Battle for The Deeps (Part 1) Turn 1

[Fkrts]

The Drawfs have been causing problems for multiple sides of late and they have all sent armies to deal with them. The one issue is the city at the entrance to the Drawfen keep. It is currently controlled by Gobwin Knob who have deployed a small force there to deal with any invaders while their chief diplomat does her best to form an alliance with them. You have been tasked with destroying the force and granting access to the deeps for the main army which doesn’t want any delays once they reach the city. You have been given enough Schmuckers for the establishment of a level one city and a small amount of units.

Spoiler: show

White is clear and costs 1 movement to move across
Green is forested and takes 2 movement to move across
Red is mountains and it takes three movement to move across
Any square with blue on it cann't be moved across by anything but flyers unless there is also a brown rectangle on it.

Creating units

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All units have 5 stats
Combat
Hits
Defense
Move
Cost

Combat
Minimum of 1
Maximum of 10
Combat + defense must be less than Hits

Hits
Capped by specials
Minimum of 1

Defense
Minimum of 0
Maximum of 10
Combat + defense must be less than Hits

Move
Minimum of 0
Maximum of 5

A unit gains 1 cost for each point put into another skill
A unit cannot have a combined Combat and Defense greater than it's Health.
A unit with 1 move is siege 2 or 3 is infantry 4 is cavalry and 5 is flyer. A unit cannot have more than 5 move.
Without a special a unit cannot have more than 5 health

Specials
[spoiler ]Light: Enables the unit to enter tunnels and use mounts although when riding on a mount the light units movements are still used (LTDave)3 points
Heavy: Enables a unit to have between 6 and 15 hits 6 points
Ultra-Heavy: Enables a unit to have between 16 hits and 25 hits 14 points
Mount: Enables a unit to carry light units 7 points
Scout: Enables a unit to move in the Scouting phase 5 points
Commander: Gives unit the ability to give bonuses in combat equal to their level (1d6) 4 points
Digger: Enables the unit to dig trenches to give benefits to combat 2 points[/spoiler]

All groups get 5 different types of units (Including commanders)
And you start off with 100 points.

Combat

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The combat formula is following:

(Total combat of first 8 units * (1d10 +Miscellaneous) / 10) – (Total defense of first 8 units of the defending stack * (1d20 + (2 * Miscellaneous) / 20)
Miscellaneous benefits will mostly be at my choice except for commander level and trenches

Turns:

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Popping: Orders for new units are given and they are popped. New units are popped with full move and health
Restack: You may restack your units in any configuration and units heal to full
Scouting: Any stack with a unit with the scout special will scout reporting back on enemy units within a set radius.
Movement: All stacks can move up to their slowest moveing unit
Combat: Any unled stacks will auto-attack any enemy units in their stacks, and any led stacks can choose weather or not to attack
Movement: Any stack with movement remaining may move

Please tell me if I missed anything. Otherwise start signing up!

[0beron]

I don't intend to play, but reading over your rules I see one potential problem. You don't have costs listed for the specials, and depending on how you handle this there are problems. If you make specials have no cost, then they'll be abused and every unit will have as many specials as possible. If you do have costs for them, then Heavy and Ultra-Heavy should automatically get x Hits, because it seems unfair that they'd have to spend points on both the "ability" to have higher Hits, and on the Hits themselves.

[LTDave]

Looking good!
This is clearly early days for this ruleset, but you are off to a great start.
I'd change health to hits, as this is more comic related, and put them in canonical order ( ADHM ).
Much of it seems pretty close to the basics of TBfGB series - you might glean some inspiration from digging through those rules - if you have already gleaned there, you might like to give props etc to authors.

My advice on running these things is always to simplify. To that end, I recommend you adopt:
* The LTDave version of scouting, where it is automatic at the start of the turn. This cuts out a whole phase of action and waiting for orders like we had in the bad old days of Mine Island, and the very first TBfGB.
* The Marbitchow version of movement, where even if a unit is mounted on another unit, moving hexes eats up its move. A mounted unit with 0 move can continue to move if the mount has move remaining. This prevents a heap of painful issues with getting on and off mounts and shuffling about which drives GMs mad.
* You might want to cap defence, otherwise there is no disadvantage to building Zeppelin sized objects that do nothing but defend and soak up all the damage for their stack, becoming virtually undefeatable.

I commend you on your post, and look forward to a fuller version of these rules, and might even like to play.
Cheers

[Nnelg]

I'd like to play, although I have a somewhat unusual request...

If I'm correct in interpreting that you plan to run this like a RPG, with a party of players cooperating on one side, may I play as their opponent?

I'm a Hex-and-Counter Wargamer, not an RPG-er, so that would be more fun for me. I also don't need any fluff or trimmings, or anything of the sort; just tell me what forces I've got and my objective. Heck, you don't even need to make a map for me, just tell me what I see where and I can keep track of it myself.

[Fkrts]

Oberon: The point of the heavy and ultra-heavy is to keep high health unit to cost more and therefore keep high defense or combat units less likely to appear. And I guess I just forgot to post the cost of the specials Costs have been posted.

LTDave: I came from a different forum where health is hits. It will take me a while to get used to it.
I will look through old games for the rules you mentioned and will probably use some of them.
EDIT: Your scouting mechanisms are wonderful! Do you mind if I use them with a few tweaks? (Roll 1d4 when the scout is popped. This is the number of squares the scout can see.
And the big thing that I've been wondering is how overpowered defense is.

Nnelg: I probably will take you up on your offer, and will create a map containing everything. You're from Gobwin Knob and have no need for scouting. Exept they have two battles going on at the same time so Maggie can only get to you every other turn. And sometimes she just won't be able to send anything to you. (Every other turn you'll get updated turn movements unless I roll a 1 on a 1d6)

[Nnelg]

Ok then, as the GK expeditionary force my units should be: Gobwins, Spidews, Twolls, Dwagons, and Warlords.

I presume I will not have direct and/or complete control of the Dwarf units, if any exist.

Heavy and Ultra-Heavy should automatically get x Hits, because it seems unfair that they'd have to spend points on both the "ability" to have higher Hits, and on the Hits themselves.

To the contrary, I think it's a good way to keep prices accurate according to power. Otherwise, one beefy unit might cost significantly less than two units with the same combined combat and health values.

[Fkrts]

Rules are updated. Slightly

[Lamech]

It strikes me that the heavy tax isn't enough. If I make all light infantry, the costs for hits+move+attack will be ten apiece. 2 move ups the cost to twelve. So I buy 8 of those. I get say 16 attack 24 defense and 40 hits. One can get leadership too. Alternatively I could buy one ultra-heavy unit, with 16 attack, 24 defense, 2 move and 40 hits, and leadership.

Okay, for the first round the odds are fairly balanced. But as soon as the first hit lands units start melting away from the infantry. Still reasonably okay though, since the little guys can separate. The problem comes in if the big guy stacks with another big guy. Now the big guys are rolling 32 for attack, and 48 for defense. And of course, if 8 get together things are completely out of hand; 192 defense. A reasonable leadership means the little guys can't even hurt the big guys.

Hence I recommend a max stack size based on hits instead of units.

[Fkrts]

Ok Following some recomendations I capped everything (Ultra-Heavy now only goes up to 25 hits) and I think that I'm done. If you have any questions please post them. Otherwise start posting the sides.

[turbler]

Alright, I'm interested in playing, but I have some questions:
1. Light units can move in Tunnels, right? So. . .what exactly is a Tunnel? (The Digger special creates Trenches, as written.)
2. On that note, what how exactly do Trenches work?
3. A unit with Move 0 can exist, yes? (It's listed as available under 'Creating Units', but not under the Siege/Infantry/Cavalry/Flyer thing. Garrison, perhaps? Also under the Creating Units section max move is 8, but below it's 5, which is correct?)
4. What's the scouting Radius? (Earlier you said it was 1d4 rolled on pop, is that still the case?)
5. What do you mean by a 1d6 Leadership bonus? (The unit in question gives a 1d6 bonus each combat, rolled each combat?)
6. If a Rider's move is still used when riding a Mount, does the Mount's move deplete as well? (Can one move carrying the other when the Rider is out of move, for example?)
7. I presume the Combat formula is to determine Hits dealt? How do we determine what units take the damage?
8. Do both stacks calculate their damage at the same time?
9. Do we get more Shmuckers/Points, and if so how? Also, do we have to pay upkeep, and if so how much?
I. . .think that's all? Sorry for all the questions.

[Fkrts]

1) Tunnels are automatically built and can be entered by any light units who are one square away. Any units in the tunnel bypass any units outside the city coming up on the hex.
2) When you create a trench I roll a d4. Any unit defending a hex with a trench in it gains the d4 roll in the micelaneous catagory.
3) Yes a unit may have 0 move. I just added that in earlier. Also the 8 is a typo and and the Siege/Infantry/Cavalry/Flyer is still in place
4) It is still a d4 rolled on popping
5) The 1d6 is rolled upon popping and never rolled again. If certain objectives are completed it is possible for commanders to gain levels but the maximum is 6
6) Yes the mount and the rider's move are depleted (This avoids a mount-hopping issue where one unit makes it across the battlefield the turn it pops
7) The combat formula does determine hit's taken. When you create a stack you decide the order that units take damage
8) Both stacks do calculate damage at the same time
9) You'll get 25 additional shmuckers per turn.

[Fkrts]

These are the units that Gobwin Knob brought along.

Oh and Nnelg I made one change to keep it with the new caps and that was to lower a dwagons combat.

Spoiler: show

Gobwin
3 Hits
1 Defense
2 Combat
2 Move
Specials: Light, Digger
13 points

Spidew
5 Hits
3 Defense
2 Combat
4 Move
Specials: Mount, Scout
26 points

Twoll
10 Hits
3 Defense
6 Combat
1 Move
Specials: Heavy
26 points

Dwagon
20 Hits
8 Defense
10 Combat
5 Move
Specials: Ultra-Heavy, Mount
64 points

Warlord
5 Hits
2 Combat
3 Defense
3 Move
Specials: Light, Commander
20 Points

[Nnelg]

Ok. But make sure I don't start out with an advantage over the other players, or else the higher level city will give me certain victory.


Hm... Maybe if I start out with fewer troops, my job will be to delay the attacker's advance until I can match their forces.

Yeah, I like that idea; it reminds me of a number of wargames set on the Eastern Front.

[Fkrts]

Yes you only get 75 smuckers per player to signup
Although instead of 25 per turn you'll get 30.

[The Colonel]

I'm in I think, what do I need to do to get in?

[Fkrts]

A name of your side and then the five unit types.

[WhirdCheese]

Ginethian Hammers

Ginethian Commander

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Hits 10
Combat 3
Defense 7
Move 3
Specials Heavy, Commander
Cost 34

Minutemen

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Hits 3
Combat 2
Defense 2
Move 3
Specials: Digger Light
Cost 15

Current Forces:
1 Ginethian Commander
4 Minutemen

[Nnelg]

He means five different types of units you can recruit, not five individual units to start with.

[The Colonel]

I shall be taking the BRITS references. ALL OF THEM!

Teavians

Captain
The very model of a modern major general, he has information vegetable, animal, and mineral.

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Hits 5
Combat 2
Defense 3
Move 3
Specials Light, Commander
Cost 20

Redcoat
Brave chaps with a stiff upper lip and a hankering for tea.

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Hits 4
Combat 2
Defense 2
Move 3
Specials Light, Digger
Cost 16

Gatling
A tea making device that happens to attack opponents in the process of making tea operated by a bunch of brave chaps

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10 Hits
3 Defense
6 Combat
1 Move
Specials: Heavy
26 points

Hussar
mounted soldiers that do not mind an extra passenger, for some tea of course.

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5 Hits
2 Defense
3 Combat
4 Move
Specials: Mount, Scout
26 points

Tank
Big and nasty metal monster that against all common sense, is able to fly, physics be dammed. Is one of the few Teavian devices where tea is an afterthought, a mere byproduct of its true purpose.

Spoiler: show

20 Hits
10 Defense
10 Combat
5 Move
Specials: Ultra-Heavy, Mount
66 points

[Fkrts]

Thanks to both of you for signing up! I'm hoping to get more intrest but I'll start on Friday no matter what. Signups will be open indefinetly though so anyone can sign up after the game has begun.