Book 2 – Epilogue 07 – Jack in Black

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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 07 – Jack in Black

Postby Dystopianman » Sat Aug 31, 2013 10:07 pm

If memory serves, the wizard of oz was originally from Omaha, Nebraska
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 07 – Jack in Black

Postby Tonot » Sat Aug 31, 2013 10:16 pm

Sir Shadow wrote:
0beron wrote:So yes I totally agree that Parson's knowledge of the story won't help him find the shoes, but for a different reason.
Not necessarily. Though it took her longer, Judy DID use the shoes to return home. I think it's a rather safe assumption to claim that the shoes were left behind, just like Dorothy's.




I guess the Tools stay in Erf-world as an aspect of their power?. It is implied that the Titans were using them to build Erf, and left them, I can't remember if the person telling the tale thought they had been left deliberately or not, but that wouldn't matter anyway, as it would be "religious" dogma i.e. speculation by Erf-worlders.

I had been working on the idea that the Tools were just accidentally powerful, something to do with their building function in the root-code as it were.

We don't know enough about even Parsons "Earth" to know if it was a) our world, b) Dorothy Gale's "Earth" i.e. fictional, or c) a third, fictional "earth" or d) somewhere that both our earth and Dorothy's earth are "fictional" to, in their perspective.
( I mean, I know it is fictional, but I mean what it is supposed to be, what Parson considers it to be in effect. It is confusing.
Maybe Dorothy could not actually return anywhere, because she was summoned "from a fictional world", kind of like making a cloth golem and programming it thoroughly to consider itself the story-book character. There would be no-where for her to return to, the programme would just erase.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 07 – Jack in Black

Postby Oberon » Sat Aug 31, 2013 10:58 pm

Tathar wrote:It's a good thing we have text updates still, since the video is constantly buffering. I can't get 2 seconds of video before it pauses to buffer.

Also nice to see Book 0 tie into the main story now.
Click the video to start it, then immediately pause (you can see the pause button if you mouse hover over the video). Wait until it loads up a bit,maybe 5 minutes or so, and then you can play it without that issue.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 07 – Jack in Black

Postby niklinna » Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:57 am

I'm a bit surprised we've gotten 5 pages into this thread and nobody's remarked on Parson's words *after* those few words in the Eyebook from Charlie, as he ran into the portal:

"There's no place like home..."

:)
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 07 – Jack in Black

Postby YesNinja » Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:03 am

niklinna wrote:I'm a bit surprised we've gotten 5 pages into this thread and nobody's remarked on Parson's words *after* those few words in the Eyebook from Charlie, as he ran into the portal:

"There's no place like home..."

:)




Which brings up another point that I had almost forgotten about! Any ideas what the rest of his "go home" spell was? Roses are....?


"Roses are red, violets are blue, I wanna go home, get me the boop outta here"? :P
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 07 – Jack in Black

Postby wih » Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:29 am

For a while there was a thing with using the last words of TBfGK150...
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 07 – Jack in Black

Postby BakaGrappler » Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:28 am

Folks are saying that Judy couldn't be from Earth, or that she came here before the writing of the books. But here is something all of you forgot.

http://www.erfworld.com/2013/02/inner-p ... isode-062/

As she's leaving, she says " I’ve had enough of this rainbow boop."

As in "over the rainbow." Now, I'm not certain, but I think the term Over the Rainbow was introduced by the song in the movie. I never read the books. But anyway, that would suggest that Judy is at least familiar with the movies, which are Earth and falls within the latter half of the 20th century. And lets say Judy spent 40 years in Erfworld. She reappears on Earth and what is she gonna tell people? "I've been in frikkin' Oz for the past few dacades"? There is no way she'd tell anyone what had happened.

What this says to me, is that the best Warlords Erf can obtain are the ones who know how to break the rules, because they know what reality is like without those limitations. The best warlords are the ones that come from Earth, and can understand the underlying signamancy, references, and twists of humor in Erfworld. Because Erf Warlords are popped knowing ALL the rules, they can't understand the concept of breaking them.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 07 – Jack in Black

Postby Lipkin » Sun Sep 01, 2013 6:11 am

BakaGrappler wrote:Folks are saying that Judy couldn't be from Earth, or that she came here before the writing of the books. But here is something all of you forgot.

http://www.erfworld.com/2013/02/inner-p ... isode-062/

As she's leaving, she says " I’ve had enough of this rainbow boop."

As in "over the rainbow." Now, I'm not certain, but I think the term Over the Rainbow was introduced by the song in the movie. I never read the books. But anyway, that would suggest that Judy is at least familiar with the movies, which are Earth and falls within the latter half of the 20th century. And lets say Judy spent 40 years in Erfworld. She reappears on Earth and what is she gonna tell people? "I've been in frikkin' Oz for the past few dacades"? There is no way she'd tell anyone what had happened.

What this says to me, is that the best Warlords Erf can obtain are the ones who know how to break the rules, because they know what reality is like without those limitations. The best warlords are the ones that come from Earth, and can understand the underlying signamancy, references, and twists of humor in Erfworld. Because Erf Warlords are popped knowing ALL the rules, they can't understand the concept of breaking them.
If she said "I've had enough of this "over the rainbow" boop." I'd agree with you. But she didn't.

She could be referring to how everything on Erf is tiny, precious, and colorful. She could be referring to her drug haze. She could be referring to something else. There are plenty of things she could be talking about besides the song.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 07 – Jack in Black

Postby Lilwik » Sun Sep 01, 2013 6:26 am

BakaGrappler wrote:Book 0, Episode 62: As she's leaving, she says " I’ve had enough of this rainbow boop."
That is very well spotted! I wonder if it's as simple as Judy referencing the movie. Is it possible that there is some other rainbow that Judy could be talking about? Something like this really ought to have two meanings, but until I can think of another meaning I've got to accept that Judy does come from Stupidworld or a world close enough to Stupidworld that Judy could have seen The Wizard of Oz as a movie.

I find Judy's name to be a bit too coincidental. The similarities between the movie and the situation in el-Efbaum could all be explained as a side effect of the summoning spell, but Judy Gale's name directly connecting her to the movie seems highly unlikely. So if Judy came from a world where the movie exists, then I think that Judy Gale is actually an alias that she adopted when she arrived, something like how Parson called himself Lord Hamster.

Lipkin wrote:She could be referring to how everything on Erf is tiny, precious, and colorful. She could be referring to her drug haze. She could be referring to something else. There are plenty of things she could be talking about besides the song.
I certainly want to think of something other than the song that Judy could be talking about, but neither of those suggestions are convincing. Is Erfworld really particularly more colorful than Stupidworld? The Magic Kingdom is rather colorful, but Judy's probably never seen that. Parson's never mentioned things looking especially colorful, and Efbaum is an entirely green city, hardly a rainbow.

As for the drug haze, wasn't it established somewhere that Judy had been using the flowers for so long that they hardly do anything to her anymore? Have we ever seen the flowers connected to rainbows?
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 07 – Jack in Black

Postby WarFAN » Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:32 am

mortissimus wrote:Hm, Charlie's secrets has been mentioned since the Archons first decrypted, and they did not know about the Wizard of Oz background. Perhaps it is just Charlie being paranoid, but I think the battle against Charlie is going to turn on his secrets, which means that Parson is unlikely to figure it out before the climax of the war against Charlie.

The seccrets could be:
- The Wizard of Oz background, ie who is Charlie behind the curtain
- The Arkenshoes
- The Charlie/Olive relationship. Why did Charlie want the Garden, is he secretly hooked on buds?
- Charlie's goals (building Archons and collecting Schmuckers until he can take out the rest of the world in a series of decapitation strikes?)
- Add your own

Or a combination.


I´d rather think that Charlie´s secrets have not been yet revealed. Just a thought.

By the way, the existence of the Arkenshoes is known by everybody, as Stanley made clear when Parson got his first Stupidmeal: "There are four known Arkentools".
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 07 – Jack in Black

Postby Keighvin1 » Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:15 pm

Not to get too into this, but we don't know that there are only 4 Arkentools, so it could be there are 5 tools but the Arkenshoes isn't considered to be "known".
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 07 – Jack in Black

Postby CorrTerek » Sun Sep 01, 2013 1:05 pm

I found this line from Judy when she was ranting at the scarecrow:

“No! I wanted to believe, and I tried my disbandedest to believe, in the rainbow I tried to get over, and I couldn't! … So what? Lots of people can't!”


So there's a comment about "over the rainbow". Still not sure about what it signifies.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 07 – Jack in Black

Postby Lilwik » Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:36 pm

CorrTerek wrote:So there's a comment about "over the rainbow". Still not sure about what it signifies.
For people's reference, that's Book 0, Episode 55. I would really love to hear what people think Judy is talking about, because I can't guess. It seems like just random raving. What kind of rainbow is she trying to believe in? Since when are rainbows hard to believe in? Not only is it hard to believe in, but lots of people can't do it, as if lots of people try to believe in this particular rainbow. Of course, getting over a rainbow makes even less sense than believing in a rainbow.

I can only guess that it's some sort of metaphor that's completely wasted upon me, and if I could only figure it out then Judy's last words would have wonderful new meaning. "I’ve had enough of this rainbow boop." Whatever this rainbow is, it seems to be the most important thing in Erfworld for Judy, and by going home Judy thinks she will be free of struggling to believe in the rainbow.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 07 – Jack in Black

Postby Jabberwocky » Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:06 pm

Lilwik wrote:I can only guess that it's some sort of metaphor that's completely wasted upon me, and if I could only figure it out then Judy's last words would have wonderful new meaning. "I’ve had enough of this rainbow boop." Whatever this rainbow is, it seems to be the most important thing in Erfworld for Judy, and by going home Judy thinks she will be free of struggling to believe in the rainbow.


Somewhere over the rainbow
Way up high
And the dreams that you dreamed of
Once in a lullaby ii ii iii
Somewhere over the rainbow
Blue birds fly
And the dreams that you dreamed of
Dreams really do come true ooh ooooh
Someday I'll wish upon a star
Wake up where the clouds are far behind me ee ee eeh
Where trouble melts like lemon drops
High above the chimney tops that's where you'll find me oh
Somewhere over the rainbow bluebirds fly
And the dream that you dare to,Oh why, oh why can't I?

Well I see trees of green and
Red roses too,
I'll watch them bloom for me and you
And I think to myself
What a wonderful world

Well I see skies of blue and I see clouds of white
And the brightness of day
I like the dark and I think to myself
What a wonderful world

The colors of the rainbow so pretty in the sky
Are also on the faces of people passing by
I see friends shaking hands
Saying, "How do you do?"
They're really saying, I...I love you
I hear babies cry and I watch them grow,
They'll learn much more
Than we'll know
And I think to myself
What a wonderful world world

Someday I'll wish upon a star,
Wake up where the clouds are far behind me

Where trouble melts like lemon drops
High above the chimney top that's where you'll find me
Oh, Somewhere over the rainbow way up high
And the dream that you dare to, why, oh why can't I? I?


Over the Rainbow is a better world. A happier world. Some place good. A lot of people can't get to the Happy Place, try as they might. Judy couldn't. She tried and she tried, until she lost hope, gave up and said 'Screw you guys, I'm going home.' In which 'home' was Kansas; a giant flat piece of suck(I've been there, it is).

In the words of Mr. Pink, Rhyme-a-mancer:

But it was only fantasy.
The wall was too high,
As you can see.
No matter how she tried,
She could not break free.
And the worms ate into her brain.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 07 – Jack in Black

Postby M.A.D » Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:38 pm

0beron wrote:
M.A.D wrote:I'm wondering whether Rob is going to change the names again like Dorothy's.
I doubt it, because I think when Judy/Dorthy was first written he put it right in the news post that her name was just a placeholder. But out of curiosity, who's names are you thinking?


Book 2 Epilogue 7 wrote:But she said Charlie was the Wizard of Oz," Said Parson. "Like, literally the Wizard. And that he got the Arkendish from the Wicked Witch of the West?"


I thought the above names are licensed or something.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 07 – Jack in Black

Postby Jabberwocky » Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:18 pm

M.A.D wrote:
I thought the above names are licensed or something.


The Land of Oz and associated things, such as the Wicked Witch and the Wizard of Oz, entered public domain in 1956. Unlike a certain Mouse, Baum's work didn't have 1200 Lawyers working overtime to keep it locked up tight.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 07 – Jack in Black

Postby Oberon » Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:42 am

Lipkin wrote:If [Judy] said "I've had enough of this "over the rainbow" boop." I'd agree with you. But she didn't.

[Judy] could be referring to how everything on Erf is tiny, precious, and colorful. She could be referring to her drug haze. She could be referring to something else. There are plenty of things she could be talking about besides the song.
Remember that she was deliberately moving away from the only source of her drug fixation. That alone speaks volumes. I don't see her statement as a reference to how Erfworld can be cutesie. To me, she is clearly stating that she is quite done with Erfworld.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 07 – Jack in Black

Postby Lipkin » Mon Sep 02, 2013 4:15 am

To go in another direction of conversation, I wonder how this page is going to effect the continuing story?

http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/ ... -02-10.jpg

I don't see Wanda being happy with who the new public enemy #1 of GK is. Yes, Jillian did not take the chance to earn back Wanda's trust, and instead screwed her over. But I'm not sure Wanda yet knows that Parson is now set on killing Charlie. What will Wanda do when fate says the Arkentools will be united, but also that Parson will Croak Charlie?
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 07 – Jack in Black

Postby BakaGrappler » Mon Sep 02, 2013 4:26 am

Lipkin wrote:To go in another direction of conversation, I wonder how this page is going to effect the continuing story?

http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/ ... -02-10.jpg

I don't see Wanda being happy with who the new public enemy #1 of GK is. Yes, Jillian did not take the chance to earn back Wanda's trust, and instead screwed her over. But I'm not sure Wanda yet knows that Parson is now set on killing Charlie. What will Wanda do when fate says the Arkentools will be united, but also that Parson will Croak Charlie?


Wanda will not oppose Fate. She's learned that lesson repeatedly and in the hardest ways possible. Wanda also sees Parson as an instrument, nay, a vanguard of Fate. And she seems to know that Parson and Charlie are going to come to a very, very, violent situation. If she did not, then it would be meaningless for her to have been desperate for Jack to Decrypt and tell Parson everything he knows about Charlie. That means Wanda knows that Fate is going to be on Parson's side, and that opposing it and him will lead to very bad outcomes. And Wanda also knows that Charlie is not the first to be attuned to the Arkendish... so eventually, after Charlie falls, someone on the winning side may attune in his stead.

Jillian on the other hand, is a damn idiot. She doesn't learn the same lessons about Fate that others do. And that means she is gonna keep causing complications, creating messes, and being an all around pain in the butt until she can be made to get past the natural Thinkamancy of Royalty that is brainwashing her into hating Stanley for being an Overlord instead of a King, and learns the truth of the Fall of FAQ.

By the way, so glad I figured out how FAQ earned it's name, from all the Casters sitting around asking philosophical questions all the time.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 07 – Jack in Black

Postby Chit Rule Railroad » Mon Sep 02, 2013 4:56 pm

Dystopianman wrote:If memory serves, the wizard of oz was originally from Omaha, Nebraska

Hmm, Charlie became money-obsessed and hyper-corporate after getting the Arkendish. That reminds me of the "Oracle of Omaha", Warren Buffett.
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