Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 071

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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 071

Postby 0beron » Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:54 am

drachefly wrote:Another tidbit: the jester refers to the king in the third person.
Yeah that is what I was originally responding to. Orders are Natural THINKamancy, and Besty seems to understand that this effect is Thinkamancy based. This is from Jillian's perspective and she's not in a right state, so I wouldn't call illogical grammar a huge red flag.
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GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 071

Postby Goshen » Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:05 pm

No one in particular wrote:Also, as always, kudos to Jack for keeping his head when those around him are out of theirs.


Yes, it makes sense that the foolamancer would be best able to think under those conditions.

But why would Olive spring her trap? Banhammer had acquitted her.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 071

Postby ftl » Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:20 pm

Could be because the trap was already in motion. Setting a fire in the garden and waiting for the whole thing to inflame could have taken some time. She could have sprung the trap a while ago and it just now came to fruition. (Could even be when she got a chance to talk to Charlie.)
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 071

Postby 0beron » Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:21 pm

Goshen wrote:But why would Olive spring her trap? Banhammer had acquitted her.
  • Wanda or Jillian might find a way to get her killed later
  • She wants all of FAQ's casters for Haffaton, since she got all of theirs killed or lost.
  • She actually hates Banhammer, has been faking nice up till now cus she was in trouble, and is jumping at the chance to kill FAQ now.
  • The trap isn't actually her doing (and she knows that if she doesn't run she'll be blamed and croaked anyway)
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GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 071

Postby Urf » Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:20 pm

The jester is Jillian's projection of a conscience, in the image of her father crossed with her opinions of him. It's a complicated sort of thing, but the jester is an archetype mashup, personal to Jillian.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 071

Postby No one in particular » Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:39 pm

Urf wrote:The jester is Jillian's projection of a conscience, in the image of her father crossed with her opinions of him. It's a complicated sort of thing, but the jester is an archetype mashup, personal to Jillian.

Yes, yes, that's the signamancy of it. But the fact remains that her father was physically there, in the room, when the hallucinations started. Exactly where the jester appeared. And this time around, it's not just in Jillian's head, so what other people are saying is coming from the actual people and not just Jillian thinking of what they would say.

Wanda has had a long, long history with the Buds by this point, so she's mostly lucid.
Jack is a foolamancer and... well, Jack, so he's as lucid as he ever is.
Jillian is starting to get some tolerance for the Buds, and has Wanda & Jack supporting her, so she's a bit more on the ball.
For Betsy, Rusty & Banhammer, this is their first trip and they seem to be sedated, manic & had their restraints removed, respectively.

I'm starting to think that maybe tranquility, etiquette & pacifism don't come naturally or easily to Banhammer, and if he wasn't as dedicated to his ideals as he was, he'd be as brash & bloodthirsty as Jillian.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 071

Postby Whispri » Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:48 pm

Goshen wrote:But why would Olive spring her trap? Banhammer had acquitted her.

The Haffaton Warlord in charge of the operation probably didn't know that.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 071

Postby ftl » Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:06 pm

No one in particular wrote:[
Yes, yes, that's the signamancy of it. But the fact remains that her father was physically there, in the room, when the hallucinations started.


They're not in the room when the hallucinations start. In the previous update, they're leaving the room, they're outside now.

I'm not really sure. On one hand, the jester does appear exactly where her father was. On the other hand, he does seem to say the sort of things that Jillian's Duty would say, not what Banhammer would say. Though, if he is the King, he is quite high, and that could explain an personality shift.

I suppose we'll see. I don't think I'd be confident enough to bet either way.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 071

Postby Pointyleaf » Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:10 pm

ftl wrote:Could be because the trap was already in motion. Setting a fire in the garden and waiting for the whole thing to inflame could have taken some time. She could have sprung the trap a while ago and it just now came to fruition. (Could even be when she got a chance to talk to Charlie.)


Well, hell, this really prompts a question:

Can light and heat cross hexes off-turn? So, umm, if I could build a laser, or even just focus and reflect sunlight, could I damage a unit on the other side of a hex boundary?

With enough reflectors (e.g., shiny shields), you can easily start a fire. Could you burn down an enemy city without even engaging in combat, without even being in the same hex?
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 071

Postby 0beron » Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:12 pm

Pointyleaf wrote:Can light and heat cross hexes off-turn?

Well, "off-turn" in what sense? When does erfworld itself get a turn? Because that's what's happening here, its not a unit or spell, its a "natural" phenomenon.
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GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 071

Postby Taikei no Yuurei » Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:27 pm

I would guess it would be blocked in the same way an arrow is blocked, but it might be one of those loopholes that Parson could exploit, but no one else would think of (Since, you know, they're unlikely to even know the sunlight trick)
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 071

Postby crex90 » Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:36 pm

Taikei no Yuurei wrote:I would guess it would be blocked in the same way an arrow is blocked, but it might be one of those loopholes that Parson could exploit, but no one else would think of (Since, you know, they're unlikely to even know the sunlight trick)


Sizemore seemed appalled (http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/First_Intermission_29) by the idea that time would pass the same in one hex as it does in another. Your laser probably wouldn't work just because the sun would be at a different angle in each hex it passed through (or perhaps entirely set, in some cases). Still, it's an interesting idea.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 071

Postby GWvsJohn » Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:39 pm

Taikei no Yuurei wrote:I would guess it would be blocked in the same way an arrow is blocked, but it might be one of those loopholes that Parson could exploit, but no one else would think of (Since, you know, they're unlikely to even know the sunlight trick)


If focused light is even able to start a fire in Erfworld. For all we know you might need a natural ability like Dwagon breath or magic or a specialized item like a flint to start a fire.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 071

Postby drachefly » Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:24 pm

crex90 wrote:Sizemore seemed appalled (http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/First_Intermission_29) by the idea that time would pass the same in one hex as it does in another.


Not quite. While the hexes are in communication, they can be forced to match up. Being under ranged attack seems like it'd be a form of communication.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 071

Postby mortissimus » Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:39 pm

It is also Haffaton's turn, so if this is a distance-smoke-attack it should pass the hex barrier (arrows do pass hex borders on you turn, right?)

With Jester/Banhammer, in the beginning it is clearly Banhammer talking to Jack:
“Where?” said the bird to the jester, “Which way?”

The jester waved his arms. “How should I know, Fool?”


But that does not mean that everything Jillian hears has been said by Banhammer, it could be some addition by wishes and drugs. Remember that Jillian is unsure who and if she hearself is heard by the Gwiffons.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 071

Postby No one in particular » Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:57 pm

mortissimus wrote:It is also Haffaton's turn, so if this is a distance-smoke-attack it should pass the hex barrier (arrows do pass hex borders on you turn, right?)

Relevant text in response to hex borders & turns:
LIAB Text 33a wrote: City Zones and Hex Boundaries

Talking about this stuff got us on hex boundaries. Archers and city ballistic engines can shoot across hex boundaries on their turn. But when it's not their turn they can only shoot enemy units in the same hex (or city zone if their side doesn't own the city), or as defense when your city is being attacked.

Same thing goes for some natural attacks like dwagon breath. Can't park your reds on a hex border and fry enemies in the adjoining hex. Breath is blocked at the hex boundary or the boundary of a city zone. Arrows just freeze in midair. I had to go see that for myself.


I think the issue of hex borders comes into play when an attack is directed. Trying to throw something across a border makes it freeze in place; putting it in place and letting nature (gravity, wind, river currents, etc) move it bypasses that. (e.g. Parson's food fight to land in the courtyard, Olive dropping a bud on Jillian to bypass the no-fight spell.)
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 071

Postby Taikei no Yuurei » Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:06 pm

crex90 wrote:
Taikei no Yuurei wrote:I would guess it would be blocked in the same way an arrow is blocked, but it might be one of those loopholes that Parson could exploit, but no one else would think of (Since, you know, they're unlikely to even know the sunlight trick)


Sizemore seemed appalled (http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/First_Intermission_29) by the idea that time would pass the same in one hex as it does in another. Your laser probably wouldn't work just because the sun would be at a different angle in each hex it passed through (or perhaps entirely set, in some cases). Still, it's an interesting idea.


The sun in an adjacent hex wouldn't matter for trying to use the sun in your hex to light it on fire.

No one in particular wrote:
mortissimus wrote:It is also Haffaton's turn, so if this is a distance-smoke-attack it should pass the hex barrier (arrows do pass hex borders on you turn, right?)

Relevant text in response to hex borders & turns:
LIAB Text 33a wrote: City Zones and Hex Boundaries

Talking about this stuff got us on hex boundaries. Archers and city ballistic engines can shoot across hex boundaries on their turn. But when it's not their turn they can only shoot enemy units in the same hex (or city zone if their side doesn't own the city), or as defense when your city is being attacked.

Same thing goes for some natural attacks like dwagon breath. Can't park your reds on a hex border and fry enemies in the adjoining hex. Breath is blocked at the hex boundary or the boundary of a city zone. Arrows just freeze in midair. I had to go see that for myself.


I think the issue of hex borders comes into play when an attack is directed. Trying to throw something across a border makes it freeze in place; putting it in place and letting nature (gravity, wind, river currents, etc) move it bypasses that. (e.g. Parson's food fight to land in the courtyard, Olive dropping a bud on Jillian to bypass the no-fight spell.)


That quote seems to be self contradicting. It says ranged attacks can pass the boundary on your turn, then says the same thing happens for some natural abilities like dwagon breath... it can't pass a hex boundary. According to the fact that archers can shoot across hex boundaries, and dwagon breath uses the same principle, it should be able to pass the boundary and set a city on fire from an adjacent hex. You couldn't do it off turn, but it seems to indicate you could do it on your own turn.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 071

Postby 0beron » Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:11 pm

Taikei no Yuurei wrote:That quote seems to be self contradicting. It says ranged attacks can pass the boundary on your turn, then says the same thing happens for some natural abilities like dwagon breath... it can't pass a hex boundary.

No I think the "same goes for natural attacks" is referring to the off-turn issue. He's saying the two things work the same way.
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GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 071

Postby Zeku » Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:26 pm

Cmon guys, the pikachu thing is amazing, it's stacked references and homonym abuse, which is the whole Erfworld thing.

Shockamancy is sexual vulgarity, and also magical zapping. Pikachu is not only a shockamancer, but he is also 'peeking at you.' It's freaking brilliant. This requires extensive meditation on words. Lets give credit where it's due.

Edit: Oh by the way Jillian is in love with Wanda, and it's going a bit further than stockholm syndrome. (Or maybe its just a very advanced case.) Love is an emotional investment in an idealized perception of someone else, so the whole thing is pretty straightforward.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 071

Postby Aquillion » Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:48 pm

ftl wrote:Could be because the trap was already in motion. Setting a fire in the garden and waiting for the whole thing to inflame could have taken some time. She could have sprung the trap a while ago and it just now came to fruition. (Could even be when she got a chance to talk to Charlie.)
Another possibility:

None of this is happening; it's all Foolamancy by Jack in order to get Olive to reveal her true colors by putting her in a position where she thinks she's won. Jillian has to be included because she's so straightforward that she'd give the game away otherwise.
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