Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 043

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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 043

Postby bladestorm » Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:55 pm

0beron wrote:
bladestorm wrote:By Jillian stating that she had a father implied that she was an heir, since other units simply pop on a Side, without parents.

Overlord Firebaugh was father to Wanda and Tommy, despite neither being popped as an heir. So I'm still at a loss as to how Wanda knew. Unless of course she only guessed it. We know Royals are better somehow, that they perhaps have better stats than normal for her level. So with the combination of seeing Jillian's good stats combined with the mention of a father, Wanda made a good guess and got that guess confirmed by gauging Jillian's reaction.

Maybe Wanda can see "Special: Royal" as part of Jillian's stats.

And though Wanda was not popped as an heir, she did indeed inherit the entire side when she was promoted to Overlord. Is the promotion process any different between Royals and Overlords?
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 043

Postby Whispri » Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:01 pm

Azukar wrote:
Whispri wrote:She's not creepy, she's just being 'the crone' after being 'the maiden' at Goodminton. Gobwin Knob era Wanda is clearly in the lengthy period 'twixt 'the maiden' and 'the mother' that occurs when girls listen to Nanny Ogg, but we may see her as 'the mother' if she founds her own Side.

She's creepy.

She's not even slightly creepy.

bladestorm wrote:
0beron wrote:
bladestorm wrote:By Jillian stating that she had a father implied that she was an heir, since other units simply pop on a Side, without parents.

Overlord Firebaugh was father to Wanda and Tommy, despite neither being popped as an heir. So I'm still at a loss as to how Wanda knew. Unless of course she only guessed it. We know Royals are better somehow, that they perhaps have better stats than normal for her level. So with the combination of seeing Jillian's good stats combined with the mention of a father, Wanda made a good guess and got that guess confirmed by gauging Jillian's reaction.

Maybe Wanda can see "Special: Royal" as part of Jillian's stats.

And though Wanda was not popped as an heir, she did indeed inherit the entire side when she was promoted to Overlord. Is the promotion process any different between Royals and Overlords?

Unlikely, she wouldn't have reacted the way she did to Jillian's use of the word 'father' if she already knew of her royal status.

It's probably cheaper, given what is known of the size of Goodminton's Treasury at the time.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 043

Postby 0beron » Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:02 pm

The fact that Wanda eventually BECAME heir designate (and thus Overlord) has nothing to do with the fact that she POPPED as Firebaugh's child. It's like that saying about rectangles. All Heirs are children, but not all Children are heirs.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 043

Postby Pooga » Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:35 pm

0beron wrote:The fact that Wanda eventually BECAME heir designate (and thus Overlord) has nothing to do with the fact that she POPPED as Firebaugh's child. It's like that saying about rectangles. All Heirs are children, but not all Children are heirs.


So far all children shown are children of the rulers of sides (unless I missed one somewhere). This suggests that only rulers pop children. Someone having a parent doesn't guarantee that they are an heir, but it seems likely to guarantee that they are in a royal family and more likely to be an heir than a standard popped unit. Upon learning that she had a father, it seems a logical follow-up question, from what we know of Erfworld.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 043

Postby 0beron » Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:40 pm

Heirs are either popped deliberately, or designated at expense later. You don't pop a warlord and hope "oh I wonder if this one will be an heir"
So far, the fact that ruler units produce children seems to have no significance from a mechanics standpoint.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 043

Postby bladestorm » Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:43 pm

How about a restatement> Since Jillian stated that she had a father, that indicated that she was from a city with a Ruler, which further indicated that she had at least some potential to be designated as an heir.

So far as we have seen, only a designated Ruler can have offspring.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 043

Postby 0beron » Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:45 pm

bladestorm wrote:How about a restatement> Since Jillian stated that she had a father, that indicated that she was from a city with a Ruler, which further indicated that she had at least some potential to be designated as an heir.

THIS makes more sense. Like I said, I don't think Wanda knew Jillian was an Heir, but there are enough clues for her to say it aloud and have it confirmed or denied based on Jillian's reaction.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 043

Postby Kreistor » Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:23 pm

"Are you an heir?"

We see Wanda name her Overlord "Father" during the Goodminton days and Tommy a brother, and we see Slately's sons refer to him as father and each other as brothers. This tells us that popped Commanders (instead of raised) can feel familial relations to both other Commanders (siblings) and Overlords/Kings/Queens (father/mother).

By telling Wanda that she had a "father", Wanda can conclude that:
1) Jillian was popped as a Warlord. Not surprising, since it is supposedly more common due to expense.
2) Jillian might have been popped as an heir.

Thus Wanda poses the question, since it is merely a possibility. Note that she does somehow conclude Jillian is a Royal, and I personally have not yet figured out how. Perhaps ramblings during a pain session. But I'll bet it is in there to find, somewhere. Not necessarily in this comic, perhaps in an earlier one. The timing of it suggests tat it is hidden somewhere in the Marika story, or that Wanda already knew and was merely playing with Jillian.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 043

Postby Beeskee » Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:54 pm

I think we are seeing more of the side of Wanda that Jillian fell in love with, rather than the "kinky insane torturer" Wanda. :D


The question of why Wanda is acting this way has come up. Wanda has leveled a lot even under Goodminton, and then even more under Haffaton. That involves croaking a lot of enemies, and practicing even more croakamancy. Wanda has essentially been forced to be a mass-murderer. I think this is her way of compensating for that.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 043

Postby Whispri » Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:57 pm

Kreistor wrote:Thus Wanda poses the question, since it is merely a possibility. Note that she does somehow conclude Jillian is a Royal, and I personally have not yet figured out how. Perhaps ramblings during a pain session. But I'll bet it is in there to find, somewhere. Not necessarily in this comic, perhaps in an earlier one. The timing of it suggests tat it is hidden somewhere in the Marika story, or that Wanda already knew and was merely playing with Jillian.

Well like I said earlier, Wanda knew that Marika was a Countess and Jillian didn't claim to have witheld that. So that's Faq being the Domain of an Overlord ruled out. So the question becomes: How did Wanda know that Faq isn't a Regency?

Well we have Jillian's cageyness with regards to her title during her first encounter with Haffaton's forces, if she was serving a Regency, why not share her title and let them think she serves a Kingdom? It could be that Regencies don't pop Noble Warlords outside the Capital, or that Warlords popped in the Capital are Royalty, children of the last Monarch. Another possibility is that Jillian happened to talk of some encounter she and Marika had with the forces of a Regency and let slip that she'd never seen such a Side before then.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 043

Postby bladestorm » Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:13 pm

She may be assumed a Royal due to the comment about etiquette lessons. The overlords we have seen haven't leaned too much on etiquette, but Ansom knew the difference of forks for his popped rations.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 043

Postby CordialLupine » Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:20 pm

I found this interesting, since it went in-depth with Marika's and Jillian's relationship, which I don't believe was described before.

I don't find Wanda creepy here, just very sad. She's sort of broken inside, and has a very mournful way about her. I wonder if she recovers to her (seemingly happier) state due to her forming a relationship with Jillian, or due to some other factor (Crushing Haffaton?).
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 043

Postby MonteCristo » Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:21 pm

oslecamo2_temp wrote:So, anyone mind explaining me how subordinate units starting to refuse orders and mess up their combat formations out of personal envy and lover's quarrels doesn't qualify for "auto-disband if you try to go against your side"?

Because you can refuse an order so long as you think its in the best interests of the side; If you think your idea is betterfor the side, duty allows you to fudge orders to do it.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 043

Postby MarbitChow » Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:39 pm

oslecamo2_temp wrote:So, anyone mind explaining me how subordinate units starting to refuse orders and mess up their combat formations out of personal envy and lover's quarrels doesn't qualify for "auto-disband if you try to go against your side"?
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 043

Postby bladestorm » Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:42 pm

CordialLupine wrote:I found this interesting, since it went in-depth with Marika's and Jillian's relationship, which I don't believe was described before.

I don't find Wanda creepy here, just very sad. She's sort of broken inside, and has a very mournful way about her. I wonder if she recovers to her (seemingly happier) state due to her forming a relationship with Jillian, or due to some other factor (Crushing Haffaton?).

This may be her way of coping with the loss of her own family. There is no mark left behind by her entire Side, so to compensate, she makes sure that even lowly infantry soldiers have a mark left behind for someone to remember them. I could be that after enough stories are shared, Jillian builds a memorial to the other Firebaughs.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 043

Postby Tesslyn » Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:36 pm

oslecamo2_temp wrote:So, anyone mind explaining me how subordinate units starting to refuse orders and mess up their combat formations out of personal envy and lover's quarrels doesn't qualify for "auto-disband if you try to go against your side"?


Chief Warlord is submissive to/fancies you probably affects the natural thinkamancy.

At the very least Jillian was probably worried about Marika, and the worry would potentially be a subconcious suppression of the autodisband mechanic?

I mean like if Benjaman did something defiant Don would probably halt auto disbandment because the side depends on him. Maybe its a setting that can be disabled?

You can see from Stanely's threat to Maggie that he thnks she might pull something slippery since as a caster she's 'too precious' to disband. He would likely not say that if doing something slippery automatically triggered it. Possibly Warlords/Casters have a little 'Are you sure' popup for Ruler/CWL

We've seen in Jetstone that the CWL can overrule the Ruler to some degree on military matters. What factors this depends on are unknown. Likely the Ruler's regard and confidence in the CWL mixed with their tolerance for lip.

Though it ties with Sun Tzu supposedly telling a King/Emperor that he would -not- halt an execution (of his concubines no less) because it was up to a 'general' to decide 'military' strategy once the Ruler had given the initial orders.

Possibly the CWL has final say over combat disbandment? Which could be interesting if Caeser makes a move on Don and makes a CWL coup possible.. which would make Caseser's actions more logical.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 043

Postby Ansan Gotti » Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:30 pm

Just have to say... this was achingly beautiful prose. One of my favorite text updates ever.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 043

Postby the_tick_rules » Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:09 am

So Jillian kinda likes being dominated it seems. One more piece of her and Wanda's previously WTF association comes into place.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 043

Postby querzis » Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:17 am

Whispri wrote:
Azukar wrote:
Whispri wrote:She's not creepy, she's just being 'the crone' after being 'the maiden' at Goodminton. Gobwin Knob era Wanda is clearly in the lengthy period 'twixt 'the maiden' and 'the mother' that occurs when girls listen to Nanny Ogg, but we may see her as 'the mother' if she founds her own Side.

She's creepy.

She's not even slightly creepy.


Creepy is a subjective thing man. As far as I'm concerned (and I'm obviously not the only one) yes, shes very very creepy. And I'm not talking about just now, I'm talking about the main story as well. She wasnt creepy back when she was still with her side though.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 043

Postby mortissimus » Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:19 am

Kreistor wrote:We see Wanda name her Overlord "Father" during the Goodminton days and Tommy a brother, and we see Slately's sons refer to him as father and each other as brothers. This tells us that popped Commanders (instead of raised) can feel familial relations to both other Commanders (siblings) and Overlords/Kings/Queens (father/mother).


We also know that not all popped Commanders are children to the ruler and that not all popped Commanders under Kings/Queens are Royal, but some are instead Noble. My guess is that popped Commanders in the Capital are Children (the known examples fit this) and thus Royal if the ruler is Royal, and that Commanders popped in other cities are not Children and thus Noble if the ruler is Royal or Noble.
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