Epilogue 11 - Lilith and Pierce

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Re: Epilogue 11 - Lilith and Pierce

Postby Shai_hulud » Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:33 am

Lilwik wrote:...I can't think of anything that high ranking Healomancers might be called.
That pervert with the cold hands?
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Re: Epilogue 11 - Lilith and Pierce

Postby Lipkin » Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:37 am

Lilwik wrote:
Zippy the Squirrel wrote:Pierce's "doctor" comment may just mean he has the Erfworld equivalent of a doctorate in something.
The more I think about it the more convinced I am that "Doctor" for Healomancers is probably something similar to "Mastermind" for Thinkamancers and "Grand Abbie" for Hippiemancers. Surely there is no discipline of magic that fails to give skilled casters impressive-sounding titles. If Doctor isn't a title given to high ranking Healomancers, then I can't think of anything that high ranking Healomancers might be called.

Except that Thinkomancers are a discipline, and Hippymancers are a class. Hippymancy covers Date-a-mancy, Signamancy, and Flower Power. They are different things, so I don't think a high rank title is universal.
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Re: Epilogue 11 - Lilith and Pierce

Postby wih » Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:35 am

Do we know that Grand Abbie is specific to Hippiemancers, and that titles are only specific to disciplines only?
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Re: Epilogue 11 - Lilith and Pierce

Postby Sir Shadow » Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:28 am

Lipkin wrote:
Lilwik wrote:
Zippy the Squirrel wrote:Pierce's "doctor" comment may just mean he has the Erfworld equivalent of a doctorate in something.
The more I think about it the more convinced I am that "Doctor" for Healomancers is probably something similar to "Mastermind" for Thinkamancers and "Grand Abbie" for Hippiemancers. Surely there is no discipline of magic that fails to give skilled casters impressive-sounding titles. If Doctor isn't a title given to high ranking Healomancers, then I can't think of anything that high ranking Healomancers might be called.

Except that Thinkomancers are a discipline, and Hippymancers are a class. Hippymancy covers Date-a-mancy, Signamancy, and Flower Power. They are different things, so I don't think a high rank title is universal.

Well if you think about it, the disciplines in Hippymancy are a bit more closely related than some of the other classes. Just look at Clevermancy: Luckomancy, Healomancy, and Moneymancy. You think they're going to regard the same time of person with respect? Not that I think this discussion matters at all, I'm just saying

I doubt the term 'doctor' meant anything special, it wasn't even capitalized, so we know he wasn't referring to any kind of position or title.
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Re: Epilogue 11 - Lilith and Pierce

Postby 0beron » Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:40 am

Yeah, like I said earlier...."puns before logic". I don't mean that Rob makes puns at the expense of logic...but if the rules don't forbid a pun, then he's going to make it. The EULA for example....served no mechanical purpose, and really didn't tell us anything about the rules, but there was enough wiggle room in the rules for him to do it, so he made the pun. This is probably the same situation.
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Re: Epilogue 11 - Lilith and Pierce

Postby Urf » Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:01 am

It's a Cheers reference.

It's a powerful and archaic name, chosen specifically for Bebe Neuwirth's role as well as the Archon in question as both characters' narrative arc is resistant, Other-ed, and unnatural. It's not one thing or another, it's ALL of them.
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Re: Epilogue 11 - Lilith and Pierce

Postby cheeseaholic » Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:35 am

I'm surprised that nobody's commented on a decrypted needing a latrine yet. Is food/drink needed, or does shit just pop into their butts? I wonder if Jetstone's paying for her rations.
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Re: Epilogue 11 - Lilith and Pierce

Postby 0beron » Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:14 pm

cheeseaholic wrote:I wonder if Jetstone's paying for her rations.
Yes and no. It's been firmly established that a side pays to feed it's prisoners. Seeing as Decrypted have no upkeep....I'm not sure whether she has been getting rations. We have seen units eat things other than their rations before, so there must be some sense of hunger or at least ability to eat even if you're not hungry.
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GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
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Re: Epilogue 11 - Lilith and Pierce

Postby splintermute » Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:41 pm

cheeseaholic wrote:I'm surprised that nobody's commented on a decrypted needing a latrine yet. Is food/drink needed, or does shit just pop into their butts? I wonder if Jetstone's paying for her rations.


I think they require conventional food/drink upkeep - just not schmuckers. In a completely decrypted world, Sizemore would quickly run out of golem construction materials.
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Re: Epilogue 11 - Lilith and Pierce

Postby OneHugeTuck » Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:09 pm

cheeseaholic wrote:I'm surprised that nobody's commented on a decrypted needing a latrine yet. Is food/drink needed, or does shit just pop into their butts? I wonder if Jetstone's paying for her rations.


She was attempting seduction, and escape. Thus, a ploy to get the knights (and anybody else if possible) out of the room.
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Re: Epilogue 11 - Lilith and Pierce

Postby Jinren » Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:10 pm

Perhaps the zero-upkeep ceases to apply when the unit is removed from the influence of the Pliers? Either normal rules coming back into effect, or because the Pliers themselves were "paying" upkeep externally all along, or something. We know that prisoner status breaks at least one kind of natural magic link, and decrypted appear to have more such links than other units.
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Re: Epilogue 11 - Lilith and Pierce

Postby Tonot » Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:11 pm

cheeseaholic wrote:I'm surprised that nobody's commented on a decrypted needing a latrine yet. Is food/drink needed, or does shit just pop into their butts? I wonder if Jetstone's paying for her rations.



Decrypted eat brains, surely?. :shock: :lol:
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Re: Epilogue 11 - Lilith and Pierce

Postby Mikalyaran » Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:21 pm

OneHugeTuck wrote:
cheeseaholic wrote:I'm surprised that nobody's commented on a decrypted needing a latrine yet. Is food/drink needed, or does shit just pop into their butts? I wonder if Jetstone's paying for her rations.


She was attempting seduction, and escape. Thus, a ploy to get the knights (and anybody else if possible) out of the room.


Except she thinks to herself that she really does need to. That serves no purpose in a ploy.
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Re: Epilogue 11 - Lilith and Pierce

Postby Lilwik » Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:58 pm

cheeseaholic wrote:I'm surprised that nobody's commented on a decrypted needing a latrine yet.
That is a tricky question! Thanks for pointing it out; I thought nothing of it when I first read that. We know that popping food in the morning costs shmuckers from Book 1, Page 39, and that cost is either all or part of the upkeep cost of a unit. Based on that page and the fact that uncroaked have no upkeep cost, I suspect that the food is the entire upkeep cost. We know that the food doesn't pop if the unit has access to another source of food, such as in Book 0, Episode 6. We've also seen people eating at other times and stealing food from enemy cities, all of which probably reduces their upkeep cost, but they also enjoy eating good food as seen in Book 0, Episode 38.

All of this together says to me that no food pops at dawn for the decrypted and they obviously don't die without the food, but they still eat sometimes because they seem every bit as alive as normal units and they probably enjoy eating just like a normal unit. Gobwin Knob's treasury is vast, so maybe they don't mind spending some shmuckers to give the higher ranking decrypted's some food to eat, or perhaps Lilith ate some food that was stolen from one of the many enemy cities that Gobwin Knob's been capturing. Perhaps so much of Gobwin Knob's army is decrypted that there aren't enough living units to eat all of the food that the farms produce and the rest would just go to waste if the decrypted units didn't rescue it.
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Re: Epilogue 11 - Lilith and Pierce

Postby ManaCaster » Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:01 pm

0beron wrote:Yes and no. It's been firmly established that a side pays to feed it's prisoners. Seeing as Decrypted have no upkeep....I'm not sure whether she has been getting rations. We have seen units eat things other than their rations before, so there must be some sense of hunger or at least ability to eat even if you're not hungry.

I don't know if they need to eat, but yes, they definitely can. Just observe the decrypted dwagons during the battle!

Lilwik wrote:Perhaps so much of Gobwin Knob's army is decrypted that there aren't enough living units to eat all of the food that the farms produce and the rest would just go to waste if the decrypted units didn't rescue it.

How long do rations last, anyways? Abandoned Haffaton cities keep stocks of poisoned food that no one eats, so probably a while at least.
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Re: Epilogue 11 - Lilith and Pierce

Postby ftl » Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:05 pm

ManaCaster wrote:How long do rations last, anyways? Abandoned Haffaton cities keep stocks of poisoned food that no one eats, so probably a while at least.


It's hard to tell based on Haffaton, because Haffaton has a Florist. It seems like making rations which last longer than usual (if there is in fact a usual limit) would be the sort of thing Olive could do.
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Re: Epilogue 11 - Lilith and Pierce

Postby Lilwik » Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:35 pm

ManaCaster wrote:How long do rations last, anyways? Abandoned Haffaton cities keep stocks of poisoned food that no one eats, so probably a while at least.
That's a good point, but we know from Parson's walking around the city that many of a city's nonmilitary facilities don't need anyone manning them to function, so I believe that farms produce food just by existing. Even abandoned cities might have a continuously replenishing supply of food. Olive may have magically adjusted the farms to get them to produce only poisoned food for the cities.

On the other hand, it wouldn't surprise me at all if food didn't decay in Erfworld. Food preservation is exactly the sort of trivial detail that Erfworld seems to like to gloss over. Even so, a city would surely have a limited capacity for storing food, so if there aren't enough people to eat the food that the city produces then the storage capacity would quickly be used up and food production would need to stop, which would be nothing but a waste.
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Re: Epilogue 11 - Lilith and Pierce

Postby ManaCaster » Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:44 pm

Lilwik wrote:Even so, a city would surely have a limited capacity for storing food, so if there aren't enough people to eat the food that the city produces then the storage capacity would quickly be used up and food production would need to stop, which would be nothing but a waste.

For all we know, food might function similarly to a treasury, with extra food getting stored in hammerspace until the physical shelves are low on stock.
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Re: Epilogue 11 - Lilith and Pierce

Postby Lilwik » Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:36 pm

ManaCaster wrote:For all we know, food might function similarly to a treasury, with extra food getting stored in hammerspace until the physical shelves are low on stock.
Shmuckers aren't physical objects. I think we learned that in one of the klogs in Book 1. On the contrary, food is physical. Parson has held it in his hands and eaten it, and it was just like Stupidworld food, so clearly it requires a certain amount of space to store.
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Re: Epilogue 11 - Lilith and Pierce

Postby ManaCaster » Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:56 pm

Lilwik wrote:Shmuckers aren't physical objects.

Gems are the physical representation of schmuckers. It could just be value representation, but then, food could also just be value representation when in the hands of anyone that isn't a stupidworlder.
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