Book 2 – Page 90

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Re: Book 2 – Page 90

Postby Kaed » Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:19 am

No one in particular wrote:I stand by my theory that anyone CAN go through the portals, it's just they get blasted by barbarian casters as soon as they step through. Parson didn't get blasted because no one can see his stats, so the casters there didn't know if he was a caster or not.


I... bluh... how... excuse me.

*thumps head against the wall a few times*

Okay, I admit I am at a loss. Why do people do this? We are given a clear explaination of something, backed up by evidence and testimony... but then people discard all of this to bleat out some pet 'theory' with little to no grounds in reality.

"Non-caster entering portal = disband" has been established by klog, actual word of mouth, and then suicide by portal.

HOW IS THIS NOT A CONCISE FACT NOW?

This is like the people who insist disbanding is just a Big Lie even though it has been referenced. Many times. And twice, even described in a text update!

sdawfnysmj;plok
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Re: Book 2 – Page 90

Postby 0beron » Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:30 am

Agreed Kaed. I understand how some people can doubt a Ruler's power to Disband at-will (we've never seen it demonstrated, only threatened) but even that is a lil shaky. Portal Disbanding however is rock solid.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 90

Postby Kaed » Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:46 pm

0beron wrote:Agreed Kaed. I understand how some people can doubt a Ruler's power to Disband at-will (we've never seen it demonstrated, only threatened) but even that is a lil shaky. Portal Disbanding however is rock solid.



Slately: *to Don* "... I've had to disband some units from the outer cities..."

:I

We may have not actually seen it happen, but unless we are going to assume Slately is delusional he has admitted to doing it in casual conversation with a trusted friend.

This is not hearsay, this is a direct testimonial from someone who did it! A bloody confession!

Something does not need to actually be visibly seen to be true! DX
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Re: Book 2 – Page 90

Postby 0beron » Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:59 pm

Ah, I wasn't aware of that. What some people have suggested is this:
When a side/barbarian cannot pay the total upkeep of their units, there is a "pecking order" that units will disband in, determined by the Ruler/barbarian. So yes, units do disband, but what is being questioned is whether they can do it at-will as they please, or whether it's tied to certain conditions, that's all.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 90

Postby No one in particular » Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:11 pm

Kaed wrote:I... bluh... how... excuse me.

*thumps head against the wall a few times*

Okay, I admit I am at a loss. Why do people do this? We are given a clear explaination of something, backed up by evidence and testimony... but then people discard all of this to bleat out some pet 'theory' with little to no grounds in reality.

"Non-caster entering portal = disband" has been established by klog, actual word of mouth, and then suicide by portal.

HOW IS THIS NOT A CONCISE FACT NOW?

This is like the people who insist disbanding is just a Big Lie even though it has been referenced. Many times. And twice, even described in a text update!

sdawfnysmj;plok

It happens because I like to make things complicated. :D

And really, until it happens on screen, I can keep coming up with excuses/reasons for a conspiracy of casters. Already, it's been shown that casters are more independent from their side than more Rulers or Warlords guess, and the closest thing to direct evidence we've seen was Queen Bea saying "I'm going to go through the portal", then a cut away to her side disbanding. Maybe the portal killed her, maybe it was all the barbarian casters on the other side who had been told by her former casters that she wanted to croak.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 90

Postby bladestorm » Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:41 pm

No one in particular wrote:
Kaed wrote:I... bluh... how... excuse me.

*thumps head against the wall a few times*

Okay, I admit I am at a loss. Why do people do this? We are given a clear explaination of something, backed up by evidence and testimony... but then people discard all of this to bleat out some pet 'theory' with little to no grounds in reality.

"Non-caster entering portal = disband" has been established by klog, actual word of mouth, and then suicide by portal.

HOW IS THIS NOT A CONCISE FACT NOW?

This is like the people who insist disbanding is just a Big Lie even though it has been referenced. Many times. And twice, even described in a text update!

sdawfnysmj;plok

It happens because I like to make things complicated. :D

And really, until it happens on screen, I can keep coming up with excuses/reasons for a conspiracy of casters. Already, it's been shown that casters are more independent from their side than more Rulers or Warlords guess, and the closest thing to direct evidence we've seen was Queen Bea saying "I'm going to go through the portal", then a cut away to her side disbanding. Maybe the portal killed her, maybe it was all the barbarian casters on the other side who had been told by her former casters that she wanted to croak.

Maybe it was her own casters, led by Jojo. They had just been sent there, so they would have had a good idea she was about to end the side. They just waited on the other side of the portal, and then, Hello Queenie, we can't have you spilling our trade secrets **ZOT** UNSPEAKABLE DAMAGE.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 90

Postby Kaed » Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:48 pm

No one in particular wrote:It happens because I like to make things complicated. :D

And really, until it happens on screen, I can keep coming up with excuses/reasons for a conspiracy of casters. Already, it's been shown that casters are more independent from their side than more Rulers or Warlords guess, and the closest thing to direct evidence we've seen was Queen Bea saying "I'm going to go through the portal", then a cut away to her side disbanding. Maybe the portal killed her, maybe it was all the barbarian casters on the other side who had been told by her former casters that she wanted to croak.


That is not how logic works, sir. =/ I notice most of those 'serious' theories are put out by you. You're just taking some imcomplete parts and filling them in with ridiculous fantasies. Some of them actually have no bearing on the plot or really on anything except 'hey, what if...'

Look, if you hear a bird outside your window, and your friend points outside and says "What a pretty bird!" it probably means that hey, there is a bird outside your window, not that your friend is part of a secret conspiracy and there is really a recording device hanging from the tree branch playing bird sounds. That is the kind of thing that insane people spew, like the hobos running around claiming the guv'ment put probes in their teefs. You can't prove it, but most people manage to figure out it's nonsense anyway.

Making things needlessly complicated doesn't mean it is true, or even really that plausible. I can't believe you actually believe this stuff you're writing, and I think it's just some form of entertainment for you, to see how many people you can get to play along. >_>

If there was really a secret murder-conspiracy in the Magic Kingdom that made every nearby caster zap someone - and let's ignore for the sake of it being even remotely plausible that the number of magic disciplines that actually can directly zap someone to death can probably be counted on less than two hands worth of fingers, unless you want to claim habokens are flying everywhere all the time - then after the second time Parson came in, they should all have turned and blasted him on sight, rather than one fairy god-person going "Oh my, a warlord! Someone stop him!"

And that's not even going into how most casters are kind of preoccupied with their daily business, so most of them would not even be paying attention to every single person that comes in through a portal! Parson coming in only attracted the nearby caster's attention immediately because he did something weird and fell through the ground. And if there was one, Jojo would also have been well in his rights to blast Parson since he KNEW he wasn't a caster, instead of resorting to some bizzare trick to try and teleport him home. And now everyone is worried more about him violating neutrality agreements rather than that, hey, he shouldn't even be here in the first place why don't we kill him.

There are a lot of reasons why this really doesn't work out, but I guess you can just make up a new excuse to counter each one of them, because Rob hasn't taken the time to explain out every tiny detail about his world to prevent you from diving into the cracks and spewing out imaginary nonsense.

I think I need to take five and catche a deep breath or three.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 90

Postby bladestorm » Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:45 pm

Jojo could have given Bea the same scroll he gave Parson. Bea read it, and Unaroyal ended.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 90

Postby 0beron » Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:47 pm

bladestorm wrote:Jojo could have given Bea the same scroll he gave Parson. Bea read it, and Unaroyal ended.

ummm...except...he didn't, cus that didn't happen.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 90

Postby Frosted » Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:57 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mi ... e_Universe

springs to mind at the moment.



edit: grammatical upgrade, free of charge.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 90

Postby No one in particular » Sat Sep 29, 2012 7:17 pm

Kaed wrote:That is not how logic works, sir. =/ I notice most of those 'serious' theories are put out by you. You're just taking some imcomplete parts and filling them in with ridiculous fantasies. Some of them actually have no bearing on the plot or really on anything except 'hey, what if...'

Well, yes. If you notice, the top of the page linked says that "This is a page for speculative theories." The fact that no one else is contributing to it is kind of sad, but just means the wiki needs more contributors.

Kaed wrote:Look, if you hear a bird outside your window, and your friend points outside and says "What a pretty bird!" it probably means that hey, there is a bird outside your window, not that your friend is part of a secret conspiracy and there is really a recording device hanging from the tree branch playing bird sounds. That is the kind of thing that insane people spew, like the hobos running around claiming the guv'ment put probes in their teefs. You can't prove it, but most people manage to figure out it's nonsense anyway.

Yeah, but we KNOW there's at least two conspiracies going on already! The hippiemancers and predictamancers conspired to summon Parson to end war, and the thinkamancers have one to take down Charlie. If it's happening now, why not in the past?

Kaed wrote:Making things needlessly complicated doesn't mean it is true, or even really that plausible. I can't believe you actually believe this stuff you're writing, and I think it's just some form of entertainment for you, to see how many people you can get to play along. >_>

I'll admit, this is entertainment to me. I'm trying to come up with reasons for weird things happening in a webcomic about a magical, turn-based world. :p

Kaed wrote:If there was really a secret murder-conspiracy in the Magic Kingdom that made every nearby caster zap someone - and let's ignore for the sake of it being even remotely plausible that the number of magic disciplines that actually can directly zap someone to death can probably be counted on less than two hands worth of fingers, unless you want to claim habokens are flying everywhere all the time - then after the second time Parson came in, they should all have turned and blasted him on sight, rather than one fairy god-person going "Oh my, a warlord! Someone stop him!"

And that's not even going into how most casters are kind of preoccupied with their daily business, so most of them would not even be paying attention to every single person that comes in through a portal! Parson coming in only attracted the nearby caster's attention immediately because he did something weird and fell through the ground. And if there was one, Jojo would also have been well in his rights to blast Parson since he KNEW he wasn't a caster, instead of resorting to some bizzare trick to try and teleport him home. And now everyone is worried more about him violating neutrality agreements rather than that, hey, he shouldn't even be here in the first place why don't we kill him.

There are a lot of reasons why this really doesn't work out, but I guess you can just make up a new excuse to counter each one of them, because Rob hasn't taken the time to explain out every tiny detail about his world to prevent you from diving into the cracks and spewing out imaginary nonsense.

I think I need to take five and catche a deep breath or three.

Sorry, didn't mean to work you up so much. You're right, I'm not taking this entirely seriously, and I'll shut up now.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 90

Postby bladestorm » Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:15 pm

No one in particular wrote:
Kaed wrote:That is not how logic works, sir. =/ I notice most of those 'serious' theories are put out by you. You're just taking some imcomplete parts and filling them in with ridiculous fantasies. Some of them actually have no bearing on the plot or really on anything except 'hey, what if...'

Well, yes. If you notice, the top of the page linked says that "This is a page for speculative theories." The fact that no one else is contributing to it is kind of sad, but just means the wiki needs more contributors.

Kaed wrote:Look, if you hear a bird outside your window, and your friend points outside and says "What a pretty bird!" it probably means that hey, there is a bird outside your window, not that your friend is part of a secret conspiracy and there is really a recording device hanging from the tree branch playing bird sounds. That is the kind of thing that insane people spew, like the hobos running around claiming the guv'ment put probes in their teefs. You can't prove it, but most people manage to figure out it's nonsense anyway.

Yeah, but we KNOW there's at least two conspiracies going on already! The hippiemancers and predictamancers conspired to summon Parson to end war, and the thinkamancers have one to take down Charlie. If it's happening now, why not in the past?

Kaed wrote:Making things needlessly complicated doesn't mean it is true, or even really that plausible. I can't believe you actually believe this stuff you're writing, and I think it's just some form of entertainment for you, to see how many people you can get to play along. >_>

I'll admit, this is entertainment to me. I'm trying to come up with reasons for weird things happening in a webcomic about a magical, turn-based world. :p

Kaed wrote:If there was really a secret murder-conspiracy in the Magic Kingdom that made every nearby caster zap someone - and let's ignore for the sake of it being even remotely plausible that the number of magic disciplines that actually can directly zap someone to death can probably be counted on less than two hands worth of fingers, unless you want to claim habokens are flying everywhere all the time - then after the second time Parson came in, they should all have turned and blasted him on sight, rather than one fairy god-person going "Oh my, a warlord! Someone stop him!"

And that's not even going into how most casters are kind of preoccupied with their daily business, so most of them would not even be paying attention to every single person that comes in through a portal! Parson coming in only attracted the nearby caster's attention immediately because he did something weird and fell through the ground. And if there was one, Jojo would also have been well in his rights to blast Parson since he KNEW he wasn't a caster, instead of resorting to some bizzare trick to try and teleport him home. And now everyone is worried more about him violating neutrality agreements rather than that, hey, he shouldn't even be here in the first place why don't we kill him.

There are a lot of reasons why this really doesn't work out, but I guess you can just make up a new excuse to counter each one of them, because Rob hasn't taken the time to explain out every tiny detail about his world to prevent you from diving into the cracks and spewing out imaginary nonsense.

I think I need to take five and catche a deep breath or three.

Sorry, didn't mean to work you up so much. You're right, I'm not taking this entirely seriously, and I'll shut up now.

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Re: Book 2 – Page 90

Postby Shai_hulud » Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:32 pm

Kaed wrote:That is the kind of thing that insane people spew, like the hobos running around claiming the guv'ment put probes in their teefs.
http://www.livescience.com/4657-phone-jaw-bone-transmit-sound.html
Kaed wrote: You can't prove it, but most people manage to figure out it's nonsense anyway.
Heheheh so funny.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 90

Postby Oberon » Sun Sep 30, 2012 1:29 am

Kaed wrote:That is not how logic works, sir. =/ I notice most of those 'serious' theories are put out by you. You're just taking some imcomplete parts and filling them in with ridiculous fantasies. Some of them actually have no bearing on the plot or really on anything except 'hey, what if...'

Look, if you hear a bird outside your window, and your friend points outside and says "What a pretty bird!" it probably means that hey, there is a bird outside your window, not that your friend is part of a secret conspiracy and there is really a recording device hanging from the tree branch playing bird sounds. That is the kind of thing that insane people spew, like the hobos running around claiming the guv'ment put probes in their teefs. You can't prove it, but most people manage to figure out it's nonsense anyway.
OMG!! Logic! This forum hardly recognizes you.

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Re: Book 2 – Page 90

Postby Beeskee » Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:52 am

A bunch of Wanda's units disbanded in front of her eyes when Goodminton fell. I don't know if that counts or not.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 90

Postby drachefly » Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:44 am

Making things needlessly complicated, the more the better, is simply making stuff up. You lose credibility the more you do it.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 90

Postby Vreejack » Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:46 am

We have examples of units disbanding, and even an example of a king disbanding units due to lack of maintenance, but we lack an example of a ruler disbanding for other reasons. This may seem like a small quibble, but Erfworld is built on technicalities in the rule. It is still possible, despite all claims to the contrary, that a ruler is incapable of disbanding units that their is sufficient upkeep for. In fact, there is some evidence to suggest that disbanding without some strong cause--and by "cause" I mean "game mechanic"--is, in fact, impossible.

When Unaroyal destroyed itself, the Queen, instead of giving all her treasury to Slately and disbanding her garrison, paid instead to promote them all to field units so that they would disband when she croaked. I understand that it might not be simple to transfer all your funds that way, but such things are possible, as Transylvito was attempting with Jetstone.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 90

Postby Vreejack » Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:00 am

As to the portals, I always assumed they were created by the same trimancer configuration that created the magic kingdom. The kingdom itself is a pretty simple place, lacking even any of the simplest structures that a level 1 fortress has--unless you build it yourself--but the portals are the key to it. Some genius casters (probably barbarians) in turns forgotten came up with the idea for the kingdom and the portals and executed the plan to give them a more rewarding existence as barbarians.

The nature of the portals is that one appears in every capital, and only casters can survive the passage. We don't really know what happens to non-casters. Presumably they disband, but this is not a terribly powerful effect in a device that is immobile and can only be entered voluntarily. I imagine that weaponizing portals as disbandment tools might be considerably more difficult.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 90

Postby erutan20 » Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:36 am

First time poster, long time reader of the forum and the comic...

Hello. Question:

We have firmly established that all non casters cannot enter the magic kingdom. We know that parson is a warlord. We do know that other units can tell that he is a warlord just by looking at him but not what his stats are outside of level. The question is, what type of caster could he be? Does he have juice? We know that he is a caster of some sort or he would have died when entering the magic kingdom. I hope that this move toward the front lines could be a setup for a reveal of the type of caster he is or maybe this scene in the magic kingdom with jojo will conclude with explaining why he is able to enter the magic kingdom when all other non casters cannot.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 90

Postby 0beron » Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:38 am

erutan20 wrote:We have firmly established that all non casters cannot enter the magic kingdom. We know that parson is a warlord. We do know that other units can tell that he is a warlord just by looking at him but not what his stats are outside of level. The question is, what type of caster could he be? Does he have juice? We know that he is a caster of some sort or he would have died when entering the magic kingdom.

Basically the only thing we know from what you asked is that only casters can enter the MK. Everything else we can only speculate about. Essentially, Parson could be some kind of caster (a hippiemancer as Janice claimed on his first visit), or because he is not an erfworlder, he breaks the "detection" mechanic that would normally prevent him from entering.
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