Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 046

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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 046

Postby Lamech » Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:04 pm

Whispri wrote:
It's possible the Archon was covering a slip, but honestly, if Haffaton were as weak as Jillian desperately wants them to be, Translyvito would be plundering their Cities without consequence. And if that were happening Faq, being neighbours to both Sides, would surely know.
Yeah, I bet T.V. would plunder a few weak cities. But not get away without consequence. Remember what happened to Jillian's group?
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 046

Postby 0beron » Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:07 pm

Lamech wrote:
Whispri wrote:It's possible the Archon was covering a slip, but honestly, if Haffaton were as weak as Jillian desperately wants them to be, Translyvito would be plundering their Cities without consequence. And if that were happening Faq, being neighbours to both Sides, would surely know.
Yeah, I bet T.V. would plunder a few weak cities. But not get away without consequence. Remember what happened to Jillian's group?

Possibly, unless Haffaton guards their perimeter well enough to deter that. Or the 2 may have some kind of financial arrangement, given Transylvito's MO that's very plausible.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 046

Postby MonteCristo » Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:10 pm

Whispri wrote:It's possible the Archon was covering a slip, but honestly, if Haffaton were as weak as Jillian desperately wants them to be, Translyvito would be plundering their Cities without consequence. And if that were happening Faq, being neighbours to both Sides, would surely know. Another thing, Jillian had pinky sworn she wasn't a threat to Haffaton, her ability to slip along their border could well be a result of them recognising her air group and taking her at her word. And of course, if she's right, she has no answer to Olive Branch.


Not necessarily. Haffaton would likely concentrate its forces around its borders; the cites closest to other sides like Translyvito would be the most heavily defended and this would be combined with additional forces needed to wage an offensive against their next target. However, with how wide Haffaton's border is, this could easily come with the trade off of not having enough troops to provide adequate defenses for their inner cities; thus you have cities like diecast which must make do with sparse defenses and traps. In short, a hostile side would find that fighting haffaton from the outside to be difficult, but if you could sneak an army past their frontline, you would find strikes on the inner cities, and possibly even their capitol, be rather easy. Well at least as long as you don't fall into the traps.

You know a thought occurs: Supposing someone at Haffaton has heard of Faq and really, really hates them. That could be motive for refusing help, not wanting to spoil the delicious taste of Faq's flesh/having something special planned. We never did have the identity of Goodminton's destroyers confirmed...

If there was someone in haffaton old enough to remember FAQ (and had a grudged against them), FAQ would probably be gone by now since they would likely know where FAQ is... Also Haffaton's captitol seems a bit far to have had enough contact with FAQ to have developed a hatred for them... not to mention that it seems unlikely that a guy like Banhammer would have been the type to make fierce enemies; before they became a bubble side, banhammer seems like he probably played defensively. And as far as Jillian and her merc work is concerned, she has mentioned nothing about ever fighting with haffaton as part of her work.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 046

Postby magnutc » Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:19 pm

Speaking of the Rain-ment, does anyone recognize if there is a pun/reference regarding these 3 Archons and their names?


Chynna, Wendy, and Carnie are the first names of the girls from Wilson Phillips.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 046

Postby Mogster2 » Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:22 pm

0beron wrote:
Skystriker wrote:Alternatively, they may have been hired to track her to FAQ and not reveal their presence in doing so :). Not sure how easy it would be since her dwagon can clearly detect them though.

Maybe that's what the eagerness about the Rain-ment might have been about. Give her a "bugged" item, and track her easily without having to be in the hex. That could be why they were willing to give it on credit :p

I've been wondering if she already has a bugged item in the form of Bart's sword. Wanda could be tracking her if she has some knowledge of Lookamancy and might not be inclined to tell Haffaton about it. How far she can push the boundaries of her Duty?

magnutc wrote:
Speaking of the Rain-ment, does anyone recognize if there is a pun/reference regarding these 3 Archons and their names?

Chynna, Wendy, and Carnie are the first names of the girls from Wilson Phillips.


Maybe things will go Jillian's way if she holds on for one more day? :D

Edit: on second thought, maybe "Release Me" would be more appropriate...
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 046

Postby Man in the Mists » Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:05 pm

Mogster2 wrote:
magnutc wrote:
Speaking of the Rain-ment, does anyone recognize if there is a pun/reference regarding these 3 Archons and their names?


Chynna, Wendy, and Carnie are the first names of the girls from Wilson Phillips.


Maybe things will go Jillian's way if she holds on for one more day? :lol:


Ah, she'll break free from the chains.

Mogster2 wrote:
0beron wrote:
Skystriker wrote:Alternatively, they may have been hired to track her to FAQ and not reveal their presence in doing so :). Not sure how easy it would be since her dwagon can clearly detect them though.

Maybe that's what the eagerness about the Rain-ment might have been about. Give her a "bugged" item, and track her easily without having to be in the hex. That could be why they were willing to give it on credit :p


I've been wondering if she already has a bugged item in the form of Bart's sword. Wanda could be tracking her if she has some knowledge of Lookamancy, and might not be inclined to tell Haffaton about it. I'm not sure how far she can push the boundaries of her Duty.


Maybe she has some wiggle room due to swearing to her father that she'll be Haffaton's poison pill.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 046

Postby wrecan » Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:21 pm

Kornaki wrote:The only thing we know is that Haffaton didn't pay Charlescomm to attack Jillian, we don't know if they paid for the information of where she is

Exactly.

Charlie may have been paid for their location and the archons are pretendign otherwise
Charlie may have decided the best price he could get was not worth revealing why they are in Haffaton airspace
If the theory that Wanda let Jillian escape is accurate, they already know where she is and don't need Charlie.
Etc.

Here's the other thing Jillian may able to conclude -- Charlie still doesn't know FAQ is a Side, which means Haffaton probably doesn't know where FAQ is either. Otherwise, he would have contacted FAQ to sell them info on Jillian, and Banhammer probably would have paid at least for a thinkagram to get a debriefing.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 046

Postby Housellama » Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:25 pm

I don't think the Archons are lying. First of all, the High Elves weren't specifically looking for her until she killed them. They were, in fact, resting and eating. She attacked them unprovoked. The fact that a group charged in to see why their natural allies were attacked isn't exactly an unreasonable response no matter who the attacker is. Second, her attacks on those scouts have been preemptive. Third, we have seen no signs of pursuit at all.

We are looking at this through the lens of an escaped prisoner, and one with a very high regard for her worth. Any fugitive has to assume that they are being tracked. It's the only way to stay alive. If you assume that you aren't being pursued and act on that, if you're wrong you are very quickly a prisoner again. Our narrator has everything she sees colored by that, admittedly, not unreasonable presupposition. Given that Jillian is something of a narcissist anyway, the idea that there might not be a pursuit has never crossed her mind. Since only have her point of view, pursuit has been assumed.

I had my doubts about whether or not her escape was engineered or honest when this started. It wasn't unreasonable to assume that Wanda let her go intentionally, but I don't think that's the case. In this comic, Jillian asks Wanda to trust her and Wanda says that she made that mistake before. I've always kind of wondered what she meant by that. She could be talking about the Suggestion spell, but that doesn't sit right with me. Jillian was able to break out because Wanda gave her leeway to leave the coffin for a bit. That enabled her to get the ceramic cup which let her break the coffin. All of this is a direct result of her being let out. Wanda trusted her, even just a little bit, and Jillian used it to escape.

Since then, Jillian might have simply been too much trouble to worry about taking back. The risk/reward analysis wasn't in the favor of recovery, so Olive decided to just let her run. Might be a lesson to Wanda as well. "Let your toys go and you don't get them back."

Just a theory.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 046

Postby Saladman » Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:35 pm

Whispri wrote:It's possible the Archon was covering a slip, but honestly, if Haffaton were as weak as Jillian desperately wants them to be, Translyvito would be plundering their Cities without consequence. And if that were happening Faq, being neighbours to both Sides, would surely know...


Have we seen Transylvito yet in Inner Peace though? I know they sound like an old side, given Don King's age and popping as an heir, but given Haffaton's territory spread I thought they might have been founded after Haffaton fell. Most likely in the immediate aftermath and chaos, since Banhammer won't go for expanding. Certainly Haffaton has to be tying up more than one Capitol sites, and we know they're replaced by a more or less Erf-normal spread of kingdoms.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 046

Postby Azukar » Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:42 pm

Housellama wrote: Since only have her point of view, pursuit has been assumed.
Just a theory.


Linking to TvTropes when other people are trying to lead productive lives should be punishable by public flogging.

Also I'm putting my money on that the Archons have to be significant.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 046

Postby Housellama » Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:50 pm

Azukar wrote:
Housellama wrote: Since only have her point of view, pursuit has been assumed.
Just a theory.


Linking to TvTropes when other people are trying to lead productive lives should be punishable by public flogging.

Also I'm putting my money on that the Archons have to be significant.


Sharing is caring. And I'm in total agreement.

Edit: About the Archons. Not the flogging, obviously.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 046

Postby effataigus » Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:03 pm

Hmm, I wonder if Jillian could have waited until the end of the turn to jump the elves. In theory there's nothing stopping off turn engagements, and this would have prevented the elves from running. Of course this assumes:

1. The starvation shackles wouldn't appear until the beginning of the next turn or the end of the current day.
2. The elf that blundered into her... wouldn't have if she had this plan.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 046

Postby Zain » Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:41 pm

Whispri wrote:One last thought. Wanda was moving in and out of her graveyard every few turns. Jillian is now three Turns out by air after spending three Turns fleeing on foot, plus the extra move the Dwagon gave her on the Turn she found it. That suggests either that Haffaton is wealthy enough to arrange a rapid transportation hack of some variety, or that Wanda is required to do something a short way from her graveyard on a regular basis.


I believe two updates back, Jillian revealed that the graveyard hill was adjacent to Haffaton's capital. Likewise, her chains vanished when she moved across the hex boundary, so it's likely that the capital is a mere 1 hex away from the hill.

Wanda could have tons of business and duties within the capital, and possibly within 2 turns via boat or mount from the capital.


And I'm betting the information was simply not worth it, Wanda probably learnt ALOT more from Jillian then Jillian thinks, added to the "red pins" as Jillian put it, that she makes with each strike, Haffaton will be able to guess her location within a certain radius. Charlie's information could have been much more accurate, but it's likely that at the time Haffaton couldn't act on the information, and next turn, since Jillian gets "first orders" bonus, the information could quickly become irrelevant if she doubled back at a angle. Likewise, Charlie had to have put the price high, as his Archons vs a high level warlord + dwagon mount arn't the best of odds. At least one Archon would have fell, likely 2, potentially all 3. Though Jillian herself didn't think much of her odds, so great moment to be humble.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 046

Postby LTDave » Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:10 pm

And if she's going back and forward to the capital, she can be going back and forth to the Magic Kingdom as well.

But it certainly puts paid to the idea that Wanda is dancing off to the frontier every other turn to uncroak some minor enemies. The frontier is clearly a very long way off, and Haffaton doesn't have "lots of flyers", and the whole "swap mounts and fly again" Dwago Chain idea won't come up for a few hundred turns...

Just raises more questions, really.

(Good story)
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 046

Postby 0beron » Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:24 pm

LTDave wrote:But it certainly puts paid to the idea that Wanda is dancing off to the frontier every other turn to uncroak some minor enemies. The frontier is clearly a very long way off, and Haffaton doesn't have "lots of flyers", and the whole "swap mounts and fly again" Dwago Chain idea won't come up for a few hundred turns...

...there ARE such things as walking Mounts :p And many people have suggested that bodies are brought BACK to her so she can uncroak them in the capital.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 046

Postby bladestorm » Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:32 pm

0beron wrote:
LTDave wrote:But it certainly puts paid to the idea that Wanda is dancing off to the frontier every other turn to uncroak some minor enemies. The frontier is clearly a very long way off, and Haffaton doesn't have "lots of flyers", and the whole "swap mounts and fly again" Dwago Chain idea won't come up for a few hundred turns...

...there ARE such things as walking Mounts :p And many people have suggested that bodies are brought BACK to her so she can uncroak them in the capital.

Or at some convenient halfway point. Both sides travel for two turns rather than make the croakamancer travel 4 turns, with the corpses steadily decaying, or making the units haul corpses 4 turns back, and the encumbrance may increase that to 5-6 turns.

Or maybe they take the croaked to a nearby river and use one of the paddleboat things to autoferry the corpses back to a river town, about a turn away from the capital.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 046

Postby Arky » Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:40 pm

It seems pretty likely to me that Charlie HAS sold Jillian's location to Haffaton. Since when do Charlie's Archons give out valuable information for free? Telling Jillian that Haffaton didn't buy anything is misinformation- to keep Jillian peaceful and unsuspecting.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 046

Postby fjolnir » Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:43 pm

Remember, corpses only fade if they are moved.
*EDIT*
NOT moved that word definitely needs to be there
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 046

Postby cloudbreaker » Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:51 pm

LTDave wrote:And if she's going back and forward to the capital, she can be going back and forth to the Magic Kingdom as well.

But it certainly puts paid to the idea that Wanda is dancing off to the frontier every other turn to uncroak some minor enemies. The frontier is clearly a very long way off, and Haffaton doesn't have "lots of flyers", and the whole "swap mounts and fly again" Dwago Chain idea won't come up for a few hundred turns...

Just raises more questions, really.

(Good story)

We know Haffaton has a lot of ships at their capitol, so the probably have a lot of ships elsewhere as well. So a travel chain of ships can probably be used to reach a lot of places. Also, we now know that Turnamancers can create moving vehicles, and it seemed implied that these vehicles weren't only restricted to water travel, like the boat Jillian saw. Maybe Wand has an automobile.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 046

Postby Jinren » Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:06 pm

bladestorm wrote:
0beron wrote:
LTDave wrote:But it certainly puts paid to the idea that Wanda is dancing off to the frontier every other turn to uncroak some minor enemies. The frontier is clearly a very long way off, and Haffaton doesn't have "lots of flyers", and the whole "swap mounts and fly again" Dwago Chain idea won't come up for a few hundred turns...

...there ARE such things as walking Mounts :p And many people have suggested that bodies are brought BACK to her so she can uncroak them in the capital.

Or at some convenient halfway point. Both sides travel for two turns rather than make the croakamancer travel 4 turns, with the corpses steadily decaying, or making the units haul corpses 4 turns back, and the encumbrance may increase that to 5-6 turns.

Or maybe they take the croaked to a nreaby river and use one of the paddleboat things to autoferry the corpses back to a river town, about a turn away from the capital.


If they have paddlewheelers, perhaps they have access to other vehicle types? In which case they might have high-speed small boats for Wanda and other VIPs, or ground cars, or even aircraft (OK probably not or Jack wouldn't have thought such things were ridiculous when doing simulations with Parson, but...). Perhaps putting an engineer (Turnamancer? Turnamancer-Dollamancer link?) in command of a vessel makes it faster? etc.

Given the size of Haffaton's empire it actually seems reasonable to me to assume they do have some fast-transit options available to them - not fast enough to catch Jillian or reinforce a city, but... you're not crossing that thing on foot.


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