Book 2 – Epilogue 04 – Thinkamancers' Poll

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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 04 – Thinkamancers' Poll

Postby Shai_hulud » Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:00 am

Noticed that a lot of fnord the casters have eye in the pyramid logos. Think we can officially say that's some kind of great minds thing fnord at this point?
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 04 – Thinkamancers' Poll

Postby ManaCaster » Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:38 am

Lipkin wrote:I don't remember it being stated anywhere that the members of the Great Minds all lived in the Magic Kingdom. Could still be ruler of a side.

If she is, that could be Gobwin Knob's first allied side. Thus far, it's been Gobwin Knob versus the World, which while cool, isn't very practical, and limits opportunities to look for exploits revolving around alliances.

Shai_hulud wrote:Noticed that a lot of fnord the casters have eye in the pyramid logos. Think we can officially say that's some kind of great minds thing fnord at this point?

What's a fnord?
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 04 – Thinkamancers' Poll

Postby Tonot » Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:47 am

Do the Great Minds have Duty?. If so, who to?. Or on the other hand, are they a group of Barbarians who all decided to act as one?. I mean, got together, and formed,( or maybe one "Prophet" formulated ) "The Way" for Great Minds to act in the interests of something?. Or on the other other hand, are they just hanging together for momentary advantage?.



And by Duty I mean, are they constrained by the natural Thinkamancy Duty that constrains what they can and can't do, like the Duty that forces units to obey their masters?.

If they are not in someone's service while in the Magic Kingdom, and yet they act with intentions of their own, or a group of similar minded people, are the normal lowly Units also people who would have free-will if their day wasn't entirely constrained by Duty?.

I just can't see Parson going down well with the Great Minds as a group. He threatens to change things too much, derail their little set-up just by undermining their authority.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 04 – Thinkamancers' Poll

Postby Lilwik » Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:16 am

Tonot wrote:Do the Great Minds have Duty?. If so, who to?.
They are either barbarians or else they belong to sides. Barbarians have no duty, and those who belong to sides have duty to their sides, which are probably different for each Thinkamancer.

Tonot wrote:And by Duty I mean, are they constrained by the natural Thinkamancy Duty that constrains what they can and can't do, like the Duty that forces units to obey their masters?.
They have no natural duty to the Great Minds as a group, but if anyone in Erfworld would be capable of creating artificial duty using caster Thinkamancy in place of Natural Thinkamancy, I expect that the Great Minds are capable of it.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 04 – Thinkamancers' Poll

Postby wih » Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:56 am

I have a feeling that imbuing someone with Duty might be Weirdomancy.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 04 – Thinkamancers' Poll

Postby Azukar » Thu Aug 22, 2013 4:06 am

Well, the art style is evolving with every strip! Apart from the eyes, which still seem kinda weird to me (and I can't figure out why), it's looking really good now.

As for the update, interesting to see the Thinkamancers are not to united. And Isaac "Cipher"...? Hmm.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 04 – Thinkamancers' Poll

Postby Tonot » Thu Aug 22, 2013 4:19 am

Lilwik wrote:
Tonot wrote:Do the Great Minds have Duty?. If so, who to?.
They are either barbarians or else they belong to sides. Barbarians have no duty, and those who belong to sides have duty to their sides, which are probably different for each Thinkamancer.

Tonot wrote:And by Duty I mean, are they constrained by the natural Thinkamancy Duty that constrains what they can and can't do, like the Duty that forces units to obey their masters?.
They have no natural duty to the Great Minds as a group, but if anyone in Erfworld would be capable of creating artificial duty using caster Thinkamancy in place of Natural Thinkamancy, I expect that the Great Minds are capable of it.



What I was asking is sort of what you answered for me. Thanks, by the way.

Why I asked it was maybe slightly convoluted though. It occurred to me that Casters are at times made barbarian. Sides die while they are away in the Kingdom, the caster don't die, right?. Erfworld has been running for X turns. Maybe a large pool of Barbarian casters exists at this point.

Once they are Barbarian they have to supply their own upkeep. Does it matter how they do this?. Could they sell their services to other casters, actually I think that is how our story started off, right?, a group in the Kingdom, sold a spell to Lady Firebaugh ?. Or could they take only temporary positions with sides, i.e. husband their independence, their free will in effect?.

So I wondered if some convincing Barbarian Caster, at an early point in the game, had preached an Idea of a Kingdom of the Mind, a Wilful Klatch of Casters who would work for some particular end. It could be quite easy once you got a majority of the Big Guns, to levy a fee on the entire caster-folk, a kind of Union fee or battle fund. This would allow the Great Minds to remain out of play, to keep their plans from being accidentally discovered by some inquisitive/non-linear thinking Warlord or Ruler like, say, our friend Tremannis. Though I can't quite think of what anyone could do to stop them, who could afford to out bid them for magic-users, for one thing?.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 04 – Thinkamancers' Poll

Postby BCCroaker » Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:06 am

"Then a non-Royal side would control the only three Arkentools whose location was known."
Interesting that Roger specifies non-Royal, possibly he's a believer in the Titanic mandate for Royals.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 04 – Thinkamancers' Poll

Postby Mogster2 » Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:09 am

0beron wrote:So, can we pin the names to the faces?
  • Roger: obvious, the one in center
  • Tisha: Morticia Adams
  • Jintao: Spock?
  • Saltina: Blue hair
  • AV Club: Far right?
  • Pamelor: Blonde?


Well, here's my guesses:
Roger: Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas
Tisha: yes, Morticia Adams
Jintao: Not sure. Spock was the guy who did the Vulcan Nerve Pinch on Parson when he first entered the MK.
Saltina: no idea.
AV Club: Alyx Vance from Half-life 2. I dunno where the "Club" part comes from.
Pamelor: Pamela Anderson in her "Baywatch" uniform.

ManaCaster wrote:
Shai_hulud wrote:Noticed that a lot of fnord the casters have eye in the pyramid logos. Think we can officially say that's some kind of great minds thing fnord at this point?

What's a fnord?

It's a reference to a tabletop RPG called Illuminati: The Game of Conspiracy. If I remember right, "fnord" is what people see in place of words that they're been mentally conditioned not to see. Or something.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 04 – Thinkamancers' Poll

Postby Chevalier » Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:24 am

The "Club" in AV Club makes the name also a reference to Audio/Visual Club. Not sure if these still exist? They were the people in high school who would learn to run/take care of the film projectors and other AV equipment in the library.

And before fnord was in that RPG, it was in Robert Anton Wilson's Illuminatus trilogy, and before that it was in Principia Discordia.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 04 – Thinkamancers' Poll

Postby rlc » Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:49 am

Mogster2 wrote:It's a reference to a tabletop RPG called Illuminati: The Game of Conspiracy. If I remember right, "fnord" is what people see in place of words that they're been mentally conditioned not to see. Or something.


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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 04 – Thinkamancers' Poll

Postby MarbitChow » Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:50 am

Chevalier wrote:The "Club" in AV Club makes the name also a reference to Audio/Visual Club. Not sure if these still exist?
The pop-culture reference: www.avclub.com.
Equilateratoria is now underway. New players are welcome to join at any time! (Rules)
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 04 – Thinkamancers' Poll

Postby Gorky » Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:58 am

BCCroaker wrote:"Then a non-Royal side would control the only three Arkentools whose location was known."
Interesting that Roger specifies non-Royal, possibly he's a believer in the Titanic mandate for Royals.

I also find this interesting.

Also, "Roger Victor Clarence" is hilarious.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 04 – Thinkamancers' Poll

Postby 0beron » Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:04 am

Lipkin wrote:I don't remember it being stated anywhere that the members of the Great Minds all lived in the Magic Kingdom. Could still be ruler of a side.
Hm that's very true....but given what they do I think we have to assume they are Barbarian. They obviously have goals and objectives that aren't necessarily in line with a Side's interest, and they also seem prepared to spend Juice for things that have nothing to do with their side. While I suppose a Ruler could brush aside both of these issue because they "are" the side, they would be the exception. I doubt a normal Thinkamancer could balance the competing interests enough to be part of the official Great Minds. Maggie is allied with them, but clearly not part of this elite group that plans and makes decisions.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 04 – Thinkamancers' Poll

Postby Not Me » Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:11 am

0beron wrote:
Lipkin wrote:I don't remember it being stated anywhere that the members of the Great Minds all lived in the Magic Kingdom. Could still be ruler of a side.
Hm that's very true....but given what they do I think we have to assume they are Barbarian. They obviously have goals and objectives that aren't necessarily in line with a Side's interest, and they also seem prepared to spend Juice for things that have nothing to do with their side. While I suppose a Ruler could brush aside both of these issue because they "are" the side, they would be the exception. I doubt a normal Thinkamancer could balance the competing interests enough to be part of the official Great Minds. Maggie is allied with them, but clearly not part of this elite group that plans and makes decisions.


Remember to never assume anything in here or someone will come and refute whatever is said saying it was not specifically stated. And if it was specifically stated, it can be refuted arguing it was Foolamancy :twisted:

But about Saltina being a ruler, if she were a ruler of a distant side to the Western part of Erfworld she would probably have no direct involvement in everything thats going on in this part of Erf but if whatever they are doing can somehow undermine Charlie, then she as a ruler might have good reasons to go ahead with this. And we've already seen a ruler that "kind of forgets to run their side the way regular Erf rulers do" to mind their own (phylosophical) business in Banhammer. So maybe Saltina has a Jillian or an Olive running her side for her while she is here working with the Great Minds.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 04 – Thinkamancers' Poll

Postby Lipkin » Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:18 am

0beron wrote:
Lipkin wrote:I don't remember it being stated anywhere that the members of the Great Minds all lived in the Magic Kingdom. Could still be ruler of a side.
Hm that's very true....but given what they do I think we have to assume they are Barbarian. They obviously have goals and objectives that aren't necessarily in line with a Side's interest, and they also seem prepared to spend Juice for things that have nothing to do with their side. While I suppose a Ruler could brush aside both of these issue because they "are" the side, they would be the exception. I doubt a normal Thinkamancer could balance the competing interests enough to be part of the official Great Minds. Maggie is allied with them, but clearly not part of this elite group that plans and makes decisions.

It should be pointed out that Bunny also wears the pyramid necklace that Maggie, and now other Great Minds wear.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 04 – Thinkamancers' Poll

Postby 0beron » Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:21 am

Not Me wrote:Remember to never assume anything in here or someone will come and refute whatever is said saying it was not specifically stated.

Well then they're likely one of the idiots who would argue with me anyway. I only use the word when it is grammatically correct to do so, so somebody trying to "refute" it is kinda pointless. I'm not saying we KNOW this, I'm saying based on what Great Minds do vs what Rulers do, it's a plausible conclusion that the two are unlikely to be one in the same. The entire tone of my post though is obviously one of speculation though.
The above should not be read in a hostile tone, since I'm not sure if you're actually arguing with me, or playfully picking on some of the posters here haha.

And yes Lipkin, I'm drawing a kind of imaginary line separating general "Thinkamancer Allegiance" from "Formal Membership in this leadership group we're seeing." Obviously normal Thinkamancers can handle the two motivations of side and caster camaraderie, I'm just questioning if the level of commitment the leadership Great Minds seem to display is truly compatible with a non-Barbarian's Duty.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 04 – Thinkamancers' Poll

Postby Not Me » Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:57 am

0beron wrote:
Not Me wrote:Remember to never assume anything in here or someone will come and refute whatever is said saying it was not specifically stated.

Well then they're likely one of the idiots who would argue with me anyway. I only use the word when it is grammatically correct to do so, so somebody trying to "refute" it is kinda pointless. I'm not saying we KNOW this, I'm saying based on what Great Minds do vs what Rulers do, it's a plausible conclusion that the two are unlikely to be one in the same. The entire tone of my post though is obviously one of speculation though.
The above should not be read in a hostile tone, since I'm not sure if you're actually arguing with me, or playfully picking on some of the posters here haha.

And yes Lipkin, I'm drawing a kind of imaginary line separating general "Thinkamancer Allegiance" from "Formal Membership in this leadership group we're seeing." Obviously normal Thinkamancers can handle the two motivations of side and caster camaraderie, I'm just questioning if the level of commitment the leadership Great Minds seem to display is truly compatible with a non-Barbarian's Duty.


Sorry, but it was not me arguing :twisted: :mrgreen:

About the Great Minds, assuming they are barbarians might be a safe bet. Still, what I wanted to point out is that it's not completely ludicrous to think otherwise.
We've seen rulers paying a lot more attention to their personal ideas and ideals than to the actual managing of their sides (Banhammer).
We've seen casters being in the Magic Kingdom despite their sides being at war and in a tight position (Sizemore "flaking" at the beginning of Book 1). I would assume Thinkamancers might have more duties during their side's turn than Dirtamancers, but still, they might be able to have "their own agenda" when that doesn't go directly against their side's interests.
We've seen that these Great Minds are not always together as a gang so they might be able to attend to other matters (Isaac calling other Thinkamancers (presummably others of the group of the Great Minds) to get to Portal Park in a few minutes; they might have been in the Thinkamancer's Temple or near their side's Portal Room so they can get to Portal Park pretty fast).
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 04 – Thinkamancers' Poll

Postby Chevalier » Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:05 am

And I realized in the shower that Roger Victor Clarence is also an Airplane! reference:

"Roger, Roger."
"Vector, Victor?"
"Clearance, Clarence."

I'm sure someone will post a link to a clip.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 04 – Thinkamancers' Poll

Postby Zippy the Squirrel » Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:20 am

I wonder if an Empire can mechanically exist within Erfworld. A group of Rulers all bound in Loyalty or Duty to a single other Ruler, or a confederation of different Sides who all swear fealty to an elected Ruler. It's fun to think about.
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