Book 2 - Page 10

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Re: Book 2 - Page 10

Postby atteSmythe » Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:43 pm

name lips wrote:Wait I just thought of something.... where the hell is the rest of Wanda's army? The decrypted strike force they used to conquer Uniroyal?

We have no information on this. None. They're not mentioned. They would have ruined the veil, of course, since the dwagons and archons were veiled as the missing infantry army.

I've been wondering the same thing, myself.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 10

Postby Lord Kasavin » Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:54 pm

Glenn wrote:I suspect she'll attack the infantry heavy force that's half a turn from the capital, and hope to gain enough reinforcements through decryption to make taking Spacerock viable in her next turn. This plan may also appeal to Wanda if, as Infidel implies, she's subconsciously reluctant to attack Faqians.


I think the whole point of Ansom's plan was to lure Jetstone forces out of the city so they could bypass it by air and take the now minimally defended city. The airforce alone, while powerful, might not be enough to take on a "massive" column of infantry and heavies. Just because Ossomer did not mention anything else, does not mean the column does not also have Warlords or fliers. Remember, Ansom can only bring his infantry against the army across the bridge, and that stack even without Ossomer is still quite formidable.

Hence, Wanda only has two options: an attack accross the bridge or an attack on the capital. I got a feeling she'll have to attack the capital and simply order a "capture" instead of croak for Jillian, whose the one person besides herself we've seen Wanda actually care about.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 10

Postby Raza » Fri Dec 04, 2009 5:07 pm

Lord Kasavin wrote:
Glenn wrote:I suspect she'll attack the infantry heavy force that's half a turn from the capital, and hope to gain enough reinforcements through decryption to make taking Spacerock viable in her next turn. This plan may also appeal to Wanda if, as Infidel implies, she's subconsciously reluctant to attack Faqians.


I think the whole point of Ansom's plan was to lure Jetstone forces out of the city so they could bypass it by air and take the now minimally defended city. The airforce alone, while powerful, might not be enough to take on a "massive" column of infantry and heavies. Just because Ossomer did not mention anything else, does not mean the column does not also have Warlords or fliers. Remember, Ansom can only bring his infantry against the army across the bridge, and that stack even without Ossomer is still quite formidable.

Hence, Wanda only has two options: an attack accross the bridge or an attack on the capital. I got a feeling she'll have to attack the capital and simply order a "capture" instead of croak for Jillian, whose the one person besides herself we've seen Wanda actually care about.

Flyers have relatively high move. They wouldn't be with the 'we which we had this in the capital half a turn earlier' column.

Still, If the archery-to-infantry rating of that column is as high as with the bridge force, they may not be not a very attractive target. Wipe-and-decrypt/uncroak self-reinforcement tactics work when you can wipe an enemy force our through trickery or major tactical advantages, as we've seen twice before.

Or maybe not. They're bound to have less leadership than the other two forces, and GB can do their 'attack at 30' bonus stacking thing. Maybe if your force averages +18 combat versus its opponents', you don't lose too much.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 10

Postby Atomic » Fri Dec 04, 2009 5:12 pm

atteSmythe wrote:
name lips wrote:Wait I just thought of something.... where the hell is the rest of Wanda's army? The decrypted strike force they used to conquer Uniroyal?

We have no information on this. None. They're not mentioned. They would have ruined the veil, of course, since the dwagons and archons were veiled as the missing infantry army.

I've been wondering the same thing, myself.

We see Wanda's Army Of Doom(tm) directly behind Wanda/Scarlet in panel two, and have a better view of it behind Wanda/Ansom/Ossomer in panel ten. I'm sure we could find a few posters who might argue it's not the entire army, but it looks pretty big to me...

The real question is, what do they plan to do with their ground force? If they attack Tramennis' hex without the Archons/Dwagons/Warlords, they wouldn't stand a snowballs chance at winning, or even taking down the juicy targets. Yet falling back would defeat the purpose of moving them forward since strip number 7 (panel 4), since they weren't there when the Shocktreatment started.

I'm getting really excited for the next strip... I guess it'll be fun to catch up with Sizmore, but I'd rather dive head-first into the action! :)
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Re: Book 2 - Page 10

Postby Rogthnor01 » Fri Dec 04, 2009 5:58 pm

Perhaps the ground army was originally supposed to force the enemy army holding the bridge to fight them instead of the airforce that captured jetstone if they couldn't capture it in one turn?
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Re: Book 2 - Page 10

Postby Casander » Fri Dec 04, 2009 6:08 pm

Markidactyl wrote:Please, please tell me that Jetstone wasn't stupid enough to use the Chief Warlord, in the leading stack, who knew the ENTIRE BATTLEPLAN be used as part of a delay force. Didn't it occur to SOMEONE that when Gobwin Knob won, they would decrypt the forces and learn everything?


I'm not even sure why Ossomor and his brother were part of this force at all, if they weren't intended to be the final defense, risking them both seems silly.

Unless I'm not getting something.


Yes, you aren't getting that until GK attacked, the Royal Coalition didn't know who the target was. Hence their need to buy time. Jillian's air units obviously had enough move to arrive first.

The issue with the Chief Warlord is that if you worry excessively about the consequences of Losing a fight involving the Chief Warlord, then you won't be able to effectively make use of him. If Ansom's reaction is any guide, the Jetstone aren't inclined to think of the likelihood of losing the Chief Warlord without losing the fight. And they didn't expect to lose the fight against what they knew of Ansom, and what they saw coming.

Plus there has Always been a bit of a Big Hammer philosophy to RCC and Jetstone strategy. Bring a big enough hammer and it won't Matter that the enemy can see it coming. And Jetstone HAS had a lot of success with the Big Hammer strategy. Witness Ossomer's diplomatic success based on a fear of a total commitment effort by Jetstone.

I am confident that Parson will adjust to the new information with new strategies and tactics, but I worry that Ansom has fallen in love with his strategy of a decapitation strike against Jetstone.

On the other hand, if GK pulls back from attacking the Capital because of Jillian, then the RCC can use her in ANY Capital fight the same way, because she is at least as mobile as GKs dragons and archons. I suspect that Parson will try to lure Jillian OUT of the Capital at some point, and either hit the capital when she is gone, or neutralize her air force, or both.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 10

Postby atteSmythe » Fri Dec 04, 2009 6:20 pm

Atomic wrote:We see Wanda's Army Of Doom(tm) directly behind Wanda/Scarlet in panel two, and have a better view of it behind Wanda/Ansom/Ossomer in panel ten. I'm sure we could find a few posters who might argue it's not the entire army, but it looks pretty big to me...

I don't think that works. The plan appears to have been to draw the enemy out into the field by making them think GK had all ground forces, then bypass the bulk of the defences and hit the capitol. However, you can't have your actual ground forces with you when you execute that plan, or they get slaughtered when you pull out your warlords and fliers.

...unless the plan was to destroy most of the forces in the field by putting Slately to the sword. Yeah, that might make more sense. Perhaps this is the Army of Doom, and the fliers were not the entire army, but just veiled to look like the rest of the army that they already accompanied.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 10

Postby HailGreen28 » Fri Dec 04, 2009 6:42 pm

atteSmythe wrote:
Atomic wrote:We see Wanda's Army Of Doom(tm) directly behind Wanda/Scarlet in panel two, and have a better view of it behind Wanda/Ansom/Ossomer in panel ten. I'm sure we could find a few posters who might argue it's not the entire army, but it looks pretty big to me...

I don't think that works. The plan appears to have been to draw the enemy out into the field by making them think GK had all ground forces, then bypass the bulk of the defences and hit the capitol. However, you can't have your actual ground forces with you when you execute that plan, or they get slaughtered when you pull out your warlords and fliers.

...unless the plan was to destroy most of the forces in the field by putting Slately to the sword. Yeah, that might make more sense. Perhaps this is the Army of Doom, and the fliers were not the entire army, but just veiled to look like the rest of the army that they already accompanied.
Thinking about it, for sure Slately has moved to a safe place.

If Ansom's plan is to survive a counterattack by auto-disbanding most of the enemy beforehand killing Slately.....

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Re: Book 2 - Page 10

Postby Angband » Fri Dec 04, 2009 6:57 pm

Roketter wrote:I think Ossomer's is "Confused" simply because he was telling everyone how Wanda happens to be a horrid monster not 10 seconds before he got decrypted and became her best friend.

It's just he didn't have time to rationalize, or anything, there was no "awakening", he was decrypted while dying, in the middle of a sentence.

I think he loves Wanda just as much as much as all the decrypted, he just hasn't had the time to actually realize it, since Wanda's first words to him were orders that had to be carried out inmediately.


Its much simpler than that.

"It was hoped we could delay you... us..."


That "us..." reveals what is confusing Ossomer. He is explaining the reasoning behind his former side's tactics, where "we" (Jetstone) was hoping to delay "you" (Gobwin Knob). But after his decryption, Ossomer sees GK as "us" and Jetstone as "them". This sets up the confusion: the post-decryption Ossomer is being asked about the pre-decryption Ossomer's tactics, but the groups that he would refer to as "we" and "you" changed in the interim.

Which is not to say he isn't also momentarily confused after decryption (as Ansom was in TBfGK1). But that's how I read his emotional state there. There's no indication that he won't be just as enthusiastic about GK as the rest of the decrypted are.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 10

Postby Gez » Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:02 pm

gameboy1234 wrote:Wanda and Jillian, neither of which want's the other croaked, regardless.

Wanda likes "going too far" in her control of Jillian. Are you sure she wouldn't croak her, now that she can decrypt her afterwards?
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Re: Book 2 - Page 10

Postby Chit Rule Railroad » Fri Dec 04, 2009 8:56 pm

theseus2x wrote:But mostly, it was just the evil, megalomanical villain didn't want to spend however many turns listening to Ansom and Ossamer go back and forth when she can just decrypt Ossomer in two seconds and get her answers that way.


I agree. The question is not so much whether allowing a conservation between Ansom and Ossomer would be sufficient to turn Ossomer (surely not) but whether it would help Ansom recognize that Ossomer would not be turned any time soon, making the croak & decrypt less damaging to GK's morale.

Guessing what GK should do now depends on several variables that GK probably knows but we don't: Where are GK's land forces? Is there another, less-defended city within one turn's distance for typical land troops? Is there one more than a turn away for land troops, but less than a turn away for typical flyers?

However, I bet that what Wanda will want to do, very badly, is decrypt Jillian.

Assuming the GK land forces are far away, the best way to take Spacerock is probably to decrypt the forces in the bridge hex after croaking them from behind with the help of what's left of the reinforcement column after their Wanda-induced civil war. ("Column" suggests they are spread over multiple hexes, which is perfect for croak & decrypt.) We know there are siege units (battle bears) in the bridge hex.

The safer course would be to take the decrypted reinforcement and/or bridge armies and put them in another city while evacuating the GK airforce back to defend GK and threaten FAQ. Jillian would not keep her airforce in Spacerock if FAQ were threatened and if Ansom and Wanda were no longer nearby. If GK can croak & decrypt both the reinforcement and bridge armies, then they can waltz over to Spacerock after Jillian leaves (unless Slately hands the treasury over to Charlie). Otherwise, if only the reinforcement army is decrypted and put in a city (perhaps, for irony, Dhrystone under Ossomer's command) then Jetstone would be able to retake that city, but would take heavy casualties.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 10

Postby Ytaker » Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:39 pm

LordDarksea wrote:
theseus2x wrote:Question : If you were a Predictamancer, wouldn't you be able to predict your own (speculated) croaking?


Maybe its like trying to lift yourself up by the scruff of your own neck???


Or just really, really depressing.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 10

Postby pSycHOtic chICkeN » Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:05 pm

Wanda was originally a caster for FAQ. When FAQ fell she became a caster working for Stanley. Now that FAQ has a queen and is back in business her loyalty should return to FAQ.

I'm not sure what that would do to the loyalty of the decrypted army.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 10

Postby Watsit Hoohow » Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:11 pm

pSycHOtic chICkeN wrote:Wanda was originally a caster for FAQ. When FAQ fell she became a caster working for Stanley. Now that FAQ has a queen and is back in business her loyalty should return to FAQ.


She actively betrayed FAQ to Stanley while she was working for it. So if she does rejoin FAQ, it won't be for that reason.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 10

Postby Graydon » Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:57 pm

Anybody else thing Ossomer and Parson are going to get along?

I have this weird image of Ossomer being assigned as Parson's body guard if Parson's sent forward to command.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 10

Postby Metis » Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:11 am

My first post, sorry its a little long.

In planning for this battle, we need to consider what was going through the minds of Jetstone. A large force of troops from GK was approaching. Apparently, ground based and designed for siege (I say apparently, because Jetstone would have had knowledge of Jack from Transylvito’s encounter with Stanley on the way to FAQ, and based on previous knowledge of Stanley and his ability to tame Dwagons, so they would have had reason to be doubtful of their observations.)

Jetstone, aware of the ability to decrypt troops, would have only one method of defense against such an ability, Massively Over Whelming Forces (“MOWF”). Smaller efforts would just provide fuel to GK’s army. Therefore, once it became clear that GK was going to attack Jetstone, King Slately, called for the forces of RCC2 to form up within Spacerock. This would ensure that Jetstone had a MOWF. However, because Jetstone needed to know where GK’s forces would strike next, the RCC2 support troops are playing catch up.

So what did Jetstone do? They decided to make a bid for a delaying tactic. With the bridge serving as a choke point, Jetstone placed the bulk of its forces within the one hex that the bridge exited into. Overloaded and stacked to the max the holding party’s had two objectives, both of equal importance, first, not to die, second, to delay GK’s forces, if ground based from reaching Spacerock. Following the end of GK’s turn the delaying force would withdraw into Spacerock, the RCC2 support troops would arrive at the city, and Spacerock would now contain a MOWF.

Not wanting to place all of their eggs in one basket (just most of them), Spacerock held its flying forces in reserve, in the event of a deception, keeping them within the city to enable them to receive support from the cities defenses in the event of an attack. But because the delaying party could not be left defenseless to a flying attack all but one of Jetstone’s casters were sent with the delaying force to bolster its strength and help protect them from fliers.

With the new information provided by Ossomer, GK is left with a number of less than satisfying options all of which must be completed in this turn or GK will face a MOWF.
1. Continue with their current plan of attacking Spacerock. Jillian’s forces, an unknown caster and a level 5 city defenses will present a significant problem to capturing the city in one turn. Failing to do that, the delaying forces and the RCC2 support troops will arrive at the city.
2. Attack the delaying force at the bridge. One max stacked hex with significant caster support. Failure to defeat these force will result in their withdrawl into the city, RCC2 arrival at the city and potentially expose them to hit and run tactics from the fliers in the city.
3. Attack the RCC2 forces. Unknown numbers, limited understanding of the makeup of the troops, leaves more questions asked than answered. Failure has the same results as failing to defeat the delaying force.

Overall it appears that Jetstone played its hand very well, and has left GK with few desirable options. So what is GK to do? The tactical answer is to withdraw. You hit an enemy where he is weakest, and the Jetstone and RCC2 forces are closing in around GK and threatening to overwhelm them. From a story aspect, and the look on Wanda’s face, they are going to attack Spacerock.

Those are my thoughts on the current battle and we have barely begun to consider what Charlie’s “other plan” is.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 10

Postby gameboy1234 » Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:14 am

Gez wrote:
gameboy1234 wrote:Wanda and Jillian, neither of which want's the other croaked, regardless.

Wanda likes "going too far" in her control of Jillian. Are you sure she wouldn't croak her, now that she can decrypt her afterwards?


About as sure as I could be. Look how Ansom felt about killing Ossomer, and Ansom's a pod-people. Yeah, I think we've just seen the first chink in Wanda's emotional armor.
"Do it?" Dan, I'm not a Republic serial villain. Do you seriously think I'd explain my master-stroke if there remained the slightest chance of you affecting its outcome?

I did it thirty-five minutes ago.

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Re: Book 2 - Page 10

Postby Lord Kasavin » Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:52 am

Graydon wrote:Anybody else thing Ossomer and Parson are going to get along?


No. So far, the only people who Parson really gets along with have a) been sent to his death in Parson's service, b) grown the hate the man's brutal approach to warfare, c) are Maggie. Unless Parson somehow discovers the benefits of being honorable, not likely.

I have this weird image of Ossomer being assigned as Parson's body guard if Parson's sent forward to command.


While I don't know about get along, I do think the two could teach each other quite a bit if forced to endure each other's company.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 10

Postby Dancing Cthulhu » Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:09 am

theseus2x wrote:Maybe Wanda wants to croak/decrypt Jillian?


I don't think she would.

Wanda has always been rather cold/practical/etc in her dealings, but she hasn't been shown as treating the decrypted better then she would treat the uncroaked - tools for her to use until they can't be used anymore.

Ansom, as a decrypted, treats the experiance like something religious almost. A conversion. Wanda doesn't have that mind set though, she thinks nothing of coldly dispatching and decrypting Oss in a way that provides the most benifit in the quickest amount of time.

Turning Jillian into a decrypted? A unit that must (it seems) serve unquestioningly and love Wanda? I can't see it appealing to her.

Lord Kasavin wrote:I think the whole point of Ansom's plan was to lure Jetstone forces out of the city so they could bypass it by air and take the now minimally defended city. The airforce alone, while powerful, might not be enough to take on a "massive" column of infantry and heavies. Just because Ossomer did not mention anything else, does not mean the column does not also have Warlords or fliers. Remember, Ansom can only bring his infantry against the army across the bridge, and that stack even without Ossomer is still quite formidable.


True. And I think any force described like that would have Warlords by the truckload (and as we know now it is Haggar forces, so Haggar's chief warlord could be in command).

Gez wrote:Wanda likes "going too far" in her control of Jillian. Are you sure she wouldn't croak her, now that she can decrypt her afterwards?


But is that too far even for Wanda? I mean a bit of thinkamancy is one thing, but turning Jillian into someone compelled to love and serve Wanda... and we don't really know what Wanda feels about decrypted (as I mentioned above) - she hasn't shown them much consideration. Charlie seems to care more about his Archons - would Wanda think a decrypted Jillian is still her Jillian?

I don't think Wanda views the whole toolism and decryption process in the same light as Ansom does.

Watsit Hoohow wrote:She actively betrayed FAQ to Stanley while she was working for it. So if she does rejoin FAQ, it won't be for that reason.


Although through loyalty contortions it could be said she didn't think Faq would end up like it did.
And so my time with the Tardy Elves draws to a close, and I am let to ponder how the experience will... eh, I'll finish later. No need to rush.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 10

Postby Steve-D » Sat Dec 05, 2009 11:43 am

A late-in-the-day observation; Scarlet killed Ossomer with his own sword. Its quite distinct in the hi-res version. Do different swords provide item bonuses?

Although we suspect Parson will take charge of the mess, he won't actually go there. We learnt from the text updates he can't fly by Dwagon, and so won't be able to use the relay system.
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