Digdoug - Episode 9

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Re: Digdoug - Episode 9

Postby Grand Diplomat » Tue Mar 11, 2014 6:37 pm

Well I like that your theory is pretty much fully thought out but I seem to remember Wanda saying in book 2 that we each have a fate and that there are many ways to that fate basically giving us a choice which would mean that the Titans of Ark don't have everything decided before hand.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 9

Postby Lilwik » Tue Mar 11, 2014 6:56 pm

Grand Diplomat wrote:Well I like that your theory is pretty much fully thought out but I seem to remember Wanda saying in book 2 that we each have a fate and that there are many ways to that fate basically giving us a choice which would mean that the Titans of Ark don't have everything decided before hand.
Wanda is a terrible source to use for that. We have no reason to believe that she understands Fate any better now than she did at the beginning of Book 0 where she obviously didn't understand it at all. Delphie is an actual Predictamancer, and she says much the same thing in B0E24.

Even so, it doesn't really prove theory 3. The single-story written in advance of theory 1 is a deterministic view of Erfworld, but compatibilism is a philosophy that allows determinism and freewill to co-exist, which means that theory 1 and theory 3 are the same. There is only one actual course of events, which is the only way that things could ever happen from the perspective of the Titans, but people still make choices because no person has the perspective of the Titans. Maybe all Predictamancers are compatibilists.

Even so, I think the existence of Luckamancy is strong evidence that theory 3 is the correct theory. Why would the Titans create Luckamancy if they see Erfworld as merely a single possible path through all of history?
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 9

Postby GWvsJohn » Tue Mar 11, 2014 6:58 pm

Grand Diplomat wrote:Well I like that your theory is pretty much fully thought out but I seem to remember Wanda saying in book 2 that we each have a fate and that there are many ways to that fate basically giving us a choice which would mean that the Titans of Ark don't have everything decided before hand.


I'm not saying the Titans decide everything. I'm saying they already know what will ever happen and they know how every player will react to any situation. The player is free to choose his reaction; the Titans just know how they will react.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 9

Postby No one in particular » Tue Mar 11, 2014 7:36 pm

Just thought I'd toss this out there...

Delphie Temple in IPTSF 24 wrote: Not everyone walking these halls has a purpose. I cannot make Predictions about every unit, or commander, or even every ruler.
[...]
Fate doesn't care about us. That's the terror of it; we have no Fate. The world doesn't care if we live or not. Only about you.
"Are you always so pessimistic?"
"Not at all. I saved it for my last battle."
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 9

Postby Grand Diplomat » Tue Mar 11, 2014 7:41 pm

Interesting. Since the Titans of Ark know all (probably through a form of Super Predictamancy or Datemancy), they know how people will react to what Fate they put on them so they know what to show and tell the Predictamancer to get the person to follow their plan. Of course I see this has evidence towards the third theory has the Titan's of Ark (if they're any thing like me) would want to see what their creations do with the fate they have set and would only intervene when completely necessary to keep their story on track. Plus what No one said also supports the 3rd theory.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 9

Postby 0beron » Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:10 pm

Personally I don't think the words of any unit will be able to tell us how the future/Fate works. I might grudgingly accept the word of a MASTER Predictamancer, not Delphi though. I'd only really be satisfied if there was a link between a Predictamancer, Thinkamancer obvi, and a Lookamancer or Carny, not sure which. If all 3 were Masters, then we might have a good enough insight into the path of the future. Barring that though, it'd be up to Rob to outright tell us, either from outside the story or with a narrative in the style of that intro to Book 0.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 9

Postby Grand Diplomat » Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:16 pm

Well Jack, you've done it again. You've tipped the Pyramid on it's point. http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/ ... -04-25.png
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 9

Postby Godzfirefly » Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:31 pm

GWvsJohn wrote:I'm not saying the Titans decide everything. I'm saying they already know what will ever happen and they know how every player will react to any situation. The player is free to choose his reaction; the Titans just know how they will react.



Then, why do the Titans need Retconjuration? :|
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 9

Postby 0beron » Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:37 pm

Grand Diplomat wrote:Well Jack, you've done it again. You've tipped the Pyramid on it's point. http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/ ... -04-25.png
*bows* I assume this was referring to my input? Because I read that update just to be sure, and I didn't see anything Fate-related in it haha.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 9

Postby Grand Diplomat » Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:40 pm

Yes. He He I was referring to you because who can debate around that?
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 9

Postby 0beron » Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:43 pm

Oh we can still propose and consider theories. I have my own favorite, because it's in line with what we see Predictamancy do, and others may have their favorites which they can see merit in. I was merely pointing out that it would take a Tri-link, Rob's word, or a special "non-unit perspective" to really confirm our theories.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 9

Postby Grand Diplomat » Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:49 pm

Well of course we can still put out theories. Of course has we can only argue merit I would only like to hear what every one thinks Posbrake's options are.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 9

Postby Grand Diplomat » Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:21 pm

Posbrake could have Digdoug remain in the capital constantly beafing up the tower and with some Dove spelling it to up so that when the attack does happen they can wipe out all the attackers (after all a major attack doesn't have to actually harm you right it just has to have the chance to harm you).
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 9

Postby Lilwik » Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:44 pm

Grand Diplomat wrote:Posbrake could have Digdoug remain in the capital constantly beafing up the tower and with some Dove spelling it to up so that when the attack does happen they can wipe out all the attackers (after all a major attack doesn't have to actually harm you right it just has to have the chance to harm you).
I'm still wondering why Posbrake is so sure that he won't be able to defend the city. Instead of hiring a Carnymancer he could have hired a Shockmancer. Maybe he could even hire a Shockmancer and a Thinkamancer and do a Shockmancy-Thinkamancy-Dirtamancy link to do a super upgrade for tower defenses. He wouldn't have needed to hide that expense from Delkey.

I guess that Homekey is short on shmuckers. Maybe they couldn't afford a high level Thinkamancer. But they could probably get it done on credit for rands. They just need to set up a contract to give Digdoug a rand debt in the Magic Kingdom to the necessary casters. Even if Homekey were to be destroyed, Digdoug would survive in the Magic Kingdom to pay off the debt.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 9

Postby Godzfirefly » Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:54 pm

Grand Diplomat wrote:Posbrake could have Digdoug remain in the capital constantly beafing up the tower and with some Dove spelling it to up so that when the attack does happen they can wipe out all the attackers (after all a major attack doesn't have to actually harm you right it just has to have the chance to harm you).

The trouble with that thought is that if the King thought that spelling up the tower would be enough to ward off a major attack, he'd probably have just hired a Shockamancer. I would imagine that the ruler has at least a general idea of what a major air attack means and knows that even if he hires casters to enhance his tower it is unlikely to be enough to support their non-existent air defenses against an air attack.

I'd imagine that a side that specializes in flying units might be a major threat to a side with limited flying and archery units, even with a caster or two spending all their time on enhancing the tower.

As for Lilwik's comment about hiring a Thinkamancer to make a link, I'm pretty sure you'd have a hard time talking a barbarian caster into linking for just money, given the major dangers involved in such an endeavor. And, even if they could talk casters into it, the sudden change in defensive strategy would definitely cause questions from Delkey whose only true answer is the very Predictamancer that they're hiding from Delkey.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 9

Postby Grand Diplomat » Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:23 pm

Well instead Dig Doug could build more traps in the city, like pit traps to keep attackers out. After all in order to take the Garryson you have to take the courtyard so you play it like Goodminton would have just throw in some traps.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 9

Postby Godzfirefly » Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:24 pm

Grand Diplomat wrote:Well instead Dig Doug could build more traps in the city, like pit traps to keep attackers out. After all in order to take the Garryson you have to take the courtyard so you play it like Goodminton would have just throw in some traps.


And maybe so. But then, it is definitely a judgement call, and Goodminton didn't fare too well with the strategy you suggest even with two casters in the city to pour juice into the Tower. Perhaps Posbrake preferred taking the riskier but potentially more effective route.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 9

Postby Grand Diplomat » Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:43 pm

The thing is we don't know that the plan failed. What we do know is that Goodminton fell from a surprise attack. What we do know is that with all the Spelling up the tower succeeded when Frenemy and the other side came.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 9

Postby Godzfirefly » Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:48 pm

Grand Diplomat wrote:The thing is we don't know that the plan failed. What we do know is that Goodminton fell from a surprise attack. What we do know is that with all the Spelling up the tower succeeded when Frenemy and the other side came.


And, I won't deny it. But, maybe there's a reason we don't know that prevents that from working effectively here? (Like the Horizontal rather than Vertical strategy leaving the capital weaker than it might otherwise be.) Or, maybe Posbrake just isn't thinking that way? Or, like I said before, maybe Posbrake is making a judgement call to say he isn't willing to risk his capital on a direct conflict like that.

In Posbrake's place, I might make the same decision. Or, maybe I wouldn't...I don't know.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 9

Postby Lamech » Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:47 am

Godzfirefly wrote:And maybe so. But then, it is definitely a judgement call, and Goodminton didn't fare too well with the strategy you suggest even with two casters in the city to pour juice into the Tower. Perhaps Posbrake preferred taking the riskier but potentially more effective route.

Its also possible shockamancers are simply in high demand. I mean, who doesn't want an array of shockamancy traps in their capital city, their best units equipped with shock cannons? Their siege units replaced by wall busting shock missiles? Their archers equipped with shocking bows? Their very own shock and awe bonus? This person is working for 2.5k plus upkeep. For comparison a dirtamancy scroll cost 18k IIRC. Yeah, sure maybe another dirtamancer or shockamancer or whatever would be better, but guess which one works for a reasonable price? You could get half-a-dozen carnies for half-a-dozen turns for the price of a dirtamancy scroll.

Oh and this is from last episode, but notice the remark about the trees? I'm totally saying this is representative of the wide and tall strat of Homekey. Which I totally called.
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