Book 2 – Page 114

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Re: Book 2 – Page 114

Postby YesNinja » Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:55 am

Zeku wrote:Just wanted to broach an unrelated subject.

The exact nature of the MK has not been established. It's relatively safe to assume that it came into existence after the Titans created Erfworld.

This means that it is a physical place and can be reached through some means other than portals.

If it turns out that decrypted casters can't leave through a portal, they will just have to leave some other way.




I don't know that that's necessarily a safe assumption. It could be not even ON Erf at all. A different plane of existence, or something. Who knows? Perhaps the Magic Kingdom was created before Erf. A sort of 'garden of Eden' type of thing.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 114

Postby Werebiscuit » Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:05 am

Goshen wrote:So, those troops will probably have to stay in the Magic Kingdom, then? Certainly, if they would disband every time they go through a portal. Or it might be okay for them to leave the kingdom, but not come back in.

Thank you Xin for all the great art! And congrats on finishing book 2. It's an awesome story.
.

Either way the troops will have to stay. If they can leave then they can't re-enter to guard parson on his next jaunt... so does he bring more bodies with him ? And who does he get to decrypt the bodies ?.. And who guards him while they're bringing in bodies ?
No ! Better to have a permanent guard around the portal he will enter by.... and of course around his person while he's in the MK. Casters should be a different matter from the troops



Just like to add to the Thanks for Xin's work
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Re: Book 2 – Page 114

Postby cheeseaholic » Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:26 am

Nice job Parson with the "And figure out how to kill Charlie" via thinkagram. He's forcing the Great Minds into the fray with that. Less thinking more doing. He could have certainly agreed to follow them outside of thinkagram so he's trying to drag them in. He'll be negotiating from more strength with them forced into it.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 114

Postby Kaed » Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:40 am

Man, I don't care about any of that stuff. What really has me psyched is something I don't think any of you are really considering - never mind the specifics of what Parson counts as, the really important thing is that Parson can cast spells.

It doesn't matter whether he's a warlord plus casting or a caster with leadership. The exciting thing for me is he now has a reason to seriously start studying magic as more than a tool for plans of battle - he has a journey of self discovery ahead of him now, during which I as a reader am going to relish the outpouring of magic system data like a hungry boy standing in a chocolate fountain.
UNLESS someone like you cares a whole awful lot, nothing is going to get better. It's not.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 114

Postby 0beron » Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:41 am

Cheese makes a good point....Charlie has already shown he wants Parson "gone" right to Parson's face, and that dead is an acceptable substitute for that haha. Charlie also probably KNOWS the Great Minds are his enemy...so Parson isn't really doing anything risky or giving away info by saying "in front of" Charlie that the great minds are gonna help him kill him.

Also, what Kaed said, times a metric boop-ton.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 114

Postby YesNinja » Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:55 am

Yeah, I have to admit that one of the things that I'm most excited for is for Parson to start looking in to magic. Especially with Ace. They're gonna come up with some booping great toys and accessories, I can tell you that!
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Re: Book 2 – Page 114

Postby Keldaria » Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:51 am

technojunkie wrote:"then you can expect to join my personal guard" OMG Parson is getting DARK! Methinks he and ruthlessness haven't parted ways just yet.


Its amazing what 2 attempts on your life will do to your willingness to put up with the BS of those conspiring to kill you. So far thats 2 attempts on his life this turn for those who are counting, both organized by charlie or those acting on charlies behalf. Erfworld might be having a Royal vs Non-Royal war, but I suspect the Parson vs Charlie war will eclipse the existing war really fast. Lets face it, there are many many royals that would consider siding with stanley, to support Parson's war on charlie. I see book 3 as being framed as a Giant Charlecomm vs Parson & Company war. Lets face it that war is likely going to be even more divisive than Royal vs Non-Royal.

YesNinja wrote:Yeah, I have to admit that one of the things that I'm most excited for is for Parson to start looking in to magic. Especially with Ace. They're gonna come up with some booping great toys and accessories, I can tell you that!


Ace and Parson are a great combination. I know that Parson will have fun getting Ace to create all sorts of stupid world items (both actual and fictional) to utilize for greater effect.

Jamus wrote:Jack does not look like he gives even one. His look creeps me out, and I had to go back to find living jack to compare to.

Jack was always very ashen, grey, almost green in complexion. Now he's pink. He had pink eyes, like Maggie. Now they're blue.

That's so weird. I'm more convinced than ever that there's some sort of signamancy or pattern to the faces and eyes. It's not just Jack's livery that changed. What are we missing there?


Keep in mind we've already seen that underlying loyalty can eventually turn a unit/signamancy back to normal, I would bet that if Jack were ever put into a situation where he had to choose between following wanda or following parson that he would turn back to normal.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 114

Postby Glenn » Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:56 am

The really important thing about this page is that Marie Predicts that the Last War Ever has begun. How could it possibly be the Last War, unless it is Fated that everybody be dead by the end of it? Does anyone really think that just by killing Charlie, Parson can insure that everyone lives on in peace and freedom forever? Parson's real enemy isn't Charlie, it's the inexorable Fate that is causing him to bring about the end of Erfworld.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 114

Postby Keldaria » Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:57 am

Actually now for an entirely different note..

Did anyone else notice that Parson specifically asked for a thinkagram even tho he knows charlie has them all compromised outside of the thinkamancer stronghold.. and then he specifically stated that he was "going to figure out how to kill charlie".

Maybe its just me but, does anyone else think he wanted charlie to know he's done with the games and he's out for blood? or did he simply forget and let the cat out of the bag in the heat of the moment?

At any rate I think its clear on both sides that this means war.

Glenn wrote:The really important thing about this page is that Marie Predicts that the Last War Ever has begun. How could it possibly be the Last War, unless it is Fated that everybody be dead by the end of it? Does anyone really think that just by killing Charlie, Parson can insure that everyone lives on in peace and freedom forever? Parson's real enemy isn't Charlie, it's the inexorable Fate that is causing him to bring about the end of Erfworld.


Think of it this way, Both Charlie and Parson are lateral thinkers. Essentially now the comic has created 2 superpowers in erfworld, everyone else will just have to pick a side or they will get swept away in the combat to come. In the end only 1 will stand, whoever is the victor, it's extremely likely that nobody would dare challenge their "Will". Its also been said before in the comic that if parson (and by effect charlie) manage to break enough things, that maybe the endless war cycle will be broken too.
Last edited by Keldaria on Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 114

Postby 0beron » Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:59 am

Glenn wrote:The really important thing about this page is that Marie Predicts that the Last War Ever has begun. How could it possibly be the Last War, unless it is Fated that everybody be dead by the end of it?... Fate that is causing him to bring about the end of Erfworld.

Eh, I'm more inclined to think that he's gonna break the game. He won Book 1 by "cheating", and arguably same for Book 2. That's his Fate, he's gonna find a way to make it so Erfworld can sustain peace.

Keldaria wrote:Actually now for an entirely different note..
Yeah, people have already mentioned that, specifically I addressed some reasoning why that's not really such a big deal after all.
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GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 114

Postby kagato23 » Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:02 pm

0beron wrote:*facepalm* The point is not whether or not Parson IS a caster, it's whether people THINK he is. Up until just "10 minutes ago" not even Parson knew he could cast. So yes, prior to that, he was not supposed to be in the MK, hence why he was barred and met with hostility. Your question was about previously, so I answered you about what happened before. If you're gonna ask a question, stick to one before moving on to another mid-conversation.

Now, on the topic of his PRESENT situation, there are 2 reasons he probably still shouldn't be allowed. 1) The fact that he CAN cast after all might be something he wants to keep secret, so he may not wish to tell any MK casters "Oh btw, I'm one of you after all." 2) He and GK just violated a whole host of MK laws/conventions, so regardless of his "right" to be there as a caster, there are no doubt many who would wish to revoke that right.


Also, while he may or may not be a caster vs a "special" he's undeniably a warlord. Which means some might say "Casters only means 'no warlords' as well" or "Maybe Caster and Warlord are the wrong words here. Maybe the right word is abomination." depending on your outlook. Though the matter is no longer a hypothetical debate so much as "he just said how it is. We gonna let that stand or was he right?"
Portal X Parson OTP!
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Re: Book 2 – Page 114

Postby drachefly » Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:50 pm

On the question of whether he's a warlord: the bracer thinks so:

http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/ ... -05-18.png
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Re: Book 2 – Page 114

Postby 0beron » Fri Aug 02, 2013 2:12 pm

drachefly wrote:On the question of whether he's a warlord: the bracer thinks so:
http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/ ... -05-18.png

True, but notice the (Chief) is attached to it. Personally I think he is indeed a Warlord+stuff since the Spell did ask for a Warlord after all. But just to play devil's advocate, the Bracer may just say that because he's presently a CWL.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 114

Postby Jinren » Fri Aug 02, 2013 2:31 pm

YesNinja wrote:So I guess the question is: Is Parson a caster with the Special of having a Leadership bonus, or is he a Warlord with the Special of being able to cast scrolls (and maybe more)?


I am inclined to wonder whether Erfian conventional wisdom is simply wrong, and that casters are just a type of warlord with poor stats and an array of specials to compensate for that (based on the logic that X money gets you a unit of X quality, and that casting is expensive and therefore eats up any remaining positives for a unit). In which case, a) Parson has a (weak, admittedly) selection of both because presumably 350K schmuckers is far more than the average commander pop would cost, and therefore Stanley simply gets what he paid for; and b) it should be possible to either stack the casting special onto warlords, or promote casters to warlord-class, at huge additional expense, effort, and risk (for the levelling).

Archons indicate that casting is a separate attribute from MK access or command, and that knight-class units can cast. Casters have leadership and potentially command bonus. Ace has signamancy that suggests he might actually have a couple of combat points. Stanley proved that an unadorned unit can be promoted to a different class. Therefore, it is possible that Erf culture has simply been drawing a lot of lines based on social rather than literal divisions (remember this is a world where royalty and tradition have dominated for centuries and where casters immediately sequester themselves off into an intellectually separate elite; purely social rules are strong here).
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Re: Book 2 – Page 114

Postby 0beron » Fri Aug 02, 2013 2:37 pm

Eh, I agree with the first part, that Parson is likely a strange "Warlord" like none Erfworld has ever seen before. And I'll even hand it to you that perhaps it'd be within the Rules for a Caster to actually be CWL, and it's just never been done because nobody wants to risk a high-level caster in combat where the CWL bonus is highest.

But some of your other ideas are stretches. 1) Popping doesn't cost anything, it's a matter of production. Schmuckers are for upkeep, not popping. So the idea that you can pay extra to get magical Warlords doesn't hold up. 2) I think if you could pay to promote normal units into casters, we'd see way more of them. People will always defy convention, case and point being the existence of non-royal sides. If it were possible, somebody would do it...and at the very least they'd know it was possible. Erflings are born with complete knowledge of all the rules that pertain to their role. So Rulers would pop knowing that promotion was possible.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 114

Postby ThisIsNotDan » Fri Aug 02, 2013 2:59 pm

Not to derail the conversation, but does anybody have any idea what Stanley's reaction to all of this will be? Spacerock is virtually undefended right now--a few wounded dwagons, three wounded decrypted, and any decrypted that Parson decided wouldn't be necessary as his personal guard--and all the casters are with Parson. Meanwhile Stanley is several turns away from his capital with no way to get there except to fly. Can Parson's system of dwagon waystations get Stanley all the way to Spacerock this turn? Is Stanley smart enough to use it? What about the rest of the units defending Gobwin Knob losing whatever bonus they get for fighting alongside their overlord? Can they hold the city without his leadership?

And all of this predicament seems to me like it's going to piss off Stanley. He seems like he kind of had a change of heart when he changed the capital to rescue Parson, but Stanley's the type to un-change pretty quickly when he realizes the consequences.

Also, a comic with a definitive pink-skinned Jack: http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F107.jpg
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Re: Book 2 – Page 114

Postby Mogster2 » Fri Aug 02, 2013 3:31 pm

I'm assuming that the 40-ish units he initially had Wanda decrypt are still in Spacerock, and the ones now in the MK were not decrypted until after they were carried thru the portal. But that does raise some questions for me:

  1. What condition is the city in now? Sizemore is in the MK and hasn't gotten any orders from the Tool to rebuild it.
  2. What kind of defense does GK have left? Did Parson leave any archons behind? I don't think he did.
  3. What happened to Cubbins?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 114

Postby peteratjet » Fri Aug 02, 2013 3:42 pm

An awesome piece of work, start to finish. Thanks for the ride Xin
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Re: Book 2 – Page 114

Postby Zeku » Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:01 pm

Oberon you're just mad that I was right about the caster vs fighter argument. Parson is walking around with 50-70 normal units and a few casters, and is not even vaguely concerned that the combined strength of the entire MK could stop him. He was only worried that they could focus and kill HIM.

It is most certainly safe to assume that the MK is a part of Erfworld, since we have learned nothing that would imply that any fundamental rules of Erfworld change upon entering the MK. Isn't it a bit radical to assume that the MK is a completely different dimension or world altogether, that is somehow only accessible to casters within Erfworld? That's just flat out convoluted. It's not a 100% assumption to say the the MK is within Erfworld, but I didn't say it was. It's more of a 99% assumption that the MK is part of Erfworld.

As such, the same magic that brings casters to the MK can be altered or applied differently to allow non-casters to pass to and from the MK. That last sentence is true, even if the MK is a different world altogether.

Thus the 'rule' that prevents the normal soldiers, and perhaps Jack and Ace from leaving the MK, can be easily circumvented.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 114

Postby 0beron » Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:31 pm

Zeku wrote:0beron you're just mad that I was right about the caster vs fighter argument [and other illogical blather]
LOL you're cute. Nobody was right about it, and as I said before your reasoning was crap, unlike some of the others who argued parson would win. Because...idk about you...but um...I didn't see a fight...did you? Nobody in the MK cared enough or was organized enough to appose him, so nobody fired a first shot.

As for your latest bogus theory, what you just started defending was NOT the same thing you initially said. You proposed, and I quote, that "It is safe to assume [the MK] came into existence after the Titans created Erfworld". THAT is the idea that I called ridiculous, so don't go trying to change your argument and make me look like an idiot. Of course it's plausible/likely the MK is a physical location within Erfworld, I wasn't debating that and you didn't even raise that issue. I was calling you out on the topic of the total lack of evidence about WHEN it was created. Not WHERE.

So to quote Parson "shut up JoJo".

EDIT: Oh and lastly, my name is spelled with a zero. Keep misspelling it, and you're going to get the guy who actually spells it with an "oh" pissed at you...and you really don't want BOTH of us hating you...considering I'm by far the much nicer one.
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GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
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