Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 046

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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 046

Postby Lamech » Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:29 pm

Oberon wrote:Tunnels are the only real example we've seen of this, with mining going on over a great many turns.
True, but the tunnels are more of a side effect, than a goal. Sizemore mined out gems and tunnels got left behind. Sizemore didn't say... build an array of dastardly traps leading up to GK, or spend some juice every turn building new floors on the tower. Sizemore didn't create gardens in GK as far as wee saw.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 046

Postby drachefly » Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:08 am

Oberon wrote:Stanley is the only other innovator we've seen, his battle table trimancer link being called the shrewdest move Wanda had ever seen from him.


And Wanda invented the cemetery.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 046

Postby bladestorm » Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:29 am

Oberon wrote:Issac and Ace are the only real innovators we've seen, and Ace strictly within the bounds of his caster class but assisted by Cubbins. Tram is an odd case. He has the informed ability to innovate non-traditional solutions to problems. Other than that, he is either shown standing stupidly about wondering what is going on, or being a quick thinker who catches on to the very serious implications of a changing situation before others do. Stanley is the only other innovator we've seen, his battle table trimancer link being called the shrewdest move Wanda had ever seen from him.

The problem isn't with a lack of innovation, it's in that the innovations aren't passed along. After Ace is decrypted and dusted, what other dollamancers are going to be concerned with Accessories? What happened to that turnamancer that made the paddleboats and why are those not more commonly used?

Given the raw power of trimancer links, if the innovation of using them were persistent, someone would have found a way to minimize the danger of using one. We have evidence of previous innovations, but no evidence of someone building upon someone else's innovations. Someone made the Staff of Suckage, Duncan's Laurel of Napster, and several other 'artifacts', but nothing gets passed down or built upon.

The closest we get is for a Side to have a particular method of warfare that they prefer. Jetstone prefers Infantry combat, and Ansom was particularly fond of using siege (in addition to the typical Jetstone setup). Apparently if something doesn't directly involve warfare, it's not worth teaching anyone else how to do it.

That may be how Parson will be able to break things enough to end war. Force other sides to be innovative, pass on that innovation, and continue progressing in an effort to stay ahead of the dread Hamster Parson.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 046

Postby Salem » Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:44 am

bladestorm wrote:
Oberon wrote:Issac and Ace are the only real innovators we've seen, and Ace strictly within the bounds of his caster class but assisted by Cubbins. Tram is an odd case. He has the informed ability to innovate non-traditional solutions to problems. Other than that, he is either shown standing stupidly about wondering what is going on, or being a quick thinker who catches on to the very serious implications of a changing situation before others do. Stanley is the only other innovator we've seen, his battle table trimancer link being called the shrewdest move Wanda had ever seen from him.

The problem isn't with a lack of innovation, it's in that the innovations aren't passed along. After Ace is decrypted and dusted, what other dollamancers are going to be concerned with Accessories? What happened to that turnamancer that made the paddleboats and why are those not more commonly used?

Given the raw power of trimancer links, if the innovation of using them were persistent, someone would have found a way to minimize the danger of using one. We have evidence of previous innovations, but no evidence of someone building upon someone else's innovations. Someone made the Staff of Suckage, Duncan's Laurel of Napster, and several other 'artifacts', but nothing gets passed down or built upon.

The closest we get is for a Side to have a particular method of warfare that they prefer. Jetstone prefers Infantry combat, and Ansom was particularly fond of using siege (in addition to the typical Jetstone setup). Apparently if something doesn't directly involve warfare, it's not worth teaching anyone else how to do it.

That may be how Parson will be able to break things enough to end war. Force other sides to be innovative, pass on that innovation, and continue progressing in an effort to stay ahead of the dread Hamster Parson.

I definetly agree that inovations fail to be passed on but I think your first two examples are rather weak. Paddleboats were known about even to FAQ so that wouldn't be side specific, and there are probably other turnamencers who specialize in various arries such as accesories, but accesories tends to favor a side with fewer units who are higher in power, like Charlie's archon's as opposed to a side that is many but weak. Granted giving your leadership strength to not be knocked out and to knock out their leadership is good, I just think othersides would be more open to the idea.

Wanda's Garden is a good example to be sure, because it serves no mechanical purpose. I doubt anyone else has done it. Save parson.

Now as far as Haffaton using the dwagon relay is concerned I doubt it, if they did especially if Wanda had used it, *she* would have known about the tactic even if not one other soul did, considering the number of flying units used by GK it would have probably been suggested or at least not as suprising when Parson uses it.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 046

Postby Not Me » Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:59 pm

Just a few thoughts:

* We've had too much insight about the mechanichs on captured units and fugitives lately. Maybe it's setting the ground for something Ansom related. Or maybe even Parson if he goes through the portal and somehow gets captured (remember Charlescomm has it's turn before GK and also Jillian should have enough move to get back to the action in one turn)

* Haffaton and Charlescomm not getting to a deal might mean that either Haffaton does not care about the fugitive or that it already knows everything they want/need to know about Jillian. Considering everything we know about Wanda/Jillian that will happen afterwards, I'm onclined to think it's the latter.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 046

Postby 0beron » Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:05 pm

Not Me wrote:We've had too much insight about the mechanichs on captured units and fugitives lately. Maybe it's setting the ground for something ...

Possibly, but not necessarily. Rob knows from reading the forums that a lot of us just like to know how things work, so he is making the most of this opportunity to explain a mechanic to us. The Text Updates and Book 0 are directed more at the hardcore fans who like to know tons of detail on background and mechanics. So if this is "foreshadowing" anything, I think it's helping us have more understanding about Jillian's faked escape from GK back in Book 1, and why it was plausible but suspicious.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 046

Postby hajo » Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:31 pm

bladestorm wrote:The problem isn't with a lack of innovation, it's in that the innovations aren't passed along. After Ace is decrypted and dusted, what other dollamancers are going to be concerned with Accessories? What happened to that turnamancer that made the paddleboats and why are those not more commonly used?

Given the raw power of trimancer links, if the innovation of using them were persistent, someone would have found a way to minimize the danger of using one. We have evidence of previous innovations, but no evidence of someone building upon someone else's innovations. Someone made the Staff of Suckage, Duncan's Laurel of Napster, and several other 'artifacts', but nothing gets passed down or built upon.

Erfworld as we know it is not built for sharing of information and 'progress'.

Everyone pops with all knowledge needed for his job, even the library pops with the city.
So not much incentive to learn more, or organize a school, research etc.

Casters and warlords are pretty much the only exceptions.

Also, why share any advantage with (potentially) enemy sides ?
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 046

Postby Morni » Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:41 pm

hajo wrote:
bladestorm wrote:The problem isn't with a lack of innovation, it's in that the innovations aren't passed along. After Ace is decrypted and dusted, what other dollamancers are going to be concerned with Accessories? What happened to that turnamancer that made the paddleboats and why are those not more commonly used?

Given the raw power of trimancer links, if the innovation of using them were persistent, someone would have found a way to minimize the danger of using one. We have evidence of previous innovations, but no evidence of someone building upon someone else's innovations. Someone made the Staff of Suckage, Duncan's Laurel of Napster, and several other 'artifacts', but nothing gets passed down or built upon.

Erfworld as we know it is not built for sharing of information and 'progress'.

Everyone pops with all knowledge needed for his job, even the library pops with the city.
So not much incentive to learn more, or organize a school, research etc.

Casters and warlords are pretty much the only exceptions.

Also, why share any advantage with (potentially) enemy sides ?


or you only know what you need, and what you don't know you learn as you need and if you're allowed to that knowledge.

Wanda didn't know her name until she said it.
http://www.erfworld.com/2011/10/inner-p ... isode-001/
“I’m Wanda.” She said it definitively, although she didn’t really know her own name until she stated it aloud. “Lady Wanda Firebaugh. I am a Croakamancer.” This, too, she knew only as she said it, but it felt abidingly true. She could animate the husks of the once-living. Yes, she could.
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