Book 2 – Epilogue 02 – Jack Decrypted

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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 02 – Jack Decrypted

Postby CelebrenIthil » Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:45 am

Well then, we might have the beggining of an answer on why no one breathed a word about Judy and the Arkenpliers to Parson... Dun-Dun-DUN!

Meanwhile, return of a male artist, Wanda gets a rather gratuitous buttshot in the first panel she appears in (face not shown). Coincidence? *sigh* I don't mind the new art style in itself, but I'll have to readjust to the "heterosexual male gaze" dictating what shows in the panels, it seems...
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 02 – Jack Decrypted

Postby No one in particular » Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:46 am

Theory!

We've all been pondering what started the fire in the Garden in the last IPTSF. Answer? Charlie! And why? So he can sell his services to Faq to recapture Olive at the low, low price of never telling anyone what they know about him EVER.

It's a classic Charlie move, too! (Charlie's Rule #3: We are in the business of solving problems for our clients. Corollary: Creating problems for our clients creates business.)

Also, it maximizes his profit on how this whole Haffaton-Faq thing will turn out. If he strikes a deal with Olive, he can get Haffaton to leave him alone & maybe swear to never repeat the story of the Wizard ever again. If he strikes a deal with Faq, he can do the NDA deal AND get rid of a giant thorn in his side who tried to kill him a while ago!
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 02 – Jack Decrypted

Postby drachefly » Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:02 am

Book 0 intersects Book 2... interesting. I'm glad for him that he doesn't worship her, though it may be a while before he can get his snark back on her... but from a story point of view, it would be interesting if decryption had messed him up more.

As for the art, these two panels are meh. The story and writing can carry Erfworld - I'm no art quality snob - but that's my impression.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 02 – Jack Decrypted

Postby randint » Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:28 am

Mikalyaran wrote:Does she not care what he calls her because knowing about Charlie's contract is more important? Or because it is Jack Snipe and of all the beings she has decrypted she needs him to be more than just another worshipper? I'm sure if she came down on his personality right now when his "re-aligning" is fresh she could have a serious effect. But she doesn't. That's pleasing. .


We've never seen evidence that Wanda cares what any of her decrypted call her, most simply choose 'mistress'. On the other hand she does (also recalling book 0) care about all units, and I'm sure Jack is not only strategically important to her (now that his oath is ended), but also personally important as someone who she has spend a lot of time with.

Shai_hulud wrote:What do you suppose Jack meant by thinking that he was on a different "plane" beneath the "visual"? Do you think he is some sort of ghost? An insight into how Decryption and maybe Croackamancy actually work?

I think he was saying that the 're-aligning' done to him was on a plane just beneath the visual (i.e. mental or something), not that he was now on a below-the-visual plane (we saw Ossomer turn, and he remained as real as ever)

Anyway, great update, my only complaint is that it is too short! I actually want to hear more of Jack's thoughts about his new world view.

And I requested this before, but I'm sure it got lost amids the other comments:
Rob, can you please post the text below the illustrated image as simple plain text? It would make reading this for me so much easier!
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 02 – Jack Decrypted

Postby fjolnir » Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:36 am

I think it is interesting though that while everyone else decrypted sees wanda as their better, Jack (so far) is the only one who processes his now elevated opinion of wanda and generates "equal" or "peer" which is telling in his choice to use "sister wanda".
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 02 – Jack Decrypted

Postby ThisIsNotDan » Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:40 am

One major art improvement I noticed right away: there are now shadows around characters' eyes. This makes a huge difference in making them look realistic, and I really appreciate it! I feel like the art has already improved quite a bit; the only thing I really thought looked amateur-ish this time around is the strap thing around Wanda's legs. I would assume it's skin-tight, and thus needs some kind of shading to indicate how it causes her skin to flex inward. Jack's tie could maybe use some shading too, or maybe not. It seems to me like Dave is still getting used to using shading and shadows and whatnot, and we have just been spoiled by Xin's mastery thereof. I look forward to the art continually improving as Dave gets the hang of things!

Also, in case Dave reads this: don't let too many criticisms get you down. There will always be a little pain associated with a new artist stepping in, but we are all very grateful that you're willing to commit this kind of time and effort to Erfworld at all!
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 02 – Jack Decrypted

Postby MadZuri » Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:40 am

I have a question. Would the pliers instantly dust a decrypted on a hit? They did to uncroaked units. Since we know one can accidently hit a friendly unit in close quarters (looking at you, Artemis), Wanda resizing something that means instant death to nearly every unit in a small space might have been the best option.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 02 – Jack Decrypted

Postby youngstormlord » Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:48 am

Completely unrelated to current update (art needs a little more work imo, I'd like text and pictures and not just a big picture btw), I think I know how to get Capital back to Gobwin Knob.

Step 1. Empty the city.
Step 2. Ask one of the barbarian casters to step through the portal.
Step 3. Barbarian caster has just captured your capital city! Stanley is free to name GK Capital again.
Step 4. Stanley does so.

Alternatively, ask a caster from some other side "Hey, do you want to capture a city for your side?"
Don't click on this link, you might feel cheated if you do.
Hint:
Spoiler: show
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My erf PC game (first test version): Jack Attack Update: Gone after fall of megaupload. Update2: Uploaded again on another hosting. Give it a go.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 02 – Jack Decrypted

Postby Kreistor » Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:36 pm

Oh... my... brain... hurts.

Everything has to be reviewed. Absolutely everything. We now have to consider Jack as a mole for Charlie. It can begin with Charlie knowing when Parson became CW. No Archons, Thinkamancy tapping, hacking, or cracking. Jack bleedin' told him. And how Charlie knows so much about Parson... Jack told him. Every little side comment about his background, all of it laid bare for Charlie.

And Wanda knew Jack had a Deal. And didn't tell Parson. That had to be part of the contract. Wanda's contract will still be in place, though.

Oh, my feeble little brain is going to warp with this. I'm going to have to re-read the whole thing. From the start. Everything... everything needs to be reviewed... Jack knew so very much...
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 02 – Jack Decrypted

Postby kiyote » Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:38 pm

I have a question. Would the pliers instantly dust a decrypted on a hit? They did to uncroaked units. Since we know one can accidently[sic] hit a friendly unit in close quarters (looking at you, Artemis), Wanda resizing something that means instant death to nearly every unit in a small space might have been the best option.


It seems like attacks (like most things in Erfword) are based on the natural thinkamancy of intention. If she bumps into something without the intention of attacking it, it probably doesn't count as an attack. The unit may take damage, but not nearly as much. It's probably the complete opposite of harvesting, where a weak attack can count as a one-hit K.O., but needs to come with the intention of doing exactly that.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 02 – Jack Decrypted

Postby coyotenose » Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:41 pm

I got shivers with this one. Scene after scene after scene replaying in my mind, all making so much sense now. And yet it still isn't all made clear. Absolutely gorgeous.

It makes me think sadly of how I can't get my friends or family to keep reading past my copy of Book One, because they don't think the characters are coherent. I explain to them that yes, they are, they are complex people and everything they do is for a reason if you just keep bloody reading instead of telling me that you somehow know it all already. As an example, they assumed that Stanley is a paranoid maniac because he thought he might have been betrayed when his dragons were decimated, but they didn't keep reading, so they never learned that he is certain he saw someone in the room with him croak her own king.
Last edited by coyotenose on Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 02 – Jack Decrypted

Postby Zeku » Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:42 pm

Does someone recall the post that goes into detail about how Jack sees the world in his living body?

The art is just what it's supposed to be, a bulkier version of Jamie's super-stylized pastel doodles. Jamie drew everything as if it were a detail at the back of a picture, and Xin drew everything along a precisely measured perspective with everything centered. I don't care if the characters look like nostril people as long as we get the artists' genuine take on the scene.

If the art looked perfect then it wouldn't be Erfworld at all. Please don't stress this new guy out with a bunch of crap, the writing is the main thing.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 02 – Jack Decrypted

Postby No one in particular » Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:55 pm

Kreistor wrote:Oh... my... brain... hurts.

Everything has to be reviewed. Absolutely everything. We now have to consider Jack as a mole for Charlie. It can begin with Charlie knowing when Parson became CW. No Archons, Thinkamancy tapping, hacking, or cracking. Jack bleedin' told him. And how Charlie knows so much about Parson... Jack told him. Every little side comment about his background, all of it laid bare for Charlie.

And Wanda knew Jack had a Deal. And didn't tell Parson. That had to be part of the contract. Wanda's contract will still be in place, though.

Oh, my feeble little brain is going to warp with this. I'm going to have to re-read the whole thing. From the start. Everything... everything needs to be reviewed... Jack knew so very much...

I think you're over-reacting here. For one, we don't know the details of the contract; likely it was just an NDA about Charlie's past and the details of the contract. A lifetime contract that calls for a unit to give free intel to another side if/whenever they ask for it is insanely unreasonable, and likely would always be running against Duty & Loyalty. Even Parson's contract with Charlie a) has a limited number of times Charlie can call on it and b) allows Parson to refuse if it would be detrimental to his Side.

Alternately, if you want to have some fun, consider THIS theory: Charlie's Influence Runs Deep

Zeku wrote:Does someone recall the post that goes into detail about how Jack sees the world in his living body?

Two possible posts:
LIAB Text 10
"Foolamancy is Eyemancy. By habit and trade, a Foolamancer must look. At all times, the Foolamancer must observe the nouns around him in finest detail and broadest stroke, in a way that other minds do not. Other minds take shortcuts. Other minds construct, telling themselves stories about what they see, rather than seeing. Foolamancy is therefore only a narrative. To tell a mind it sees something, the Foolamancer must both see the world as it is, and also as it is seen.
Staring into the void of that discrepancy is what drives one mad, really."


LIAB Text 21
"Jack glanced around. Habitually, he sought out the lines and dots of the scenery, the little hooks that other minds used to build their idea of the world around them."
"Are you always so pessimistic?"
"Not at all. I saved it for my last battle."
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 02 – Jack Decrypted

Postby coyotenose » Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:59 pm

randint wrote:We've never seen evidence that Wanda cares what any of her decrypted call her, most simply choose 'mistress'. On the other hand she does (also recalling book 0) care about all units, and I'm sure Jack is not only strategically important to her (now that his oath is ended), but also personally important as someone who she has spend a lot of time with.


In Book 0, Wanda was new and fresh, and that affected how she saw her Uncroaked. I get the impression that she is now either jaded regarding them, having made and lost so many, or else she doesn't care about Decrypted as much as she did Uncroaked. It's almost as if she doesn't considered Decrypted, or at least all Decrypted, to be as "real" as her Uncroaked, perhaps because Life is outside her purview. We know she doesn't give a boop about other magical disciplines, after all.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 02 – Jack Decrypted

Postby 0beron » Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:03 pm

Yeah, Kriestor you are tooootally overacting. Like No-One said, such a deal would be horribly unreasonable if not outright impossible (even if it were accepted and the unit could convince themselves that the benefit of the deal fulfilled their Duty enough to offset the massive harm of such intel, that logic would stop working as soon as he left FAQ, since he is no longer on the side the benefited from the contract.). So from a plot perspective it's neigh impossible.

Also from a meta perspective I have to say that such an explanation would be really lame, and actually diminish Charlie's power/threat. With the explanation we have now, Charlie is a dangerous hacker who knows things that he shouldn't and is someone the GMtTA are scared of. If your interpretation is correct, he's instead an annoying mob boss who just happened to get lucky enough to "blackmail" 2-3 units who turn out to be really important thousands of turns later.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 02 – Jack Decrypted

Postby No one in particular » Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:07 pm

0beron wrote:Also from a meta perspective I have to say that such an explanation would be really lame, and actually diminish Charlie's power/threat. With the explanation we have now, Charlie is a dangerous hacker who knows things that he shouldn't and is someone the GMtTA are scared of. If your interpretation is correct, he's instead an annoying mob boss who just happened to get lucky enough to "blackmail" 2-3 units who turn out to be really important thousands of turns later.

Although, that would TOTALLY fit in with his being a carnymancer/the Wizard of Oz. Some power, sure, but mostly flash & misdirection and a hell of a lot of cheating. :D
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 02 – Jack Decrypted

Postby 0beron » Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:12 pm

No one in particular wrote:Although, that would TOTALLY fit in with his being a carnymancer/the Wizard of Oz. Some power, sure, but mostly flash & misdirection and a hell of a lot of cheating. :D
Eh, I'd still see it as a let down. It's much more fitting that he cheated his way into learning about G-Strings and rigging them with Carnymancy, rather than simply getting lucky once upon a time. And the GMtTA ARE afraid of him, and I don't think they would be unless they knew for sure he was using G-Strings.
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GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 02 – Jack Decrypted

Postby Aquillion » Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:16 pm

0beron wrote:Hmmmmm interesting!
I love this different way Jack has of seeing Wanda....she's Sister instead of Mistress to him! Interesting that'd he'd be different, and it alludes back to the FAQ tradition of addressing casters. I like it.
As for Charlie....that makes me suspicious. I'm reading it as suggesting Jack had a deal with Charlie that involved some service which Charlie can no longer call upon. Time will tell I guess.

The implication, I think, is that Charlie bound Wanda, Jack, and everyone else to not speak of something, presumably related to Book 0. That was why Wanda was so eager to see Jack decrypted, because it would free him of his contract to Charlie never to speak of it, and allow him to tell Parson something vital -- but she couldn't tell Parson that, because that would be breaking the contract, and she couldn't even talk to Jack about it because they aren't even able to discuss it among themselves, so it looked like she was eager to decrypt Jack purely for personal reasons.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 02 – Jack Decrypted

Postby BCCroaker » Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:17 pm

Jack was decrypted in the MC. Is it possible that decrypted casters can't use portals?
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 02 – Jack Decrypted

Postby Silverhorn » Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:19 pm

0beron wrote:Unrelated to the plot, I have to say I'm not at all a fan of the 'Pliers in this new art style. They're actually normal sized in relation to Wanda, as opposed to the oversized proportions they always have been.
Mikalyaran wrote:And he will know it as well. He did get his Archon right?
Yeah he doesn't have it yet because Jetstone had it in captivity and they're fleeing to Jetstone city. I imagine he'll send Archons to pick it up next turn.


Don't stress about the small size of the pliers, it is probably not permanent.

1) The pliers can be resized at will.
http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/ ... -08-12.png

2) It was very crowded in there and given how possessive Wanda is, she probably did not want to be accidently bumping people withe full sized verision.
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