Book 2 – Page 112

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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby Beeskee » Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:18 am

Oh what the boop, Parson?

Okay folks, I honestly considered the "invade the magic kingdom" and "invade via the magic kingdom" plans to be too outlandish even for Parson, but it looks like it will be one of those, or something like that anyway. The only question is, which one? Or is Parson going to surprise (most of) us yet again?

Edit: Reading the thread, tons of other possibilities too, some of which are purely defensive. Many good ideas here.
Last edited by Beeskee on Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby Mogster2 » Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:35 am

MarbitChow wrote:
0beron wrote:To me, the fact that he came up with this plan just after talking about Jack suggests that he was gonna try to save Jack without Decryption, but how would bringing his body to the MK accomplish that?
If Jack is no longer a caster when he's decrypted, he can't pass through into the Magic Kingdom any more - he's just a normal infantry. Jack would be trapped where he's raised. When Parson takes that into consideration, he realizes he's got to move Jack's body somewhere 'safe' first, which opens up a whole lot of new possibilities once he considers using the same tactic on regular units.

Parson can test this by sending Ace thru the portal.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby Beeskee » Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:09 am

hehehe426 wrote:Wanda's scaring me ._.
I'm suddenly very afraid for Jack, when he gets decrypted. That's an evil look she's got there.


I think Jack is the most likely of them all to just shrug off decryption and go back to being what he was like before. :D He sees things as they really are, including his soon-to-be new "mistress."

If decrypted, he will get an immense boost in power from being led by a high-level croakamancer. And possibly a spiffy new look.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby Taikei no Yuurei » Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:15 am

Yeah, we've seen that it is possible for a decrypted to turn through sheer force of personality/will/personal conflict. If anyone on Erf is likely to come out of being decrypted with no serious 'brain washing' effects, Jack would be the one I think.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby Free Radical » Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:18 am

Whispri wrote:If they don't finish things with Jetstone, the RCC II will remain intact. If the RCC II remains intact, they'll face a massive invasion as soon as Jetstone can organise it. They'd end up having to reinvade Jetstone's territory, fighting battles over the Sites of Cities they'd already taken. Spacerock being the Capital is indeed a serious problem that needs solving, but abandoning it just leads to more problems in the long run. And the City's high level, so it's hardly worthless.

As far as the current defences go BTW, they may be low in numbers of soldiers, but they could have as many as five Casters to defend it from any passing Archon Swarms, including Wanda to Decrypt the dead. I don't think Charlie'd risk it. An attack on Gobwin Knob is more of a worry... but we can at least say that Charlie didn't want this to happen. So I don't think he's in a position to kill Stanley on the morrow. Assassination on his trip to Spacerock is what I'd fear.

Jetstone has just lost a significant force, as well as the caster that makes a lot of their heavies, so probably won't be feeling adventurous. Their treasury is also basically empty. Considering that Parson mentions rebuilding a city even with a Dirtamancer is quite expensive, I don't think Jetstone would even be able to rebuild Spacerock (Haggar might though).

Considering Jetstone sent most of the units to the first RCC (and now-destroyed Unaroyal was the next biggest contributor), I'm not sure how much of a threat a new invasion is at the moment. If it did happen, Parson will have a much longer time with much more resources to come up with a winning strategy. That's a threat they have time to deal with. I don't think Charlie or what he's planning is.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby Dante » Sun Jun 30, 2013 9:18 am

fjolnir wrote:He only breaks the mechanics if he can get another pyramid built at the GK end quickly.

There's no portal at the GK end anymore, so I don't see what the point of that would be. What he needs to do is get Sizemore to build a whole tunnel network through Portal Park, then he can move the bodies without detection and pyramid the target site whenever he wants to initiate a capital strike. In fact, I think that's what he's doing right now. With their Ruler and most of their powerful units in the field, this would be an ideal time to drop the hammer on Faq, which he vowed to do immediately after conquering Spacerock.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby LordAcme » Sun Jun 30, 2013 9:27 am

Regarding Jack, I'm seriously looking forward to seeing how he examines being decrypted from the inside. Rob has put some great stuff out about foolamancy before, so when Jack's viewpoint is applied to decryption, Arkentools and Wanda? Oh, this should be good.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby El_Chupacabra » Sun Jun 30, 2013 10:36 am

Was panel 7 some sort of Voltron reference?

I've seen that panel style in quite a few cartoons, but Voltron was the one that jumped out at me.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby El_Chupacabra » Sun Jun 30, 2013 10:50 am

Free Radical wrote:
Whispri wrote:If they don't finish things with Jetstone, the RCC II will remain intact. If the RCC II remains intact, they'll face a massive invasion as soon as Jetstone can organise it. They'd end up having to reinvade Jetstone's territory, fighting battles over the Sites of Cities they'd already taken. Spacerock being the Capital is indeed a serious problem that needs solving, but abandoning it just leads to more problems in the long run. And the City's high level, so it's hardly worthless.

As far as the current defences go BTW, they may be low in numbers of soldiers, but they could have as many as five Casters to defend it from any passing Archon Swarms, including Wanda to Decrypt the dead. I don't think Charlie'd risk it. An attack on Gobwin Knob is more of a worry... but we can at least say that Charlie didn't want this to happen. So I don't think he's in a position to kill Stanley on the morrow. Assassination on his trip to Spacerock is what I'd fear.

Jetstone has just lost a significant force, as well as the caster that makes a lot of their heavies, so probably won't be feeling adventurous. Their treasury is also basically empty. Considering that Parson mentions rebuilding a city even with a Dirtamancer is quite expensive, I don't think Jetstone would even be able to rebuild Spacerock (Haggar might though).

Considering Jetstone sent most of the units to the first RCC (and now-destroyed Unaroyal was the next biggest contributor), I'm not sure how much of a threat a new invasion is at the moment. If it did happen, Parson will have a much longer time with much more resources to come up with a winning strategy. That's a threat they have time to deal with. I don't think Charlie or what he's planning is.


Problem is, we're not just dealing with Jetstone.

There's a comic way back in Book 1 where Charlie references "The Great Western Conflict", which clearly indicates the RCC/GK war was only a large one on a fraction of the "world map". There's fairly constant reference to forgotten sides that did not survive, effectively "ghost civilizations" that were lost in forgotten wars. Jillian's tales of mercenary fighting suggest they traveled extremely far to get work from sides so far away they would not even recognize neighbors of neighbors of Faq, so as to keep anonymity.

In short, this world appears to be quite large, and Parson has metaphorically "claimed the New World for Spain" with this action. That's GOT to bring some attention to him from other parties, that may decide that the RCC2 needs reinforcements. There may be one or two empires out there that decide they need to get involved to preserve their relationship to the MK, and consider Parson a serious threat when they didn't even know of the RCC1/2 or GK story before.

Seems a bit risky to do all this with just 300 units, splitting them between the capitol and the MK "garrison". There's got to be an angle or justification we're missing.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby El_Chupacabra » Sun Jun 30, 2013 10:53 am

LordAcme wrote:Regarding Jack, I'm seriously looking forward to seeing how he examines being decrypted from the inside. Rob has put some great stuff out about foolamancy before, so when Jack's viewpoint is applied to decryption, Arkentools and Wanda? Oh, this should be good.


THIS. I also suspect it will be revealed Jack was Predicted to be rezzed by Marie -- hence Wanda's attitude. Perhaps even that the Prediction had a follow up that was important -- perhaps Marie

Spoiler: show
stated that the next major Fate Wanda would have could only be Predicted after Jack was rezzed after falling in battle.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby shneekeythelost » Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:40 am

If he pulls this plan off, and I don't hear "This was a Triumph" at the end, I will be very disappointed. After all, he is winning through clever use of Portals. Makes me wonder if we're going to see a 'Speedy thing go in, speedy thing come out' reference in the next panel as they toss bodies across the portal boundary.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby Free Radical » Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:12 pm

El_Chupacabra wrote:Problem is, we're not just dealing with Jetstone.

There's a comic way back in Book 1 where Charlie references "The Great Western Conflict", which clearly indicates the RCC/GK war was only a large one on a fraction of the "world map". There's fairly constant reference to forgotten sides that did not survive, effectively "ghost civilizations" that were lost in forgotten wars. Jillian's tales of mercenary fighting suggest they traveled extremely far to get work from sides so far away they would not even recognize neighbors of neighbors of Faq, so as to keep anonymity.

In short, this world appears to be quite large, and Parson has metaphorically "claimed the New World for Spain" with this action. That's GOT to bring some attention to him from other parties, that may decide that the RCC2 needs reinforcements. There may be one or two empires out there that decide they need to get involved to preserve their relationship to the MK, and consider Parson a serious threat when they didn't even know of the RCC1/2 or GK story before.

Seems a bit risky to do all this with just 300 units, splitting them between the capitol and the MK "garrison". There's got to be an angle or justification we're missing.

The post you're replying to was continuing my earlier suggestion that Parson intends to raze Spacerock to forcibly change capitals to Gobwin Knob and simply move the bodies through the tunnel and the other portal straight to Gobwin Knob to decrypt them there. Your reply seems to be based on a permanent outpost in the magic kingdom which I never mentioned and don't expect Parson to make.

I think my suggestion is exactly the angle you think was being missed though - Parson won't technically bring anything but objects through the magic kingdom and will be exiting through his own portal, so this stunt won't even have broken any more magic kingdom rules.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby Taikei no Yuurei » Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:25 pm

Dante wrote:
fjolnir wrote:He only breaks the mechanics if he can get another pyramid built at the GK end quickly.

There's no portal at the GK end anymore, so I don't see what the point of that would be. What he needs to do is get Sizemore to build a whole tunnel network through Portal Park, then he can move the bodies without detection and pyramid the target site whenever he wants to initiate a capital strike. In fact, I think that's what he's doing right now. With their Ruler and most of their powerful units in the field, this would be an ideal time to drop the hammer on Faq, which he vowed to do immediately after conquering Spacerock.

Jetstone as well. They likely haven't (and can't) made it all the way to the new capital so quickly. Could do two capital strikes to take out both sides right now, then focus on Charlie later.

Edit: I wonder if these reactions ever get used as fuel for other characters (like Stanley) asking "Why didn't you do this instead?" when all the benefits of his decision aren't immediately obvious.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby DevilDan » Sun Jun 30, 2013 1:43 pm

Parson's got enough enemies without antagonizing even more casters. He's not going to go on a kill and conquer spree--it's not in his character and he doesn't trust Wanda enough to commit to an all-out decryption strategy in the zombie-snowball mold. (Particularly since we still don't know the effects of caster decryption, though my guess is that Jack will have his powers still).

He could raze the city--without fearing anyone in the RCC taking it over and making it of strategic importance, as probably no one in the RCC is flush with smuckers at the moment. But he can hold it too, since a counterattack is unlikely--especially if everyone else assumes that it's full of decrypted troops. One practicaly reason to raze it is indeed to have the portal return to GK.

That said, he could conceivably try a decapitation strike against the new Jetstone capital.

This could, on the other hand, simply be his way of protecting himself from both the carnymancers and the thinkamancers (he doesn't want to be the pawn of the latter, of course, and he hasn't forgotten that they tried to kidnap him).

For Sizemore to turn against or run away from Parson would be a major shift, but I think this is not quite likely just yet since Janis has continued to urge the dirtamancer to follow and aid Parson.

One thing that should be addressed but probably wont be is that Charlie must know that GK has a big dwagon force and can probably deduct Parson's dwagon-harvest scheme, making GK's overlord a tempting target, with a little ingenuity.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby ruleno2 » Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:17 pm

8-) Called it.

I didn't think Parson would take a slow approach through the portal like the pyramid though. It seemed more vulnerable than a quick rush scenario, just due to not knowing what the other casters could throw at them if they figure out what he's doing. But I'm probably wrong - if only other dirtamancers (of which there are supposedly very few) can get past the pyramid and GK's quick enough to move the bodies they're fine. I guess there probably wasn't a way to use dirtamancy to mass-move the bodies, since the rule may be you can only take objects carried by caster units. Parson might be right to bank on the MK casters not figuring it out before he gets enough of his force in, too, if they don't figure out he's decrypting in the pyramid. At least not with the Predictamancers/Thinkamancers working the crowd to try and prevent anyone from making a move before Parson can decrypt / threaten to decrypt a sizeable force.


Oreo2483 wrote:So, if he decrypts a personal army in the MK. He would then have a strong hand with which to bargain with the various groups who want to control him.

I think that's exactly it. Keep a strike force in the MK capable to attacking any city at any time. If Parson can maintain it, it's the most powerful position on Erf. IF.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby Keighvin1 » Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:38 pm

I can't remember if anyone said this, but how many troops did GK lose this turn? Stanley said it was roughly half the army, and I'm trying to guess how much the ~300 potential troops would represent of that.

It seems to me that any plan that would strand a large portion of your troops in a place they could never leave against at least an equal number of casters would be a poor plan, to say the least. And attempting to attack other Capitals through the MK is also a poor decision, since the first time they did it would be enough to turn every caster against them, and using decrypted to attack other Capitals would leave the tunnels and pyramids woefully undefended against a concerted attack.

Not to mention, if the hippiemancers were willing to stop attacks against GK in the MK, the casters could just go through their Portals and organize a conventional assault on GK.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby cheeseaholic » Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:12 pm

As far as Jack goes, I'm just hoping that any remaining brain damage from the link is healed.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby Dusso » Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:32 pm

I think the most likely tactic for Parson is to store the bodies in MK just to lure Charlie to attack with false bracer calculation and then bring them back and decrypt to have winning hand.
The other solutions are much weaker, as decrypted units in MK would be probably destroyed in any other portals and any invasion would require to bring the bodies through MK to enemy portal, move the bodies safely through, bring safely Wanda to decrypt - such complicated logistic chain would be very risky for Wanda and anyone trying to carry the bodies through (like Parson?) and it would be very easy to destroy those bodies or the carriers before decryption, so I don't think it would be worth the risk. On the other hand, just storing the bodies in MK in pyramid and tunnel to make the bracelet predicting basing on false conditions would be much less risky and still quite effective.

On a side note, the Erfword is organized mainly basing on stacks of 8 units - wouldn't it be more natural for Parson to ask Wanda to decrypt just 3-4 stacks of units instead of three dozen troops? What do you think? :)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby BrotherRool » Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:47 pm

I can't see this being an immediate invasion of the MK for a non-logical reason. It's very specifically a pyramid which suggests he's exploiting an ability to preserve dead. If it were a screen to hide his plans for an immediate invasion of the MK then as a writer/artist I imagine them doing something more box like. As well as that, I seriously doubt his capability to do it or his motivation. His alliances wouldn't last long.

I've got similar issues with the idea of constant strike forces into other people's portals. Trying to transfer corpses in any reasonable number across the magic kingdom without being ripped to pieces by the casters seems impossible. Also if you were preparing a strategy like that which can't be ultimately hidden from the other casters you might as well force their hand now and build the pyramid centrally so it's easier to transport the bodies to any portal of your choice. You basically need to have invaded and be incontrol of the MK for it to work anyway.

So I'm favouring the idea of exploiting the MK for something better than normal decryption, maybe full resurrection, or it's a trap to lie in wait until when you might eventually need forces in the MK, or a trap for charlie. Long term plans like that fit the pyramid shape better and it's location
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby Lipkin » Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:55 pm

I concur that moving the bodies to MK is not an offensive tactic. It would both be ineffective and risky.

And if you think that Sides aren't going to start posting guards on their portals, you are fooling yourselves.

But Parson doesn't have the opportunity to take out Jetstone right now. Doing so would require tossing bodies through manually, because if they are decrypted, they won't be able to pass. That would be incredibly slow. Slow enough to be stopped by someone in the MK, and slow enough to be noticed by someone on the other side of the portal. On top of that, it would require sending Wanda through the portal to Jetstone with 0 intel. It's very unlikely that any of their troops hail from the old capitol, and they lost both of their royal warlords who would have the best knowledge of the new location. It would take too long to build a force capable of threatening Jetstone, and it would be too dangerous to send Wanda through, not know whats on the other side of the portal.
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