Parson as a Naughtymancer?

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Parson as a Naughtymancer?

Postby Mikalyaran » Sat Aug 03, 2013 4:45 pm

http://www.erfworld.com/hires-book-2-ar ... -11-19.png

"How is a Luckamancer like a Naughtymancer?" "One rules the breaks; the other breaks the rules."

Parson as a Naughtymancer? Maybe he needs to sort things out with the remaining archons before he can unlock his true Naughtymancy potential!
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Re: Parson as a Naughtymancer?

Postby Taikei no Yuurei » Sun Aug 04, 2013 5:10 am

Fairly sure GK just lost all their Archons.

BUT he is hanging out in MK now, so if he does have any casting potential he's likely to find it very soon.
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Re: Parson as a Naughtymancer?

Postby randint » Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:07 pm

Taikei no Yuurei wrote:Fairly sure GK just lost all their Archons.

BUT he is hanging out in MK now, so if he does have any casting potential he's likely to find it very soon.


He does have casting potential though, the mathemancy bracelet told him so. I'm talking about the non-zero chance that he could cast a dirtamancy spell to put out the inferno.

I personally don't buy that Parson fits in any single one -mancy/cater type. Even other casters are able, to varying degree, to cast outside their magic schools, so I don't see the 'types' as constricting, more like just guidelines for most casters. So there could be a generic non-specific school of mancy unit capable of casting spells from most schools. That's my view anyway, partly because even if he's in Erf, he is originally from Earth, where clear-cut and well defined boundaries don't exist (i.e. no turns, real time combat, no hit points, no juice, etc etc)

Although, if Parson was a caster, Naughymancy would be a fun one.
What Parson's slogan should have been: "We break things. Sometimes that even works."
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Re: Parson as a Naughtymancer?

Postby Taikei no Yuurei » Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:29 pm

The odds were astronomical though. Given how much stuff in Erf is 'natural something-mancy', it might just be that any given unit has some utterly minimal chance of casting a spell. I doubt that though. I very much think that we're going to find out he is a caster of some kind fairly quickly in the prologue. And I also agree that he'll likely be some sort of general caster with no full on specialty like the others.

Honestly though I have trouble seeing him uncroaking stuff. Besides it being against his character in general, it would be fairly pointless next to Wanda's decryption.

Edit: Well, there is still shockamancy I suppose, which likely would fit his character, as I'm sure he'd be very happy being able to shoot fireballs and lightning bolts and the like.
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Re: Parson as a Naughtymancer?

Postby mantimeforgot » Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:35 am

Naughtymancy breaks rules in the soft, setting new precedent sort of way. Croaked things are objects and don't move; a Croakamancer makes them units again. This is not a violation of laws in the way Parson does. Parson is an undefined caster in the same way he is an undefined unit. Parson's hypothetical casting ability seems to be dependent upon his conception of self and willingness to go against Erfworld. Pay attention to his statement about "two GM's." One GM wants him to play safely by the rules (What the "Boop?"), and the other essentially allows him to understand or do anything (Parson the burgeoning titan); 0% versus 98%; a complete lack of understanding versus full comprehension of the magic system (appearing virtually out of nowhere).

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Re: Parson as a Naughtymancer?

Postby Shai_hulud » Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:19 am

On shockamancy, Remember Stanley asked for someone who will shock and awe his enemies, and Parson's web bookmarks included a shock site. Plus, the one Shockamancer we've seen so far has been kind of perverted like Parson.
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Re: Parson as a Naughtymancer?

Postby mantimeforgot » Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:37 pm

I'm not saying that Parson is incapable of Shockamancy (that is a lesser included charge inside being able to potentially understand and cast all branches), but rather that Parson's ability to understand all forms of magic and having the ability to cast a Carnymancy spell with high proficiency (98+%) means that he is almost certainly not a Shockamancer.

Also, Parson is capable of Shocking his opponents in more ways than the limited purview of Shockamancy. The "brain shocks" or "mind freaks" that are under Shockamancy's purview does not include the "lateral thinking" of Parson exploiting Erfworld mechanics or engaging in strategic maneuvers that no one expects.


Side Note: I don't think we can honestly classify Parson as a pervert considering his interactions with Maggie and the Archons (his reasoning is far too noble imo; also pretty sure Maggie would happily do pretty much anything for Parson without the need for Orders).

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Re: Parson as a Naughtymancer?

Postby Shai_hulud » Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:00 am

mantimeforgot wrote:but rather that Parson's ability to understand all forms of magic
lulwat?
mantimeforgot wrote:and having the ability to cast a Carnymancy spell with high proficiency (98+%)
lulwat again. When has it been said using scrolls is hard?

mantimeforgot wrote:Also, Parson is capable of Shocking his opponents in more ways than the limited purview of Shockamancy. The "brain shocks" or "mind freaks" that are under Shockamancy's purview does not include the "lateral thinking" of Parson exploiting Erfworld mechanics or engaging in strategic maneuvers that no one expects.
What is this I don't even.


mantimeforgot wrote:Side Note: I don't think we can honestly classify Parson as a pervert considering his interactions with Maggie and the Archons (his reasoning is far too noble imo; also pretty sure Maggie would happily do pretty much anything for Parson without the need for Orders).
But not at time of summoning. Pervert in the sense of spending a significant amount of time looking at pron and thinking about owning sex slaves.
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Re: Parson as a Naughtymancer?

Postby mantimeforgot » Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:03 am

http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/LIAB_Text_59

“Jojo said it’s free will versus Fate,” he said. “But I’m really just getting railroaded by two different GMs here."

"He unbound and unrolled the scroll, holding it up in front of him. It shimmered brightly. His fingertips tingled. There were words on the parchment, a poetic stanza. But he couldn’t read them at first. He was seeing something else.

No, not seeing. More like...detecting, or knowing. There wasn’t a word for this sense, but some little compartment in his mind opened up, and what was in there was as rich in information as vision or hearing. He understood some of the things behind the things he could see."

"He spoke, with a new understanding of how to intone the words of a spell. It was as different from plain speech as singing, but in a magical way"



Parson gained insight into how ALL magic works, not just Carnymancy when he looked at the spell. And from the two GMs comment I conclude that Parson is himself one of the GMs. Erfworld wants him to not swear, be a good little Chief Warlord that can't cast magic, etc. Parson self-limits (he conceives of himself as chief warlord, so he can't cast magic), but then during rare moments of clarity he overcomes these limitations (Like during the destruction of Ruthlessness he successfully swears and that's where he begins to conceive of himself as a free-willed actor as opposed to a mere pawn). Here in the magic casting scene we see Parson slowly beginning to conceive of himself as something other than Chief Warlord and then "POOF" suddenly he manifests the ability to understand how all magic works and the ability to cast quite proficiently despite never having cast before nor being taught how to do it properly.


I forget where Wanda said it, but Wanda pointed out that casting outside of discipline will always cost more juice and have a much greater chance of failure.


Parson is capable of Shocking people in ways that Shockamancers don't. This means he could satisfy the "Shock and Awe" requirement in a literal way without it needing to be "Parson has Shockamancy;" though I do think Parson will eventually be able to use Shockamancy and more.

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Re: Parson as a Naughtymancer?

Postby Lipkin » Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:18 am

I took the "Two GMs" comment to mean Fate and Charlie. But whatever.

I'm someone who subscribes to the notion that Parson is a Signamancer. Not just because Janice said he was a Hippymancer, but because we have seen a lot of evidence towards it if you just think about it for a minute. I'm not even talking about the stuff like him making street signs.

Parson is constantly reading the signamancy of everything he sees. Everything on Erf means something to him. Everything is a reference to Stupid World that gives him a deeper understanding of what he is looking at than everything else. And if natural Signamancy is a reflection of what something really is, he's constantly trying to identify exactly what he is looking at, and trying to identify how it works. The Archons put on a light show, and he tries to decipher if it puts off heat, if it counts as an attack, and if there are any military applications. He's trying to figure out what everything is, and to me that speaks of Signamancy.
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Re: Parson as a Naughtymancer?

Postby ftl » Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:44 am

Casting from a scroll is different though. Wanda (a croakamancer) cast a findamancy/lookamancy scroll. Sizemore can cast shockamancy scrolls.

It seems like any caster can cast any scroll. Parson being able to cast that scroll (and understanding it) indicates he's a caster, but doesn't indicate what his primary discipline is or whether he has or doesn't have one.
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Re: Parson as a Naughtymancer?

Postby ftl » Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:46 am

mantimeforgot wrote:And from the two GMs comment I conclude that Parson is himself one of the GMs.


If he was one of the GMs, he wouldn't have said he's "being railroaded by two GMs".

You can't "be railroaded by" yourself. That doesn't make sense. You're 'railroaded' by a GM if the GM is forcing you to take a particular path in a game even when you try to avoid it. It makes no sense for that to be self-referential - "being railroaded by yourself" is just playing the game!
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Re: Parson as a Naughtymancer?

Postby mantimeforgot » Wed Sep 04, 2013 4:43 am

You certainly can be railroaded by yourself if you don't realize that you are the one responsible for tormenting yourself. Ignorance is not bliss especially if there is some sort of psycho-magical effect that actually causes physical consequences to you based on your mental state.

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Re: Parson as a Naughtymancer?

Postby Lipkin » Wed Sep 04, 2013 5:44 am

mantimeforgot wrote:You certainly can be railroaded by yourself if you don't realize that you are the one responsible for tormenting yourself. Ignorance is not bliss especially if there is some sort of psycho-magical effect that actually causes physical consequences to you based on your mental state.

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Charlie was forcing him to leave, Fate was forcing him to go after Charlie. Those are your two gms. Fate won that battle.
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Re: Parson as a Naughtymancer?

Postby Taikei no Yuurei » Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:03 am

mantimeforgot wrote:Pay attention to his statement about "two GM's." One GM wants him to play safely by the rules (What the "Boop?"), and the other essentially allows him to understand or do anything (Parson the burgeoning titan); 0% versus 98%; a complete lack of understanding versus full comprehension of the magic system (appearing virtually out of nowhere).

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I've always seen the two chances in a different light. Essentially, the 98% is his chance of casting a spell from a scroll, because he is in fact a caster. The 0% chance is because he is trying to cast a spell that would take him home, which fate is going to blindside him for. I've never really thought it was something like one of the purposed GMs was trying to deny that he was a caster, or even that anyone was messing with his watch, just that the watch was trying to display both true answers to his question, and fate dictated that it show the fate based one last, and thus most prominently.
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Re: Parson as a Naughtymancer?

Postby mantimeforgot » Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:36 am

An interesting thought Taikei... I had not considered it in that light, but I still feel as though we are missing something essential about Parson's nature. Sylvia describes Parson with an idea as having a feeling not dissimilar to that of the Arkentools, and Parson is able to interact with Erfworld a bit more directly than even casters seem to be able to do. Charlie can cheat fate all he likes, but something tells me he couldn't swear in Erfworld (he probably knows how given his knowledge of the "real world."), and if Parson is indeed a Caster, why should he necessarily have a discipline? Also, how can he be both a caster and a warlord; both units are capable of leadership but Erfworld can only pop one or the other (When you try to pop a warlord you get either a warlord or a caster); you can be a stabber upgraded to warlord and keep all your stabber skills, but it seems unlikely that a caster can be promoted and maintain their skills in the same way...


Also how did Parson essentially teach himself casting? He had no instruction in how magic is properly cast in Erfworld (his discussions on magic were on what you can do with it and what the metaphysics were not casting technique), so what is it about Parson that allowed him to simply learn out of the blue? I grant that it is possible Parson is in fact also a Caster of some kind, but how would Parson know how to access this, and would other units see him displayed differently whilst he was in a "casting frame of mind?" Would Chief Caster Parson cause his side to lose their Chief Warlord bonus?

Also, where did he acquire the level in Caster from? He was a level 2 Warlord at the start, and had a Chief Warlord bonus to match. When he just now gained his level he had been acting only in his capacity as Chief Warlord (in physical combat and planning combat), so where would the necessary experience to gain a level in caster be acquired?

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Re: Parson as a Naughtymancer?

Postby Lipkin » Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:49 am

You are assuming that Erf has a D&D like level progression system. We have no proof of that, mostly because we've never seen a dual class unit before. But it's equally possible that he was always a caster and only now realized it.
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Re: Parson as a Naughtymancer?

Postby wih » Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:13 am

Levels seem disconnected from Class. A level X Stabber can be promoted to Warlord, and become a level X Warlord. We have no reason to think that any multi-classing rules exist. More likely that his ability to cast, or to my mind even more likely that his Leadership, comes under "Special" (as so far the only thing ability-wise that really seems to separate Warlord-commanders from Caster-commanders is Leadership vs. Spells, and one of these seems far more extensive than the other).
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Re: Parson as a Naughtymancer?

Postby Lipkin » Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:04 am

It would be funny if Parson wasn't actually a warlord, didn't have leadership, and the small Chief Warlord bonus he has is actually the bonus that would normally be added to the leadership of a regular warlord when promoted. That's possible, right? He's never stacked when he wasn't CWL, so his WL bonus has never been added to anyone. If there is no rule preventing a caster from being made chief warlord, I think it would fit.
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Re: Parson as a Naughtymancer?

Postby Mikalyaran » Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:29 pm

He has def added his bonus to people before. Sylvia comments on it when he comes through the portal into spacerock.

http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/ ... -12-27.jpg
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