Book 2 – Page 92

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Re: Book 2 – Page 92

Postby bladestorm » Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:42 pm

And now, as I await the next update, I have begun pondering just how many Sides GK could spin off. Once they take Spacerock, if it is still a capitol city, that will make at least two capitol cities that aren't being used as capitols.

Wanda would be the obvious choice, since she could build her Side the quickest by populating it almost entirely with Decrypted.

Ansom is another possibility, if he is ever recovered. It'd be awesome to see Jillian on Megalogwiffs vs Stanley on Dwagons. Ansom's side would likely go back to his own tried and true methods of warfare, relying mostly on infantry supported by siege. He'd probably pop a hat magician as a caster (Hoffa, maybe?), a dollamancer to provide him with seige, or one of the caster types that we haven't seen much of before. I doubt he'd use a Thinkamancer, prefering the more old fashioned (and secure) way of transmitting messages.

Parson is a possibility, but highly doubtful. His role as adviser is a much better use of his talents than setting him up as a ruler of a side. But, if it happened, he'd prolly run the gamut of what unit types were possible, just to play with the variables.

Sylvia -- If she ever got her own side, she'd have to have scarlet livery. Or black, to offset her scarlet hair. For casters, a shockamancer specializing in burning stuff, a dollamancer that makes kamikaze style cloth golems that she can set on fire and send towards the enemy lines (maybe even blowing up when they get there), a Lookamancer that uses a ball of flame to see stuff, a Luckamancer (I don't care where you get the points from, just get them. Take them all from that stack over there, and that stack that's next to them. We'll send them to their doom and then mop up with the luck enhanced stack.), or a Weirdomancer. Given her background, she'd specialize in stabber units augmented by mounts.

A decrypted Artemis -- specializing in ranged units screened by Knights and Heavies.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 92

Postby cheeseaholic » Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:23 pm

If anyone sets up their own side, and with their overlord's permission, I'd put the odds in Parson's favor. If Maggie wants to she can Suggest it, and Parson is bound by the summoning spell to serve Stanley. He'd have more trust in him than anyone else. Of course Wanda might do it without permission.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 92

Postby sheepfly » Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:51 pm

cheeseaholic wrote:If anyone sets up their own side, and with their overlord's permission, I'd put the odds in Parson's favor. If Maggie wants to she can Suggest it, and Parson is bound by the summoning spell to serve Stanley. He'd have more trust in him than anyone else. Of course Wanda might do it without permission.


Agreed. Parson is also the only major *living* warlord with GK, as far as we know, and Stanley is less than thrilled about Wanda's decrypted comprising such a large portion of GK's military strength. It's unlikely that he would approve a decrypted warlord splitting off to form another side, as its ultimate loyalty would most certainly lie with Wanda rather than Stanley.

Besides, a loyal decrypted unit probably would not even want to be put on a separate side from the holder of the 'pliers.
What would YOU say if you'd won with strength and duty and honor every time when suddenly a veiled flying zero-upkeep 100% recycled army of former friends showed up to croak you with massive numbers and bonuses and skulls with little pink flowers?

Yeah..
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Re: Book 2 – Page 92

Postby Oberon » Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:19 am

Whispri wrote:It is good then that she has her father's example to follow. He only broke an alliance once and that was when his Side was under threat of destruction by his 'allies' if he didn't pay them an Overlord's ransom.
Heh, they must have been royals. You know, ask for parley to make unreasonable demands, and when refused use that as their 'justification' to attack. Which they wanted to do anyway. I'd be happy to see an Erfworld wiped clean of all royals sides. I might be convinced that sparing TV is worthwhile, but they would need close watching since Don appears to be doing a bit of rethinking of his philosophies surrounding being a royal side.
Lamech wrote:Stanley can give her more money. Assuming he doesn't flip out of course. {Over Wanda splitting off from Stanley and forming her own side]
Yeah, just not seeing Stanley accepting this gracefully. It's a real simple calculus: Stanley loses an attuned 'tool wielder from his 'toolist' side, loses any means of gaining zero upkeep units, loses any way of replacing his lost archons which allowed him to feel useful and not incidentally brought in a few dwagons every turn, and has to pay to support Wanda in her new side? Stanley may not be the brightest 'tool in the shed, but even he should be able to see what a one sided deal that is for he and GK. What's in it for Stanley? An alliance? Sure, GK is trying for alliances, but none of those involved losing a 'tool and its decryption capabilities for GK in addition to at least one caster, potentially the PWL, and a couple thousand units. All prior attempts at alliance would have resulted purely in a net gain in the GK sphere of influence.
Chit Rule Railroad wrote:Come to think of it, Wanda probably does have Toolist sympathies, or else why hasn't she considered that the easiest way to arrange for Charlie and Stanley to be on the same side would be to croak and decrypt one or both of them?
You're making the rather huge assumption that a decrypted can attune. Many things are lost across death, and being attuned must be one of them. Or any formerly attuned dead unit would prevent anyone else from ever attuning.
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Zeroberon wrote:So we know with 100% certainty that THIS IS HOW TRI-LINKS WORK, PERIOD END OF STORY.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 92

Postby 0beron » Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:30 am

ohberon wrote:Just not seeing Stanley accepting this gracefully. Stanley ... loses any way of replacing his lost archons which allowed him to feel useful and not incidentally brought in a few dwagons every turn
Well we know that units can be traded, so assuming the 'Pliers allegiance thing doesn't prevent that, he could get his Archons back even without Wanda being on his side. He could also get other Decrypted that way, perhaps there would be an ongoing agreement that all GK troops who die in battle are Decrypted and returned to GK.

ohberon wrote:Pay to support Wanda in her new side? Stanley may not be the brightest 'tool in the shed, but even he should be able to see what a one sided deal that is for he and GK.
Well actually having 2 sides is a more economic situation, since Parson suggested GK has hit the Diminishing Schmucker Point. Wanda would only need a single lump sum to get the side started, and then she would be raking in her own income, perhaps paying back to debt to Stanely in increments.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 92

Postby bladestorm » Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:52 pm

In a lot of the resource management games, splitting off a new side results in a passive income to the parent Side, in the form of tribute paid by the child Side. An additional benefit is that the upkeep for the split-off side is not handled by the parent Side, so the income-to-upkeep ratio is not as steep as it was before the split. In every mechanic, there is benefit to having a side split off; otherwise, no one would ever split off a side and they'd continue growing to the point where upkeep exceeds income, at which point either the side collapses or finds some way to overcome the upkeep debt.

Plus, if we are considering Stanley's permission, he'd probably force Wanda to split off her own side, harvest all of the decrypted dwagons, and force an alliance with GK not out of rational thought, but out of emotional outburst. Especially if she attempted to decrypt his personal mount, or he finds out decrypted dwagons obey the pliers instead of the hammer. He might even give her the benefit of making her own side and keeping her decrypted out of his sight rather than attacking her outright or simply disbanding her. The more he thinks about it, the more it seems like he is the Awesomest Overlord Ever by being so generous, so he'd find some steep cost for her to pay, y'know, just to keep her in line. Can't have your minions getting big heads or anything.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 92

Postby Salem » Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:13 pm

Chit Rule Railroad wrote:Come to think of it, Wanda probably does have Toolist sympathies, or else why hasn't she considered that the easiest way to arrange for Charlie and Stanley to be on the same side would be to croak and decrypt one or both of them?
You're making the rather huge assumption that a decrypted can attune. Many things are lost across death, and being attuned must be one of them. Or any formerly attuned dead unit would prevent anyone else from ever attuning.[/quote]
Actually you're also making the huge assumption (Assuming it isn't word of god somewhere) that only 1 person can be attuned at a time. Additionally if it is the case that only one person may be attuned, it is possible (Unlikely) that attunement isn't part of "death" but part of depopping when bodies disapear. Otherwise there are tons of issues when a unit is side who wouldn't even need to execute their own units but could just disband them, no friendly fire necessary.

I personally want what will never happen, new mechanics saying that dusted units can be decrypted by someone who wasn't the original decryptor leading to a benny hill / scooby doo style chase scene where the pliers are passed back and fourth and units play the round robin of ressurection and get thoroughly confused.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 92

Postby Housellama » Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:21 pm

Heh. I don't know what's going to happen next, but I'm pretty sure that nobody is going to see it coming.

I seem to remember a lot of hubbub earlier in Book 2 with The Tower That Was Never Going To Fall. People whined about how long was it going to take to bring down the booping Tower. Rob took his time with that too, building up a number of events that came together at the same time to become Awesome. People thought he was stalling there too.

I submit that it's not stalling. It's building the need. The best thing isn't always the most satisfying thing. You can drink the best bottled water all day long and it won't be as satisfying as the sip of muddy water is to a man dying of thirst. Rob's taken his time with things before and people have whined about it, but the payoff has always been worth it.

Let the artists work. In the long run, Rob hasn't disappointed us in the past. I seriously doubt he'll start now. And Xin's art is always amazing, well worth the wait.
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