Lamech wrote:Charlie hasn't really screwed any clients over from what we've seen. He deals straight. His Archons haven't given free bonuses (magical protection), but I assume he was up front about it. He drives a hard bargain, but he hasn't seemed to try and slip stuff past people in contracts. As soon as the contract is over he will hire out to your enemy. (I think that's the main danger with Charlie in this story.)
The only time with an actual betrayal was the Jillian incident. But even that was reasonably clear that he reserved the chance to mess her up. Oh and he had the assistance of someone on the inside. (And even then the first thing he did was complete his obligations.)
MonteCristo wrote:Lamech wrote:Charlie hasn't really screwed any clients over from what we've seen. He deals straight. His Archons haven't given free bonuses (magical protection), but I assume he was up front about it. He drives a hard bargain, but he hasn't seemed to try and slip stuff past people in contracts. As soon as the contract is over he will hire out to your enemy. (I think that's the main danger with Charlie in this story.)
There's also the time he screwed over Spacerock when he was supposed to back up Transvito to take on Stanely. Ansom had a plan for Charlie to join Tansvito to take on Stanely on his way to Faq, but Charlie was tempted by Parson's offer and thus found a loop hole out of the agreement (namely increase the cost of his services so Transilvito would not hire him)... And then when Ansom was on the wall, he again change his "prices" taking advantage of Ansom's desperation. Yes, nothing illegal about what he was doing, but its the kind of wheeling and dealing that would make space rock second guess ever trusting him. He's taking advantage of his clients; not exactly what I call playing straight with them.
Taikei no Yuurei wrote:He didn't do anything wrong with Jillian. The contract included that she would forget everything about her encounter with Charlie, it's the entire reason he even did anything at all for Jillian.
The thing with Charlie seems to be that when you have a contract with him, you can expect him to do exactly what the contract stipulates. We have never once seen any indication that he has even slightly tried to screw someone over or loophole someone that he has a contract with.
“And that’s ironclad, right?” asked Jillian. “He’s forced to destroy everything he’s got for Flower Power? Stockpiles, facilities, recipes, whatever?”
Brother Labeler blinked and nodded slowly. “Of that, I am confident, Princess. But this is the section I’m concerned with,” he said. He had meticulously transcribed the revised Deal of a Lifetime contract for her, in his exacting and beautiful hand. “Special to your contract. Please read that carefully.”
Section VII - Experimental Thinkamancy/Healomancy Procedure
Part 1 - Contractor’s Responsibility - Contractor will apply proprietary magicks (Arkendish) to link with Healomancer and fashion such spells and procedures to Client as are necessary to substantially diminish or eliminate Client’s dependency on Flower Power. Should the first attempt fail to achieve these aims, Contractor will make up to three (3) additional attempts, utilizing Healomancer(s) provided by Client or at Client’s own expense. Contractor will, to the best of his ability and in good faith, attempt to cure Client and minimize lingering symptoms.
Part 2 - Client’s Responsibility. Client will present herself in a timely manner within ten turns of Turn of Effect, and cooperate with Contractor and Healomancer. Client will submit to treatment involving Healomancy and Thinkamancy with the understanding that these are unproven and largely undocumented procedures, with unknown risks, including (but not limited to) Life, Signamancy, identity, sanity, and basic functioning of client as a unit and a Warlord. Client expressly grants permission to Contractor and Healomancer to apply changes as needed to the functioning of Client’s mind, at Contractor and Healomancer’s sole discretion.
“And that’s [the contract] ironclad, right?” asked Jillian.
Casters wore no armor, but the iron of a contract with Charlescomm suddenly felt solid upon his chest.
Digdoug smiled, and unbound another spell.
That would be very strange. All that Charlie needs is a loophole big enough to allow him to erase her memory, so why would he go to the trouble of advertising what he intends to do to Jillian in a place where she might read about it? If Jillian found out his plan, she would never have agreed to it, and even if she didn't read the entire contract herself there's a good chance that Labeler would draw her attention to the memory-erasing bit. The only way Charlie could hope to erase Jillian's memory was by taking her by surprise, otherwise Jillian would have insisted that the contract be modified to forbid it, or even just endured her addiction.Taikei no Yuurei wrote:I'd honestly be surprised if it didn't include that she was going to get her memories erased, as opposed to simply locked down like the others.
It's actually never made exactly clear what was done to Jillian, but I seriously doubt that Betsy would have erased Jillian's memory, at least not intentionally. It seems clear that Betsy had only two objectives: remove Jillian's addiction and remove Jillian's aggression. I'm sure that Betsy felt that she was actually helping Jillian by doing that, so Betsy wouldn't do anything obviously harmful like destroying memories. Betsy couldn't even understand how aggression could be connected to conscience, since in Betsy's mind aggression and conscience are naturally at war with each other and Betsy was trying to help Jillian's conscience win that war.Lipkin wrote:Don't forget that Charlie's motive was destroying the Jester, not erasing her memory. That was Betsy's doing.
Lemech wrote:Neither of those are treachery. Their contract with Charlie was over. Why would Charlie not deal with GK. He is a merc. Parson purchased Charlie not killing Stanley. They're lucky Stanley didn't hire them to wipe the coalition.
And raising prices? Yeah, that's what happens when you are in a tight spot. Especially when you refuse the contract before hand. If you try to get away with not needing them, the merc need to raise prices. That's what happens when you make them take the risk of being unneeded.
Lipkin wrote:Don't forget that Charlie's motive was destroying the Jester, not erasing her memory. That was Betsy's doing.
MonteCristo wrote:Let me ask you; knowing what you know about Charlie, would you EVER consider hiring him? Are you fine with the fact that he will abide by the strict wording of the contract? Or are you too worried that he might find a loophole and screw you over to even want to risk hiring charlie?
Denar wrote:Wanda had a treatment without needing to lose her memories as well, so it can't be this.
“Much simpler than the Croakamancer,” said a million insects at once.
wih wrote:And it seems too convenient that both Wanda and Jillian had personality changes for the worse post-Book0/P2, after these procedures.
twhitt wrote:Hmm. Prediction.
Denar wrote:Yeah it looks like Charlie's gonna be good to his word, at least for the short term of this battle. Definitely feel now that Creen is the antagonist, especially after all that vitriol. We've still got the plot devices of the Pit-Scroll and Dove-in-the-Hole hovering over it, though.
Squishalot wrote:I disagree. Peck is a Warlord who's been promoted up from the rank and file it appears (and has less experience at being a CW), whereas Creen is a Prince who is far more likely to have encountered Charlescomm in the past (which is grounds for suggesting that Charlescomm is not a mercenary force that hires out in the region, since Delkey would have run into them in the past). I think it'd be reasonable to say that if Creen didn't recognise Charlescomm's livery, there's no reason why Peck should have recognised it, warranting suspicion. Reading the update, Creen looked fairly sus, as he kept looking up into the sky when Peck brushed his question aside.
jeffseadot wrote:We don't seem to know a whole lot about the details of the contract, but the bits and pieces we've seen indicate that Posbrake's main concern is over units. And there's a provision about Charlie not conquering the city. But what do we know about damaging the city? What if the archons, using the pretext of putting on a convincing show, absolutely *ruin* the place down to a level 1? I haven't seen any reason to believe *that's* forbidden by the contract.
MonteCristo wrote:Ya i'm thinking that Charlie was just one big red herring. Honestly with how much bad stuff Charlie has been up too people could not stop guessing how charlie was gonna double cross Homekey and screw them all over. The fact that we knew so many terrible things about Charlie created half the tension in this story arc, but no, red herring, Charlie was playing it straight the whole time. Playing straight is how charlie does business under normal circumstances; that's how charlie manages to develop a good reputation as a merc; if screwing clients over was how he did businesses then he would probably be out of business by now. If did screw clients over normally (making trouble to make business) then it would be the kind of trouble his clients wouldn't know about; He'll screw you over to his advantage, but you usually won't realize he did it, something like breaking contract is too blatantly obvious... its only when he finds reason to get personally invested that he starts pulling dirty tricks.
But I doubt that means this is over... It still seems very possible that Prince Creen will end up causing a mess for Homekey.
wih wrote:Denar wrote:Wanda had a treatment without needing to lose her memories as well, so it can't be this.
Don't be so sure, we don't know what happened in there. We do know that after Wanda's treatment she became...well, more psychopathic. We also know this:
Mrtyuh wrote:Well, Creen is armed with a sword. That isn't a ranged weapon.
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