Epilogue 08 - Parson and Wanda Dissect the Battle

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Re: Epilogue 08 - Parson and Wanda Dissect the Battle

Postby Shai_hulud » Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:34 am

Not Me wrote:What if what we still need to learn from Book 0 is that Charlie not only got an NDA from FAQ but also got some kind of "agreement" so that those units had to always rationalize at avoiding any direct engagement against Charlescomm (at least from that dangerous Croakamancer so maybe Jack is not aware of it)? And only when Wanda was "really messed up" and GK against the wall during Book 1 was she able to kind of "break" that and fire the tower defenses against the Archons.
Would be interesting to see how Parson fights against Charlie if this is the case.

Or maybe Charlie is actually Jillian?
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Re: Epilogue 08 - Parson and Wanda Dissect the Battle

Postby Clementx » Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:17 pm

Ossomer turned and was dusted quite rapidly. Chief Warlords and Rulers only have a vague Thinkamancy sense of their units in other hexes, so its quite possible Parson didn't notice, as he was in the middle of arguments at the time. The real question is: how did Wanda immediately know? Either being a Croakamancer or wielding the Arkenpliers gives her a closer connection to her Uncroaked/Decrypted, or she was actively monitoring the status of her units.
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Re: Epilogue 08 - Parson and Wanda Dissect the Battle

Postby fehler » Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:47 pm

Interesting how the two stories are intersecting. Jack and Wanda were sworn to secrecy for as long as they lived, and somehow that's powerful enough to last through duty, direct orders, and changes in side and loyalty. And explains exactly what Wanda meant when she asked Jack "Can you speak?".

Til death did he stay silent, heh heh.

Now I'm interested in the other story, to learn what Wanda, Jack, and Marie (and any other FAQ Caster) has to keep shut up about, and why. Seems odd, now that Olive is croaked (and uncroaked), for some major secret to be revealed. I thought that sidebar was just wrapping up.
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Re: Epilogue 08 - Parson and Wanda Dissect the Battle

Postby Lilwik » Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:21 pm

fehler wrote:Now I'm interested in the other story, to learn what Wanda, Jack, and Marie (and any other FAQ Caster) has to keep shut up about, and why. Seems odd, now that Olive is croaked (and uncroaked), for some major secret to be revealed.
Unfortunately, we're probably not going to learn that in Book 0. Jack never did; he had no idea why Charlie forced a NDA on them. On the contrary, he was "impressed" by how much Charlie paid just to keep "small secrets." Since Olive croaked we probably won't be learning any more secrets, and Charlie isn't going to tell them which of the things they learned are the important things, so we're going to have to stay in the dark about that for an indefinite amount of time. It could even be that none of the secrets that Jack knows are important, and Charlie just forced the NDA on them because of what Olive knew and might have told. I hope that's not it.
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Re: Epilogue 08 - Parson and Wanda Dissect the Battle

Postby fehler » Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:13 pm

Forced? Or the NDA is the price FAQ pays to Charlescom for assistance in returning to being a hidden, 3-city bubble kingdom.
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Re: Epilogue 08 - Parson and Wanda Dissect the Battle

Postby BakaGrappler » Fri Sep 06, 2013 5:57 am

All I know, is that with a face like that, I really wanna give Wanda a hug and tell her everything is gonna be alright.


I guess it's only now that Wanda is saying to herself, "What the heck have I been doing? I've been treating them like Uncroaked, not like people..."
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Re: Epilogue 08 - Parson and Wanda Dissect the Battle

Postby GrandReaper » Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:37 am

BakaGrappler wrote:All I know, is that with a face like that, I really wanna give Wanda a hug and tell her everything is gonna be alright.

I guess it's only now that Wanda is saying to herself, "What the heck have I been doing? I've been treating them like Uncroaked, not like people..."



I would disagree. Wanda has major control issues and takes anyone crossing her/betraying her extremely personally. She is also her own harshest critic, meaning she beats herself up inside for any failure.

Now we seeing her come to terms with the fact that (a) even her beloved decrypted who are totally, mindlessly loyal can still turn on her and (b) it's her own fault - once again her lack of understanding of things has brought harm to herself and her side. Personally I think it's mostly (b) and somewhat (a) responsible for the face.

She still totally needs the hug though.
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Re: Epilogue 08 - Parson and Wanda Dissect the Battle

Postby Zeku » Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:39 pm

There is no discrepancy at all.

Parson simply mentally noted that Decrypted can turn while the chaos was happening in the Magic Kingdom.

This is the first time he realized how bad that is.

It's like a distracted person saying that 'hey that's on fire over there,' and then a few seconds later they say 'HEY THATS ON FIRE'

It probably was a slight oversight, the sentence doesn't really need to be changed.
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Re: Epilogue 08 - Parson and Wanda Dissect the Battle

Postby Tonot » Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:16 pm

Their culture is almost infinitely more war-like and militant that 18th century Britain, or modern USA. Some people like Janis and Sizemore are ,( by their building, nurturing disciplines ), slightly pacifistic, but the vast majority are killers. They couldn't really be called murderers, because their entire purpose, from the instant of popping, is killing opponents, it isn't murder when it is the very purpose of your society and world. Wanda's discipline revels in the leavings of battle, and forges more killers from it. Success for her is making killing units, then using them.

She isn't feeling "sorry" for the dead she has cast on. She would instantly and without compunction kill anyone she met, for a momentary advantage and by their cultural assumptions she wouldn't merely be right, she would be exalted for it.

Their culture isn't ours. Neither are their morals. Wanda isn't feeling "humane" feelings for anyone.
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Re: Epilogue 08 - Parson and Wanda Dissect the Battle

Postby Shai_hulud » Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:45 pm

Then Why does she make gravestones for the dead? And why do people hate Naughtymancers so much if their actions are really "exalted" as you say?
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Re: Epilogue 08 - Parson and Wanda Dissect the Battle

Postby Oberon » Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:55 pm

Shai_hulud wrote:
davidj wrote:Wanda seems awfully down. Maybe she knows they'll have to go against Charlie, and she doesn't like it?

Yeah, I suspect she doesn't want to croak Charlie, at least permanently, since she both has been telling the Archons she is fated to be on the same side as Charlie, and told Jillian she would never attack Charlescomm.
Saying that Charlescomm is the last side she would ever attack is not quite the same as saying she would never attack Charlescomm.

MonteCristo wrote:Ansom was a strategist, not just one for brute force and he was in charge for the most part up until this last turn; and Wanda used her influence over him to allow Parson to have an indirect say in matters.
She did, but only by asking Parson for advice. And the one time Parson said "that's not a good plan" Ansom (more likely Wanda) carried it out anyway, and they still won. Which should leave both Ansom and Wanda with the impression that Parson isn't the genius he is made out to be. Of course, they may have lost a good amount of troops that they wouldn't have otherwise, but there was nothing said about the result other than that it was successful despite Parson saying that it wasn't a good plan.

Sieggy wrote:Wait a minute . . . Ansom is in Jillian's hands, not Charlie's. If he's going to turn at all, he's going to turn back to her.
That's a bit up for debate, seeing as the turnamancer Jillian would use to turn Ansom may be under hire from Charlie and not Jillian, and said turnamancer has also been linked with Charlie (during Kingworld *ptui!*), with whatever residual effects that may have.

Squall83 wrote:My bet is that Wanda now must learn the value of life. As long as she treats her subjects like normal undead puppets without respecting their personality, they might turn away from her.
But, isn't that the same way that every ruler in Erfworld treats their units? And isn't that the same way that rulers in Stupidworld treat their subjects? Why should Wanda need to learn a lesson that no other ruler has learned?
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Re: Epilogue 08 - Parson and Wanda Dissect the Battle

Postby Shai_hulud » Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:27 pm

Cuz she's a cute sad evil goth girl, and they wants an excuse to give her hugs's?
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Re: Epilogue 08 - Parson and Wanda Dissect the Battle

Postby Lilwik » Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:11 pm

Oberon wrote:That's a bit up for debate, seeing as the turnamancer Jillian would use to turn Ansom may be under hire from Charlie and not Jillian, and said turnamancer has also been linked with Charlie (during Kingworld *ptui!*), with whatever residual effects that may have.
That's a good point. Charlie doesn't want a warlord, so there'd be no point in making Ansom officially a unit of Charlescomm, especially since Jillian would still have Ansom as a prisoner, but if the Turnamancer were to make Ansom want to turn to Charlescomm, then Charlie could probably access all of Ansom's secrets through Thinkagram as soon as Jillian turns her back on Ansom. All Charlie wants is Ansom's cooperation for a few minutes, then Jillian can have him.
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Re: Epilogue 08 - Parson and Wanda Dissect the Battle

Postby Mikalyaran » Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:18 pm

Tonot wrote:Their culture is almost infinitely more war-like and militant that 18th century Britain, or modern USA. Some people like Janis and Sizemore are ,( by their building, nurturing disciplines ), slightly pacifistic, but the vast majority are killers. They couldn't really be called murderers, because their entire purpose, from the instant of popping, is killing opponents, it isn't murder when it is the very purpose of your society and world. Wanda's discipline revels in the leavings of battle, and forges more killers from it. Success for her is making killing units, then using them.

She isn't feeling "sorry" for the dead she has cast on. She would instantly and without compunction kill anyone she met, for a momentary advantage and by their cultural assumptions she wouldn't merely be right, she would be exalted for it.

Their culture isn't ours. Neither are their morals. Wanda isn't feeling "humane" feelings for anyone.


I agree that their culture isn't our and the idea of someone being a "killer" in this world having any meaning is absolutely silly. But I think their is a light to that which you may not have considered. What in our culture and society would be regarded as murder is in Erfworld a natural cause of death. In fact it is the only cause of death in Erfworld that we are aware of. But none of that means Wanda deserve exultation for either her Croakamancy or her ruthlessness. This is clearly shown by people reactions to her. Erflings have the Holy Word of the Titans to look on. Some sides hold to that others don't. Different sides have different values. I'm sure their are a few sides that would absolutely love nothing more than to have a Master class Croakamancer. But I'd be amazed to see one pop in Jetstone and last very long before being traded away at best and sent off to die at worst.
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Re: Epilogue 08 - Parson and Wanda Dissect the Battle

Postby Tonot » Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:16 pm

Shai_hulud wrote:Then Why does she make gravestones for the dead?


Well, we also saw her lay with a dead corpse. We saw her bring a re-cycled corpse into her tent for a creepy party. We have seen her in exhilaration at getting her hands on a tool that allows her stronger re-cycling powers.
Maybe the gravestones are not any more than another strange result of her casting discipline?. Done for some strengthening of her casting, and not for "remembrance" at all?. If commemorating the people she sets out to have killed merely so she can cast on them, and use them to kill more people she can cast on, is an act of humanity, wouldn't it just make more sense to not kill so many?. Be more humane, wouldn't it?.

Shai_hulud wrote:And why do people hate Naughtymancers so much if their actions are really "exalted" as you say?

I guess I didn't make myself clear there. Exalted as in "raised up",
Adjective, "raised or elevated, as in rank or character; of high station: an exalted personage".

Don't matter what people think of her if she levels.
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Re: Epilogue 08 - Parson and Wanda Dissect the Battle

Postby Shai_hulud » Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:38 am

What? Are you reading the same story I am? Also what does leveling have to do with culture?
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Re: Epilogue 08 - Parson and Wanda Dissect the Battle

Postby Oberon » Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:17 am

Shai_hulud wrote:Also what does leveling have to do with culture?
On Erfworld? Quite a bit. Note that a high level caster (Olive) enabled the entire culture of Haffaton, a side which was vast and powerful but hollow on the inside. Another high level caster, Charlie, is responsible for the vastly different culture which is CharlesComm, a side which does not seek to expand at all in contradiction to all other Erfworld sides. A pair of high level casters enabled the survival of the 'pocket kingdom' of FAQ, (note the utter disbelief of Vinny when this is described to him), which differed vastly in culture from all other Erfworld sides. And other high level casters created a scroll to summon Parson, in the hopes that he would change the culture of war which is intrinsic to Erfworld.

Really, the entire story is about how high level casters can create different cultures than is the norm in Erfworld.
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Re: Epilogue 08 - Parson and Wanda Dissect the Battle

Postby Shai_hulud » Sat Sep 07, 2013 11:51 am

No, I'm responding to Tonot's two posts above, which said she would be exalted by their culture, then said he meant level. So I didn't really understand that part of his statement.
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Re: Epilogue 08 - Parson and Wanda Dissect the Battle

Postby Erk » Sat Sep 07, 2013 8:19 pm

Tonot wrote:Their culture is almost infinitely more war-like and militant that 18th century Britain, or modern USA. Some people like Janis and Sizemore are ,( by their building, nurturing disciplines ), slightly pacifistic, but the vast majority are killers. They couldn't really be called murderers, because their entire purpose, from the instant of popping, is killing opponents, it isn't murder when it is the very purpose of your society and world. Wanda's discipline revels in the leavings of battle, and forges more killers from it. Success for her is making killing units, then using them.

She isn't feeling "sorry" for the dead she has cast on. She would instantly and without compunction kill anyone she met, for a momentary advantage and by their cultural assumptions she wouldn't merely be right, she would be exalted for it.

Their culture isn't ours. Neither are their morals. Wanda isn't feeling "humane" feelings for anyone.

Their culture is not homogeneous. Your statement doesn't make a lot of sense, given that kingdoms like Faq and Haffaton have demonstrated cultures widely discrepant from the Erfworld norm; it's even further complicated by the fact that Wanda has been a member of both of those cultures. Yes, Erfworld is a warlike place, but I don't think its culture is entirely shaped by its warlike nature.
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Re: Epilogue 08 - Parson and Wanda Dissect the Battle

Postby Tonot » Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:27 pm

Shai_hulud wrote:What? Are you reading the same story I am? Also what does leveling have to do with culture?

When someone says "What?" to me, I am usually compelled to assume they are really slow, and make a long elaborate explanation consisting of very short words of extreme simplicity.

However, I am spared that in your case because I actually know you are not stupid.

So, I guess the "What?" in response to my politely worded post of my own opinion on something, a post that was made in answer to someone's question to me, was passive aggression?.

You will hurt my feelings you know.

One of the (circle symbol)berons answered the question perfectly for me, about levelling and its effect on culture on Erf. Wanda does stuff, some of it looks like stuff only a creepy ghoul on Earth would do, some of it looks like Remeberence or even Regret, ALL of it is for entirely different reasons, imho.
She does this because she is a Caster in the Magic Culture of Erfworld. Having success in her place in the culture means she is exalted, both in level and respect others are forced to give her.
That is what.

Erk wrote:Their culture is not homogeneous.

Didn't say it was. Neither is ours, you will notice. And an Engineer here goes quite successfully from the culture of his bowling team, to the culture of his workplace, to the culture of the high school where he gives lessons in a night-shop class. Wanda does stuff in her casting which looks like compassion maybe, or ghoulish behaviour, etc etc, if we make the mistake of thinking she is a human in a human culture.

She ONLY does this stuff because of her casting discipline.

Just like Sizemore is not a coprophile, or a ditch digger, or a jewel miner. He does do stuff that looks like all that though, in the course of his MAGIC DISCIPLINE.
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