Epilogue 12 - Maggie and the Great Minds

Page by page discussion of the comic.

Re: Epilogue 12 - Maggie and the Great Minds

Postby atalex » Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:13 pm

hehehe426 wrote:Pff, don't you know how shipping works? It doesn't matter if they're canon~!


Indeed, as the existence of multiple "Joxer+Ares" fanfic repositories would attest.
atalex
 
Posts: 283
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:08 pm

Re: Epilogue 12 - Maggie and the Great Minds

Postby atalex » Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:21 pm

0beron wrote:I'm not sure if I'm understanding your wording correctly, but if I am, I think you interpreting the Stanley thing totally wrong. Maggie needs to give him "activities" so that he doesn't have time to think and make his own decisions without advice. It's not that she needs him to continue behaving as he has, it's that she needs to prevent him from being reckless.


Personally, I have always suspected that Maggie or perhaps someone else has actively done something to Stanley to make him stupid and capricious. His earlier exploits -- a lowly piker rising to the level of Chief Warlord and Heir -- are inconsistent with the moron he has been portrayed as since Book 1, and several of his internal monologues have described his thinking processes in a manner that suggests a fog-like befuddlement rather than simply not being very smart. Given Maggie's known willingness to use suggestions on him, it's certainly possible that she or someone else did something more long term in the interests of making him pliable.
atalex
 
Posts: 283
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:08 pm

Re: Epilogue 12 - Maggie and the Great Minds

Postby atalex » Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:28 pm

Mikalyaran wrote:Does anyone feel like they are clear on what kind of a threat Charlie really poses to the Great Minds? In this update they seem primarily concerned with keeping metaphysical stuff from him. Complicated Thinkamancers stuff. Furthermore, as barbarian with no side WHAT kind of a threat is he really? Si what if he can fuck with the g-strings and frequencies and such. They arn't really in the game so to speak. Many of them hire out to sides for short contracts mostly if to sides at all. They want their secrets protected but I have yet to see compelling evidence of why they things they want to hide (G-strings being the only concrete example I can think of.) are so valuable/worth hiding. So what? Charlie isn't blabbing about it to everyone anyway. What the hell is worth all this effort to them? Am I missing something?


My suspicion is that Charlie, who only has access to Thinkamancy by virtue of attunement, does not understand the metaphysical aspects of the discipline but clearly might wish to. If the GMTTA are aware that Charlie is a Carnymancer, they're probably terrified at the prospect of Charlie learning to manipulate G strings at will, perhaps (as just an example) by changing the Loyalty or Duty of anyone whose Thinkagrams he can hack.
atalex
 
Posts: 283
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:08 pm

Re: Epilogue 12 - Maggie and the Great Minds

Postby No one in particular » Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:09 pm

hehehe426 wrote:Pff, don't you know how shipping works? It doesn't matter if they're canon~!
Thank you! Someone gets it. ;p
"Are you always so pessimistic?"
"Not at all. I saved it for my last battle."
---
Got questions? Ask Count Downer!
User avatar
No one in particular
 
Posts: 530
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:48 pm
Location: Nowhere Atoll

Re: Epilogue 12 - Maggie and the Great Minds

Postby Zeku » Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:39 pm

atalex wrote:
0beron wrote:I'm not sure if I'm understanding your wording correctly, but if I am, I think you interpreting the Stanley thing totally wrong. Maggie needs to give him "activities" so that he doesn't have time to think and make his own decisions without advice. It's not that she needs him to continue behaving as he has, it's that she needs to prevent him from being reckless.


Personally, I have always suspected that Maggie or perhaps someone else has actively done something to Stanley to make him stupid and capricious. His earlier exploits -- a lowly piker rising to the level of Chief Warlord and Heir -- are inconsistent with the moron he has been portrayed as since Book 1, and several of his internal monologues have described his thinking processes in a manner that suggests a fog-like befuddlement rather than simply not being very smart. Given Maggie's known willingness to use suggestions on him, it's certainly possible that she or someone else did something more long term in the interests of making him pliable.


Both of these posts are pretty informative. Atalex, that is true about Stanley, though it is still possible that he was simply manipulated into a powerful position, or simply stumbled on the arkentool and was attuned due to his sensibility: dramatic, confident flashiness.

Zero, if you read your last sentence, we're both saying the same thing. I'm simply noting that the reason why Stanley needs to be controlled in this way, is that like all people, he's subject to new personal tendencies if his routine changes.
Zeku
 
Posts: 282
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 8:35 am

Re: Epilogue 12 - Maggie and the Great Minds

Postby programancer » Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:44 pm

atalex wrote:
0beron wrote:I'm not sure if I'm understanding your wording correctly, but if I am, I think you interpreting the Stanley thing totally wrong. Maggie needs to give him "activities" so that he doesn't have time to think and make his own decisions without advice. It's not that she needs him to continue behaving as he has, it's that she needs to prevent him from being reckless.


Personally, I have always suspected that Maggie or perhaps someone else has actively done something to Stanley to make him stupid and capricious. His earlier exploits -- a lowly piker rising to the level of Chief Warlord and Heir -- are inconsistent with the moron he has been portrayed as since Book 1, and several of his internal monologues have described his thinking processes in a manner that suggests a fog-like befuddlement rather than simply not being very smart. Given Maggie's known willingness to use suggestions on him, it's certainly possible that she or someone else did something more long term in the interests of making him pliable.


Stanley's career could be called an example of the Peter Principle, which offers an explanation on why his early performance is inconsistent with his rulership. Also, I believe that winning battles is just one aspect of running a successful side, another being diplomacy and politics, for example, and these take different skillsets. The reason that Gobwin Knob was reduced to only the capital in the beginning of Book 1, was that Stanley was unpopular (after all, he was referred to as 'Stanley the Worm'), partly because Wanda manipulated him to crusade for the other Arkentools, and because he razed the home of a particular side's Chief Warlord's girlfriend, which is, as excuses for going to war go, good enough.

Actually, I think I accidentally agreed with you there, Stanley does get played a lot by his subordinates.
programancer
Erfabet + Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
Erfabet + Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 6:10 pm

Re: Epilogue 12 - Maggie and the Great Minds

Postby 0beron » Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:56 pm

Zeku wrote:Zero, if you read your last sentence, we're both saying the same thing. I'm simply noting that the reason why Stanley needs to be controlled in this way, is that like all people, he's subject to new personal tendencies if his routine changes.
No we're not, not if you actually read the entire paragraph so that the last sentence is in proper context. It has nothing to do with tendencies and routines, it has to do with the fact that he's an idiot so if he is left to his own devices he makes stupid decisions. By giving him "activities", she's not affecting his tendencies at all, she's simply removing the need for him to think for himself.
"I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."
GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.
User avatar
0beron
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
 
Posts: 3152
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:52 pm
Location: Morlock Wells

Re: Epilogue 12 - Maggie and the Great Minds

Postby Shai_hulud » Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:04 pm

Is anyone else concerned about how super insecure that temple actually looks? Couldn't they just put a veiled eyebook-like item up on the ceiling and then signal with flashing lights to a veiled transmitter outside the pillars? I mean holy shit that place looks like it would be super easy to spy on.
Shai_hulud
Pins Supporter!
Pins Supporter!
 
Posts: 698
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:57 pm

Re: Epilogue 12 - Maggie and the Great Minds

Postby 0beron » Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:08 pm

Shai_hulud wrote:Is anyone else concerned about how super insecure that temple actually looks?
Depends on what you mean by insecure. I think the spy technique you're envisioning would be harder than you make it sound, but I suppose it could be possible.
If you mean physical security though, then yeah it's a popsicle stand! Remember, combat doesn't happen in the MK, so they don't build defensible structures in that regard, they're even forbidden. If Charlie somehow musters a combat force in the MK too, the Temple will not be a strong position (though Sizemore could rapidly make it one)
"I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."
GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.
User avatar
0beron
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
 
Posts: 3152
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:52 pm
Location: Morlock Wells

Re: Epilogue 12 - Maggie and the Great Minds

Postby ManaCaster » Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:09 pm

Interesting that they don't consider him a caster, when recent events quite clearly point to him being one, and Janis herself claimed he was a Hippiemancer. Is this one of the things the predictamancers kept a secret from the Great Minds, or do they merely think that nothing has been done to unlock said caster special and that he's more warlord than caster anyways?
ManaCaster
 
Posts: 363
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:06 am

Re: Epilogue 12 - Maggie and the Great Minds

Postby 0beron » Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:13 pm

ManaCaster wrote:Recent events quite clearly point to [Parson] being [a caster].
Recent events from OUR perspective, remember the Great Minds aren't privy to everything we see. Nobody besides Parson knows he was about to succeed at casting that spell, so all the Great Minds have for evidence of his caster-ness is his ability to enter the MK, which can be chalked up to him being "special".
"I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."
GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.
User avatar
0beron
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
 
Posts: 3152
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:52 pm
Location: Morlock Wells

Re: Epilogue 12 - Maggie and the Great Minds

Postby Shai_hulud » Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:37 pm

0beron wrote:
Shai_hulud wrote:Is anyone else concerned about how super insecure that temple actually looks?
Depends on what you mean by insecure. I think the spy technique you're envisioning would be harder than you make it sound, but I suppose it could be possible.
You're kidding right? Can already think of like 2 ways it might be possible to tap the comms, and several ways to send across the pillar boundary.
0beron wrote:If you mean physical security though... (though Sizemore could rapidly make it one)
I don't, and Sizemore has no juice.
Shai_hulud
Pins Supporter!
Pins Supporter!
 
Posts: 698
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:57 pm

Re: Epilogue 12 - Maggie and the Great Minds

Postby 0beron » Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:41 pm

Shai_hulud wrote:Sizemore has no juice.
Well duh, I meant generally speaking. I don't think Charlie could attack the MK this turn even if he had a method to do so, and attacking GK city is more beneficial to him.
As for the issue of tapping comms, anything you could think of would require a traitor, and also require that traitor to read others' minds without them noticing.
"I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."
GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.
User avatar
0beron
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
 
Posts: 3152
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:52 pm
Location: Morlock Wells

Re: Epilogue 12 - Maggie and the Great Minds

Postby Shai_hulud » Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:48 pm

What? Why would it require a traitor? They have items that can do Thinkamancy and Foolamancy, they have non greatmind casters who can veil themselves. I'm not sure what your logic is here, but it doesn't seem sound. Makes me worry about ever letting you be in charge of information security. :?
Shai_hulud
Pins Supporter!
Pins Supporter!
 
Posts: 698
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:57 pm

Re: Epilogue 12 - Maggie and the Great Minds

Postby GWvsJohn » Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:52 pm

Shai_hulud wrote:What? Why would it require a traitor? They have items that can do Thinkamancy and Foolamancy, they have non greatmind casters who can veil themselves. I'm not sure what your logic is here, but it doesn't seem sound. Makes me worry about ever letting you be in charge of information security. :?


It would be nigh impossible to get a veiled unit into a room of high level thinkamancers, many of whom are proficient in look- or foolamancy.
GWvsJohn
 
Posts: 571
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:52 pm

Re: Epilogue 12 - Maggie and the Great Minds

Postby Zeku » Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:57 pm

Zero I honestly can't remember a single response from you that wasn't a zero-content nitpick. Maybe you can dig one up in the archive.

In this particular case you refused to acknowledge the point where our two statements overlap, and instead seem insistent upon point out the quite obvious areas where they diverge.

I agree with you on the part that I mentioned, I added the opinion about circumstances affecting behavior and consequently, behavior affecting personality, you said you disagree that Maggie is trying to prevent Stanley's behavior from changing, which is fine with me, because I was discussing Parson. I specifically drew attention to the unrelated but similar fact that Stanley, a simpler soul, could also start doing uncharacteristic things if left alone too long. This was used as evidence for my opinion about circumstances leading to personality change.

Why do we have to spam up the forum with this? Isn't this pretty straightforward? Isn't connecting unrelated concepts the essence of innovation?

I don't get it.
Zeku
 
Posts: 282
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 8:35 am

Re: Epilogue 12 - Maggie and the Great Minds

Postby Shai_hulud » Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:20 pm

GWvsJohn wrote:It would be nigh impossible to get a veiled unit into a room of high level thinkamancers, many of whom are proficient in look- or foolamancy.
Is this like in the cold war where the Americans were all "Herp derp what is a listening device?" ;) Srsly never putting you guys in charge of security.
Shai_hulud
Pins Supporter!
Pins Supporter!
 
Posts: 698
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:57 pm

Re: Epilogue 12 - Maggie and the Great Minds

Postby 0beron » Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:48 pm

Shai_hulud wrote:What? Why would it require a traitor?
Because I assume you are talking about spying for Charlie's benefit....and we've never seen a Thinkamancer who wasn't opposed to him. In fact, we have been told the Great Minds are opposed to Charlie specifically because he is a threat to Thinkamancy, so why any of them would ally with him is beyond me. So maybe he'd try to get a different caster in there to place an item...that's assuming they even let anyone else inside. Even under normal circumstances, it was just implied Maggie wouldn't even get to sleep here, so what makes you think they'll let a non-thinkamancer to waltz right in? They could come in veiled yes...but with the skilled Lookamancers sitting around that'd be hard to pull off. And then lastly, assuming they get in, they'd be placing a complex/powerful magic item that would have required a Thinkamancer to create in the first place...I'll bet you a Thinkamancer would get a little suspicious if someone asked them to build a device that passively reads the minds of those around it.

Zeku wrote:[Useless spam blather]
Ya know, I was gonna also comment on how all of the views/theories you come up with suggest an awfully cynical and negative worldview, but I decided to focus only on the specific argument at hand. But since you decided to go all personal, I don't have any reservations about ripping you a new one. All of your theories are at best thinly veiled gripes and musings about society with tenuous connections to erfworld, and you flip-flop your topics in mid-stream, presumably because you think nobody will notice you losing the argument. It's cool for you to have your opinions and all...but trying to couch yourself as some high-brow intellectual doesn't play out so well when your command of Language leaves a bit to be desired.
"I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."
GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.
User avatar
0beron
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
 
Posts: 3152
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:52 pm
Location: Morlock Wells

Re: Epilogue 12 - Maggie and the Great Minds

Postby badninja » Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:50 pm

arkerpay wrote:How belittling the "Great" Minds are. Who do they think they are, the Jedi council?


You know what, I can see them going this way. They have a very narrow view of what is going on and I am almost certain that the MK is about to fracture heavily between those who support Charlie and toes who do not. The thinkamancers are far to caught up in their own battle to see the bigger battle going on at the moment. Maggie has caught on and has realized that Parson needs all the info even the speculation because he can make plans for it and not be caught unawares. The carnarymancers are fully for Charlie I am willing to bet, being one of their own, how will the rest of the sides divided either for or against the thinkamancers or each individual unit making the choice. Maggie may end up screwing her self from higher position with the thinkamancers for her actions, but she will win because she has done her duty and that is giving her Chief Warlord all the necessary tools in order to win.
I came, I saw, I had fun!
badninja
YOTD + Erfabet + Pins + Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
YOTD + Erfabet + Pins + Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
 
Posts: 305
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:46 am
Location: Tatooine

Re: Epilogue 12 - Maggie and the Great Minds

Postby GWvsJohn » Sat Sep 21, 2013 4:02 pm

Shai_hulud wrote:
GWvsJohn wrote:It would be nigh impossible to get a veiled unit into a room of high level thinkamancers, many of whom are proficient in look- or foolamancy.
Is this like in the cold war where the Americans were all "Herp derp what is a listening device?" ;) Srsly never putting you guys in charge of security.


You're right, we did a terrible job in the Cold War, you know, winning and not devastating the planet in a nuclear apocalypse. We'll try harder next time :)

I think you're underestimating how hard getting a bug in would be.

First you probably need a think/look link to make the device. Probably not hard.

Second you need either a sneak (impossible IMO) or a traitor great mind with the balls to sneak into the temple and plant the device. Pretty hard.

Finally you need a bunch of high level Thinkamamcers proficient in Lookamancy to not notice it, which seems unlikely.

I don't see it happening.
GWvsJohn
 
Posts: 571
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:52 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Reactions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Xarx and 2 guests