have had 10 turns to replenish defences. If it's anything over a level 2 it could be brimming and have more reinforcements lined up coming in from the other cities. It's beginning to look like Logan's Run is the best option after all.
How do you come to this conclusion? Rainbow Springs is the weakest that it will ever be right now; since we only really cheesed off the elves on turn 8, it's likely that only high-move units will have had time to reinforce it if we move against it immediately. Give them an extra half-dozen turns and we'll have at least two and perhaps as many as four cities' worth of reinforcements pouring into there, making it essentially impossible to take without an exceptionally bloody fight. It's vital to leave with as little delay as possible so we can take it while it's still relatively weak.

I'm not saying that it'll be easy now, of course. Fortunately, we have substantial forces gathered in Dis City at the moment, plus enough corpses for a very substantial swarm of uncroaked; I'd say we can storm Rainbow Springs even considering whatever they've been popping in the last few turns. If we can manage that, the expected reinforcements which are en route from adjacent cities farther in elven territory may well go from threats to snacks- if we can send out groups to assault them fast enough and eliminate them while they're on the march, before they can link up into larger armies or reach a city to defend.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Strategy & Discussions

Postby Werebiscuit » Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:13 pm

Exate wrote:
Werebiscuit wrote:By the time we can get there Rainbow springs will have had 10 turns to replenish defences. If it's anything over a level 2 it could be brimming and have more reinforcements lined up coming in from the other cities. It's beginning to look like Logan's Run is the best option after all.
How do you come to this conclusion? Rainbow Springs is the weakest that it will ever be right now; since we only really cheesed off the elves on turn 8, it's likely that only high-move units will have had time to reinforce it if we move against it immediately.
.

Yup We cheesed off the king on Turn 8...very true.
However they started mobilising against us on turn 3 ! Fair enough that was from Rainbow Springs itself. Do you think Rainbow springs stopped popping when Armolad left...or did it try to build up resources at home and request some from it's neighbours ? Even if word went by foot it will have had one turn of reinforcement from Scarlett Hills by the time we can get there and 10 turns of it's own popped forces ( that's 80 UP points if level 3 ) Count that as the equivalent of 20 4AP warriors. 40 if garrison. So likely 2 stacks of garrison archers 1 stack of warriors and 2 leader units. From their own popping..
not too bad it would seem but consider if the level 1 warriors happen to be faeries and we dont have archery ?
Yeah so only high move units are likely to have reached it from elsewhere so it's likely they'll have cavalry mounted on Fryahovar's. If each city has sent 1 only then it's liable to be already there. That's a possible 6. Mounted warriors... waiting.

All I'm saying is..it's risky without battlespace info...and even if we send imps now we wont get that till turn 13. That's 10 turns after they moved against us.
We'd be battling against them at best the turn after that with 6 units.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Strategy & Discussions

Postby Exate » Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:02 pm

Werebiscuit wrote:Do you think Rainbow springs stopped popping when Armolad left...or did it try to build up resources at home and request some from it's neighbours ?
I think it's been popping its own troops, but those troops will not have been garrison troops- they'll have been oriented toward assault, because they were not expecting us to act as we are. Reference the elven thought processes here and here; their king believed that Armolad would be able to reinforce or even retake their city, and from there press on to our capital. Their popping will have been in support of that, meaning that at least up until now they won't have been popping garrison units, and they might even have been popping gumptions or other heavy assault units instead of infantry. It's only from this point onward that they'll adopt a more defensive strategy- and they might not do so even now if they think that they can reinforce and launch an attack before we launch ours. As the much larger and more powerful nation, they might not realize that we'll continue to maintain a highly aggressive posture. And they won't have been sending significant reinforcement toward Rainbow Springs from other cities, because up until we pissed them off they had to keep funneling their new-popped forces toward the front against the Ixians.

Don't get me wrong; I don't expect this to be easy, and the city's popped defenders plus any fast reinforcements will still be a nasty battle, but one that I think is winnable- for now. Things are only going to get harder from here on out, and if we wait an extra five or ten turns then that battle might not be something we can win anymore.

The only compelling argument I see for moving against Logan Run is that it's got a path to our capital, and the elves know it. That makes it a great location for them to launch a decapitating strike, and we will have to deal with it before they can effectively gather the forces to do so. However, on balance I think Rainbow Springs is a greater strategic threat to our position; it's simply put the single best city on the map for them to use as a mustering point. In my opinion, if we don't take Rainbow Springs before they have the opportunity to put it to use as such we will lose this war.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Strategy & Discussions

Postby ETheBoyce » Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:06 pm

Another mobility consideration is our Balrug; but what I think our initial focus should be is on capturing Armolad. That will, however be an easy task as it only really requires me and Junetta on Kitties, me to go in and stun them both, assuming they are alone, and her to then follow and space them both out. We should, however, bring some more along, just in case. And if we can't turn her mount, as I suspect we will be unable to do, I suggest one of the casters executes it for a fair xp boost, naturally I think it should be me :-p
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