Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 044

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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 044

Postby Sixty » Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:28 pm

I don't think Kiln Kenny ever existed based on that line at the bottom that says, "Kiln Kenny, had he ever existed, would have been proud."
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 044

Postby Shai_hulud » Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:43 pm

Nnelg wrote:First, was there ever really a Kiln Kenny, or was he a complete fabrication?

If she fabricated him, would you say that Jillian twolled Wanda? =D
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 044

Postby ftl » Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:19 pm

It was a believable twoll. Those bastards croaked kiln kenny!
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 044

Postby Zeku » Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:52 pm

Is there anything that a turnamancer can't do?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6jxxagVEO4
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 044

Postby bladestorm » Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:10 am

Yet more reason to wonder why Croakamancy has been depicted as a once-trick pony. There has got to be more to it than just "make a dead unit move again until it finally decays away".
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 044

Postby the_tick_rules » Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:18 am

That is an interesting ability for turnamancy. I wonder if this really was an escape or did wanda allow it?
I would be a procrastinator, but I keep putting it off.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 044

Postby Saladman » Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:54 am

Inching around the castle corridors, she saw exactly one enemy unit—an uncroaked guard manning a parapet—and was not spotted by it.


Interesting proof here of the harsh limits of Erfworld's economic limitations and diminishing returns. Compared to the other Capital garrisons we've seen, full of stacks of live units, Haffaton's gone from a living side to a hollowed out core. Strong, certainly, and the rations trap shows they gave thought to the risks and tried to negate them, but behind their field strength and deep borders and contingencies they still have an exploitable weakness. Evidence (for me) the famous self-sufficiency hack is not something simple and easy that Erfworlders overlook only from stupidity. Haffaton came up with a decent play given their casters, but its going to doom them.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 044

Postby OneHugeTuck » Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:36 am

the_tick_rules wrote:That is an interesting ability for turnamancy. I wonder if this really was an escape or did wanda allow it?


Well if one wanted to know where FAQ was, letting Wanda escape and following her there would be a pretty good way to find it.

I wonder if a Florist can 'bug' someone.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 044

Postby Salem » Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:07 am

Zeku wrote:Is there anything that a turnamancer can't do?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6jxxagVEO4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOfHOMpU4iE
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 044

Postby Arky » Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:08 am

Is this the first ever time we've heard of the ocean in Erf- or that there are boats which cross it?

Aside: Even if she's being set up by Wanda, this is the first time I've ever thought something done in this comic by Jillian is cool.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 044

Postby bladestorm » Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:30 am

Saladman wrote:
Inching around the castle corridors, she saw exactly one enemy unit—an uncroaked guard manning a parapet—and was not spotted by it.


Interesting proof here of the harsh limits of Erfworld's economic limitations and diminishing returns. Compared to the other Capital garrisons we've seen, full of stacks of live units, Haffaton's gone from a living side to a hollowed out core. Strong, certainly, and the rations trap shows they gave thought to the risks and tried to negate them, but behind their field strength and deep borders and contingencies they still have an exploitable weakness. Evidence (for me) the famous self-sufficiency hack is not something simple and easy that Erfworlders overlook only from stupidity. Haffaton came up with a decent play given their casters, but its going to doom them.

Haffaton had many cities spread out over a wide area, with all of their strength on the front lines. Charlescomm has only a single city and is pouring all of its resources into it. Which tactic lasts longer? That all depends on the goal-winning scenario. I tried the single city method on Warbarons, had an army of red dragons, and lost without a single combat. goal was to control 67%+ of the map. While I was nestled away preparing to nuke anyone that came near, someone else was spreading their army thin and covering more ground. In order to sustain to FLoT, most of the castles that where not in danger of enemy contact were unmanned.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 044

Postby Lamech » Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:34 am

Arky wrote:Is this the first ever time we've heard of the ocean in Erf- or that there are boats which cross it?

Aside: Even if she's being set up by Wanda, this is the first time I've ever thought something done in this comic by Jillian is cool.

I know she's not being crushingly erratic with no real plan, and she's not being someone elses pawn.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 044

Postby ShieldOfAthena » Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:24 am

Saladman wrote:
Inching around the castle corridors, she saw exactly one enemy unit—an uncroaked guard manning a parapet—and was not spotted by it.


Interesting proof here of the harsh limits of Erfworld's economic limitations and diminishing returns. Compared to the other Capital garrisons we've seen, full of stacks of live units, Haffaton's gone from a living side to a hollowed out core. Strong, certainly, and the rations trap shows they gave thought to the risks and tried to negate them, but behind their field strength and deep borders and contingencies they still have an exploitable weakness. Evidence (for me) the famous self-sufficiency hack is not something simple and easy that Erfworlders overlook only from stupidity. Haffaton came up with a decent play given their casters, but its going to doom them.
"Famous?" Outside of one Klog entry by Parson, where he indicates it is basically considered a myth, the only mention of any self-sufficient side is FAQ and they depend on mercenary work to make up the shortfall. The only reason Parson thought it might be possible (and only might, he didn't indicate it was a sure thing) was because he ran some mathamancy on it that seemed to indicate if you popped non-talking units just to harvest them it might be just enough, but as I recall he even assumed a Turnamancer to up production and it was still iffy.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 044

Postby Smoker » Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:31 am

So here's a lovely little puzzle!

Who's turn is it now? Shouldn't Jillian's move have reverted to 0 as soon as she entered a hex as a non-prisoner?
Or does she get the rest of today to use Haffaton's turn?
If so, and Faq's natural turn order were before Haffaton's, would that then give her two turns in a row? Double the move? With a free heal in the middle?
Did natural predictamancy give her a slot in the turn order?
Tomorrow, as she's a lone unit deep in enemy territory, does she still wait out Haffaton's turn even if she manages to avoid an encounter? Relative time hints at no, but then does this mean that the sun will be at noon when she wakes up?

Dont get me wrong, the thing I like the most about Erfworld is the story, but working out such a complex rule system (especially when it initially appeared so simplistic) is a great way to occupy the mind between updates :)
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 044

Postby Oberon » Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:02 am

MarbitChow wrote:We've seen hints that 'turning' a unit might involve torture (Jillian complaining that the Turnamancer didn't know how to 'play right', IIRC). Torture devices that involve turning? The rack, perhaps?
Turning can also be done as a simple spell, as demonstrated by the turnamancer who was a part of the (*Ptui!*) Kingworld spell making a failed attempt to turn Ansom.
Arky wrote:Is this the first ever time we've heard of the ocean in Erf- or that there are boats which cross it?
Haggar has ships which had levels, as revealed when Charlie coerced Sammy into being the first to tackle the GK field unit.
Smoker wrote:Who's turn is it now? Shouldn't Jillian's move have reverted to 0 as soon as she entered a hex as a non-prisoner?
Very interesting observation. We'll have to see how things resolve. There could never be any escape if captured units had no move once they escaped. Perhaps since this is a Halfaton area? Dunno.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 044

Postby ftl » Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:32 am

I would guess that the way to resolve it is based on what we've been stated - captured units take their Turn with their captors. So Jillian is doing all this on Haffaton's turn. Move gets reset to 0 at the END of your turn, and Jillian never ended turn, she just switched sides (from haffaton to faq) in the middle of it. Then she ends turn, and gets her Move back at the start of her next turn, whether that be before or after Haffaton in the natural turn order.

So actually, thinking about that, if it works that way then escapees *always* get a double turn, because FAQ is guaranteed to get a turn before Haffaton gets a second one. So that's a pretty neat advantage for escapees. If that's how it actually works.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 044

Postby Smoker » Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:04 am

...'nless Haffaton was off-turn when Jillian left, and natural predictamancy gave her a Turn to attempt her escape... (since its almost guaranteed there'd be an encounter of some kind, this doesn't tell you if you'll actually escape or not..) but in that case, wouldn't someone realise a disruption to the turn order and alert the guards? Every option I can think of has interesting consequences...
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 044

Postby hajo » Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:49 am

OneHugeTuck wrote:
the_tick_rules wrote:I wonder if this really was an escape or did wanda allow it?

Well if one wanted to know where FAQ was, letting Wanda escape and following her there
would be a pretty good way to find it.
I wonder if a Florist can 'bug' someone.

If the whole escape was arranged, it would make sense to bug the two usable boats,
eg. with something like that watch-puppet in the tower of the last town.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 044

Postby hajo » Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:24 am

Arky wrote:Is this the first ever time we've heard of the ocean in Erf- or that there are boats which cross it?

We heard about the ocean and ships when Charlie talked to Sammy, detailing the forces at the city of Haggar.
Also, TV has cities on the coast.
Last edited by hajo on Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 044

Postby kasimac » Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:42 am

Who wants to bet that that dagger was poisoned.
Also, it would have made more sense for Jillian to use that ceramic to score the glass first, then punch her way out.
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