Book 2 – Epilogue 02 – Jack Decrypted

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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 02 – Jack Decrypted

Postby Zeku » Fri Aug 16, 2013 6:06 pm

No one in particular wrote:(links)


Thank you.

So what type of magic is NDA? I'm going to guess pure carnymancy, (it's a pretty good fit) one of the hippiemancies, (for it's nullification ability) or just pure predictamancy for it's interaction with fate.

It's also possible that since Jack has to 'inform' Charlie that he is no longer contractually obligated, that the contract is maintained through threat of force.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 02 – Jack Decrypted

Postby Sir Shadow » Fri Aug 16, 2013 6:22 pm

It's probably like any kind of treaty, it has nothing to do with magic. Charlie made a treaty with every individual unit involved with some 'secret' so that they would be unable to speak something about him. In return, they must have gained something at the time, whether it was the information itself or some other boon. If anything I suppose it could be consider 'natural carnymancy' but what type of magic it is isn't important.

It's like any kind of treaty between two sides, however it's just on an Unit level.

It's also possible that since Jack has to 'inform' Charlie that he is no longer contractually obligated, that the contract is maintained through threat of force.
I'm fairly certain you're misreading something, Wanda said to inform PARSON as soon as Jack was able, not Charlie.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 02 – Jack Decrypted

Postby No one in particular » Fri Aug 16, 2013 6:26 pm

Finn MacCool wrote:
No one in particular wrote:Wait, contracts, EULAs, NDAs... Charlie isn't a Carnymancer! He's... a LAWYER! D:

meh, same difference.

No, no, see... you can win sometimes against a carnymancer.

Zeku wrote:So what type of magic is NDA? I'm going to guess pure carnymancy, (it's a pretty good fit) one of the hippiemancies, (for it's nullification ability) or just pure predictamancy for it's interaction with fate.

It's also possible that since Jack has to 'inform' Charlie that he is no longer contractually obligated, that the contract is maintained through threat of force.

I don't think contracts or NDAs fall under the exact branches of magic like that. I'm guessing it's either a Natural Thinkamancy type of thing, or a pure Mechanics thing. Like how forming an Alliance with a side forces you both to take your turns at the same time and after any sides with fewer allies than you; you could maybe call it Natural Turnamancy, but it doesn't matter. Erfworld recognizes that you entered into a formal agreement/arrangement, and adjusts a lot of gameplay in response.

I also don't think the contract was one of threats. As we've seen with Parson, the contract he's got with Charlie interferes with his ability to focus on anything besides fulfilling the contract ("But Charlie’s request for a calculation had the weird effect of numbing him up and focusing his mind on this one trivial thing." - LIAB Text 59). That might just be Charlie & the 'Dish using "unmatched thinkamancy" to enforce it, but I got the impression that it was the Mechanics of Erfworld in play. When you make a formal contract in Erfworld, the Titans see it and make sure you'll either follow through on it.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 02 – Jack Decrypted

Postby Lipkin » Fri Aug 16, 2013 6:33 pm

youngstormlord wrote:Completely unrelated to current update (art needs a little more work imo, I'd like text and pictures and not just a big picture btw), I think I know how to get Capital back to Gobwin Knob.

Step 1. Empty the city.
Step 2. Ask one of the barbarian casters to step through the portal.
Step 3. Barbarian caster has just captured your capital city! Stanley is free to name GK Capital again.
Step 4. Stanley does so.

Alternatively, ask a caster from some other side "Hey, do you want to capture a city for your side?"

I like this a lot. But I don't think Parson would trust a Barbarian caster with such a thing. Even under contract, they might be too tempted to break the contract and keep the city, or raze it instead.

But Wanda could order Jack or Ace to go barbarian and capture the city. They'd stay loyal, and turn back to Gobwin Knob when asked.

As for what the NDA could be about, what about Judy? If they are sworn to secrecy about everything they learned on that turn, then they haven't been able to tell Parson that he wasn't the first Warlord summoned that way. There is a ton of information about her that is relevant to Parson.

When we first met Judy, she said she was supposed to kill Charlie, but she didn't. I assumed at the time this just meant she was supposed to kill the ruler of her enemy side. But what if it were fate instead. If the fate that says Parson is supposed to kill Charlie is instead that a summoned warlord will kill Charlie, that would explain a few things. It would explain why Charlie doesn't seem to want to directly kill Parson. It probably wouldn't work. But Charlie knows that a previously summoned Warlord was able to return home of their own free will, so Charlie tried to force Parson to do the same. Not being able to talk about Judy also keeps them from telling Parson about the Arken Shoes, which would let him go home. And we don't even know everything that they are sworn not to speak of yet, because Jack and Wanda have yet to make the deal.

However, one more things now makes sense. Marie's part in all of this. She knows everything that Jack and Wanda know about Charlie as well. That may be why she didn't prevent the fall of Faq. She may have been able to save the city, but that would mean that she wouldn't be able to put things in motion to summon Parson, and end war on Erf.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 02 – Jack Decrypted

Postby Kreistor » Fri Aug 16, 2013 6:36 pm

0beron wrote:No Kriestor, now YOU are the one wearing the tinfoil hat. It has been EXPLICITLY stated that Charlie knows about G-strings and how to use them. Besides that obvious fact glaring you in the face,


I have no who you're arguing with. None of this has anything to do with my foreseen usefulness of Jack's deal. I don't need to prove anything to use that knowledge to counter speculation that I can connect Jack to.

When you have something on point, try again.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 02 – Jack Decrypted

Postby TheLiontamer » Fri Aug 16, 2013 6:50 pm

David's art has been pretty depressing, especially this last update. Which is weird, since on his site he has some pretty good comic fanart. I'm not a big fan of his style, and I'm sure atleast half of that was being a total fanboy for Xin's work(Especially whenever she drew Wanda). I am hoping it was just really rushed or something, but... If the comic pages look like this update did... I might be looking for text only versions while diving into Xin's portfolio.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 02 – Jack Decrypted

Postby No one in particular » Fri Aug 16, 2013 7:31 pm

Hey, you know what I'm looking forward to?

When David has to stop drawing Erfworld at the end of Book 3 (that seems to be the trend... New book, new artist! :p ), and everyone will be all "Oh, no, we love your art, how will your replacement ever live up to you?" and then rag on the new guy after all of 4 panels that don't give any room to stretch their talents because it's a packed group in a bare room.

Yeah. That's gonna be fun.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 02 – Jack Decrypted

Postby Lilwik » Fri Aug 16, 2013 7:50 pm

WarFAN wrote:Why did Charlie bind all FAQ under a contract of no-telling anybody this pitiful bits of absolutely superfluous gossips?
That's easy to answer and not nearly the most interesting question to ask! Charlie would bind Faq to keep his secrets because he is paranoid and loves keeping secrets. He needs no more justification than that. The really interesting question is why Wanda thinks that some secret that they know should be told to Parson urgently. It means that at some point in the past they learned something about Charlie that is important now in Wanda's judgement, and that means something more than we've yet seen in Book 0, something shocking, enormous, and strategically important even after all these turns.

We know that Olive knows secrets about Charlie that she hasn't yet revealed. I have no idea why she would reveal any of them now that the trial has ended, but now we know that she will, and it makes me more eager for Book 0 than I've ever been. I'm almost certain that we will learn the secret in Book 0 before we see Jack tell it to Parson.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 02 – Jack Decrypted

Postby randint » Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:09 pm

No one in particular wrote:...
Random guessing time!
...


What if Charlie actually IS the Arkendish?

I mean, so far all our Arkentool attuned users have had to keep in direct contact with their tools in order to use them
We keep seeing the Arkendish sitting on top of a tower, isolated without anyone near it.
And Charlie did supposedly "pay some terrible price" to survive his assassination attempt.

Think about it.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 02 – Jack Decrypted

Postby Lilwik » Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:29 pm

randint wrote:What if Charlie actually IS the Arkendish?
The problem with that theory is that it doesn't help Parson, and I can't imagine why Wanda would consider it important to tell Parson. It's worth mentioning, but hardly urgent. Maybe Charlie is bonded with the Arkendish in some far deeper way than merely being attuned, but there also needs to be something more, something that either is dangerous for Parson or is an opportunity.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 02 – Jack Decrypted

Postby No one in particular » Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:46 pm

randint wrote:
What if Charlie actually IS the Arkendish?

I mean, so far all our Arkentool attuned users have had to keep in direct contact with their tools in order to use them
We keep seeing the Arkendish sitting on top of a tower, isolated without anyone near it.
And Charlie did supposedly "pay some terrible price" to survive his assassination attempt.

Think about it.
... now I'm thinking about Fallout: New Vegas and Mr House. I can see it now...

Charlie's a withered husk locked in a box that keeps him alive, and relies entirely on the 'Dish and his archons to do anything. Parson's just going to wreck his defenses, steal the dish, and leave him to die within a year because he can control his archons anymore.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 02 – Jack Decrypted

Postby 0beron » Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:07 pm

Kreistor wrote:Illogical blather with horrible grammar.
Um I have no idea where you're even trying to go anymore. You claimed that Charlie has absolutely no ability to hack Thinkamancy, when we have explicitly stated proof that he CAN. Then add on top of that the fact that your mole idea completely contradicts everything we know about Duty.
When you have tinfoil speculation that's actually possible, try again.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 02 – Jack Decrypted

Postby Sieggy » Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:35 pm

WarFAN wrote:And the elephant in the room is...

What is so important about Charlie's past?

We know he is a Carny, as is Jojo. We know he got an arkentool, as Stanley did. We know his daughter tried to kill him, just as Don's. We know he did some magic research here and there, as the casters who created the Perfect Warlord Spell. So what? Why any of this things is important?

Why did Charlie bind all FAQ under a contract of no-telling anybody this pitiful bits of absolutely superfluous gossips?

Because he's from Earth, same as Parson. He knows what someone outside the game reality the Titans constructed can see what those within cannot. He has prospered because of that perspective, and now Parson poses an existential threat to him.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 02 – Jack Decrypted

Postby Kreistor » Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:36 pm

0beron wrote:Um I have no idea where you're even trying to go anymore.


Because you have no idea where we've been. The following case proves you are completely and dead wrong about me and my beliefs.

0beron wrote:You claimed that Charlie has absolutely no ability to hack Thinkamancy,


In fact, I said the complete opposite.

me, reaction thread Page 114 wrote:
Re: Book 2 – Page 114

Postby Kreistor » Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:28 am
Parson is breaking the world. He has now broken the MK.

"Hey Isaac. Thinkagram me a sec?"
"Chief Parson?"
"Okay. Now we go to your place. And figure out how to kill Charlie."
And far away in Charlescomm, where the Arkendish's power over Thinkamancy gives Charlie access to every Thinkagram... Charlie does a faceslap. "Well, boop. That backfired."

So, did Parson intentionally tell Charlie he's so pissed off at the attempted assassination that he wants Charlie to prepare for the upcoming assault? Or does he merely know that Charlie would know he's next on Parson's hit list? .


I have clearly stated that I believe that Parson intentionally started the Thinkagram to Isaac in order to have Charlie eavesdrop on it. I am still of that belief. I have given no indication that I have changed that belief.

Would you like to embarrass yourself with more Strawman arguments? Like I said, your thoughts are irrelevant and not on point.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 02 – Jack Decrypted

Postby GWvsJohn » Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:42 pm

I think 0beron was referring to something you said earlier implied that this update suggested that Jack was some kind of informant for Charlie and that's where he got his intel from.

I think it's pretty obvious this update is implying the FAQers had some sort of NDA
I know how it works. And I'm not that confident.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 02 – Jack Decrypted

Postby 0beron » Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:45 pm

Kreistor wrote:Would you like to continue embarrassing me by pointing out what an idiot I am?
May I direct your attention to the post that started this entire discussion?
Kriestor wrote:Everything has to be reviewed. Absolutely everything. We now have to consider Jack as a mole for Charlie. It can begin with Charlie knowing when Parson became CW. No Archons, Thinkamancy tapping, hacking, or cracking. Jack bleedin' told him.
I don't give a rat's behind what you've said in previous threads, because in your own words "Everything has to be reviewed. Absolutely everything.", suggesting that you were completely reconsidering all of your previous opinions. So don't throw YOUR strawman garbage back at me, man up and stand behind your own statements when someone finds evidence your theory is flawed.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 02 – Jack Decrypted

Postby Tonot » Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:32 pm

I read the comic, and a light bulb went on over my head.

(Nothing actually in my head, but you get the idea.)

:P

randint wrote:
What if Charlie actually IS the Arkendish?


And Charlie did supposedly "pay some terrible price" to survive his assassination attempt.

Think about it.



AHA. ( Someone else did have a thought in their head)

He was attuned to the Arkendish, someone stuck a knife in his kidneys, he began to go where Erfworlders go when they are croaked, and thought real hard about it instead, and has stayed thinking real hard about it all along, running like a programme inside the Arkendish.

This is why no one has ever seen him, except the three "personal" Arkhons who are always closeted "with" him, and transmit his orders. Also why he is so supremely capable of Thinkamancy. It is all he is capable of now, because it is all he is, just a Thinkamancy call he started with his last breath, between himself and the Arkendish, that he never allows to disconnect
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 02 – Jack Decrypted

Postby KingTyris » Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:02 am

Wasn't very happy with Jack getting decrypted at first, but now I'm intrigued. Still not very happy with the artwork.

Interesting to see the normally dominant Wanda treating someone in Jacks position as a peer.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 02 – Jack Decrypted

Postby Arky » Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:09 am

BOOM shake shake shake the room! That's the most startling update in a while in the "present".

So this is why Wanda, Jack and Jillian have never talked about the events of book 0. Presumably (noting the likelihood of assumptions being wrong) Charlie uses team FAQ to take revenge on Olive and swears them to secrecy about his origins, with the quid pro quo being that he does not attack FAQ himself - creating the loophole where he arranges Stanley's luck in finding dwagons as a way of burying his mitakes. And very cool to give Wanda an alternative motivation for her earlier eagerness to see Jack become decrypted.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 02 – Jack Decrypted

Postby CorrTerek » Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:16 am

Kreistor wrote:I have no who you're arguing with. None of this has anything to do with my foreseen usefulness of Jack's deal. I don't need to prove anything to use that knowledge to counter speculation that I can connect Jack to.


Wait, are you saying that you'll use the fact that Jack had some kind of binding agreement with Charlie to shoot down any piece of speculation that you don't agree with so long as Jack is even remotely connected to it?

...That seems kind of pointlessly dickish.

At any rate, good to see Jack is still at least partially himself. I look forward to seeing where he goes from here.
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