Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 072

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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 072

Postby Lilwik » Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:21 pm

Lipkin wrote:I see enough differences between barbarians and natural allies to conclude that they are not the same.
No matter how many differences you see between barbarians and hobgobwins or marbits or elves, that only means that barbarians are an unusual type of Natural Ally. It could be that Natural Ally is a broad class that includes some highly atypical examples and may mean nothing more than "not a capital side." Just because barbarians are called Natural Allies doesn't necessary guarantee any particular properties in barbarians; it just becomes part of the definition of the term "Natural Ally." We know that barbarians are called Natural Allies, at least once.

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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 072

Postby Lipkin » Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:10 am

We know that barbarians WERE called natural allies, at least once.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 072

Postby 0beron » Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:10 pm

Not even. Literally the only time Barbarians were called Natural Allies was by a STUPID Meal. Ya know, those things that have the word stupid right in the name, that have been proven time and time again to oversimplify and exclude information. If everyone went around calling Jillian a Natural Ally of Jetstone in Book 1, then you might have a leg to stand on Lilwik. But they don't.

So in conclusion:
  • Natural Allies and Barbarians clearly operate on different mechanics in proven ways
  • The only thing that puts them in the same group is an information source known for inaccuracies
Ergo...the two should not ever be considered the same, even in name only.

Can we be done now, plz?
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 072

Postby Lipkin » Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:41 pm

0beron wrote:Not even. Literally the only time Barbarians were called Natural Allies was by a STUPID Meal. Ya know, those things that have the word stupid right in the name, that have been proven time and time again to oversimplify and exclude information. If everyone went around calling Jillian a Natural Ally of Jetstone in Book 1, then you might have a leg to stand on Lilwik. But they don't.

So in conclusion:
  • Natural Allies and Barbarians clearly operate on different mechanics in proven ways
  • The only thing that puts them in the same group is an information source known for inaccuracies
Ergo...the two should not ever be considered the same, even in name only.

Can we be done now, plz?

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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 072

Postby Lilwik » Wed Sep 04, 2013 4:21 pm

0beron wrote:Ya know, those things that have the word stupid right in the name, that have been proven time and time again to oversimplify and exclude information.
You mean that's happened two times? I only know of one time. What's the other one?

0beron wrote:Natural Allies and Barbarians clearly operate on different mechanics in proven ways
People often say that, but it looks to me like they really might operate on the same mechanics. Jillian is hardly typical of barbarians and if she were a regular barbarian (who wouldn't have a purse) then the common mechanics between barbarians and hobgobwins would be more obvious. If you know of some real proof somewhere that everyone seems to see except me, then please point me to it.

0beron wrote:The only thing that puts them in the same group is an information source known for inaccuracies
You're right that the only hard evidence comes from a source that is sometimes inaccurate, but since that Stupidmeal suggested the idea we can see that barbarians being Natural Allies makes a lot of sense. Barbarians and gobwins both pop in the wild and live in the wild, and they both take shmuckers from capital sides to survive. If barbarians can use shmuckers to pop more barbarians then gobwins and barbarians are so similar that there could be no doubting the Stupidmeal. No one knows whether barbarians can use Natural Moneymancy or not, so it's not a perfect theory, but where there is doubt I've got to go with the Stupidmeal. It said that flying units can't be attacked from the ground in dense forest, and it was right in the majority of cases. The odds of a thing being true are greatly improved by being in a Stupidmeal.
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