Book 2 - Text Updates 058

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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 058

Postby mcw0933 » Tue May 07, 2013 4:33 pm

youngstormlord wrote:There are many things about portals to Magic Kingdom we don't know yet but might be important. Most of them are questions about units.

... questions 1 through 5 ...

So many questions that probably not even Charlie knows answers to.

What if Decrypted can move through portal and right there into MK? What if Dolls/Golems can do the same? Can Decrypted dwagons enter MK? Now it seems more clear why would the whole MK hate and fear Wanda, if all that is true. She is breaking all the portal rules just by existing. Imagine Wanda croaking a caster then Decrypting it right there in MK. Then two of them croaking two casters and decrypting them. Hell, she doesn't even have to do it herself. Just throw a bunch of dead bodies through the portal, send Wanda with Pliers and have a growing army on the other side.


This all got me thinking: we haven't actually seen what happens to a non-caster that steps through the portal. All we know is Bea stepped through and her side ended. We also know that Parson stepped through and got immediately shanghaied by GMTTA.

So what if the portal doesn't obliterate non-casters - the GMTTA does? Keeping a pretty strong lock on the neutrality of the MK in the process, since no word can get out.

Kinda surprised Parson hasn't (hadn't) done any experimentation on Erf physics re: portals. Or perhaps he has and we're just not privy to that either. :)
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 058

Postby Lipkin » Tue May 07, 2013 4:43 pm

Keep in mind that Carnymancy is anti-fate magic. It's about rigging the game. I think it's less likely that Charlie is using predictamancy than it is that he is pulling the strings behind the scenes on many of these events.

I think it's likely that Charlie gave Jojo the scroll shortly after Parson escaped to the MK the first time, or at least shortly after Jojo became barbarian. Once Janis, Marie, and Sizemore entered the tunnel with Parson, it was unlikely that Jojo was going to be able to convince Parson to use the scroll, and once Janis put the whammy on him, Jojo didn't have the option to cast it himself. When he saw that Parson was still trying to enter the portal, Jojo, and by extension, Charlie, knew that the scroll plan wasn't going to cut it. And they'd lose their shot at getting rid of Parson if Parson went with the Thinkamancers, so now the goal was getting Parson through the portal.

I'm not seeing anything that can't be explained by planning, and evesdropping on Thinkagrams. And since Issac implied Thinkagrams are not necessarily secure, this works for me as a solution.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 058

Postby shneekeythelost » Tue May 07, 2013 5:51 pm

This has to be Fate working in mysterious and subtle ways. No other force on Erf is capable of pulling this kind of stunt.

Charlie is jamming Thinkamancy on all channels. So it is entirely plausible that Maggie didn't even receive the order. And something more subtle isn't going to punch through the jamming either.

No, this isn't a case of Parson being a Hippimancer, this is Fate deciding that this is not his turn to Croak and taking steps to ensure that.

Besides, switching capitals would remove the portal in GK. Which means that while Parson would be able to get into Magic Kingdom, he wouldn't be able to get back to his side-controlled areas. AND he'd be stuck in Magic Kingdom until His Toolship changes the Capital back. During which time, Parson is vulnerable to attack from oblique angles via casters in Charlie's employ. He *IS* known as a good employer in MK, isn't he?

Perhaps not auto-death, but certainly not out of the fire. And in a whole NEW bunch of problems. Not the least of which being the fact that he's the only non-caster in GK, with all the prejudices implied.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 058

Postby Pokota » Tue May 07, 2013 6:49 pm

zyxophoj wrote:Also, it depends rather heavily on Wanda ... not being Wanda.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 058

Postby Lipkin » Tue May 07, 2013 7:48 pm

Spinning off IS the most tactically sound choice. It keeps GK from becoming vulnerable, while also saving Parson and the troops at Spacerock. Plus, it puts Parson on the front lines. Having Parson there to protect the border of Gobwin Knob would do a lot to dissuade reprisals. Who in their right mind would want to boop with Parson if they could help it?
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 058

Postby Oberon » Tue May 07, 2013 7:57 pm

Noigel wrote:- I can definitely see Stanley and Zhopa as they trek up the stairs to help Parson. :)
Zhopa's offer to help would seem to be relevant to his observation that Parson has needed help to accomplish the great things he has accomplished.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 058

Postby Urf » Tue May 07, 2013 8:01 pm

Can Twolls fabricate Thrones?
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 058

Postby Lipkin » Tue May 07, 2013 8:43 pm

Urf wrote:Can Twolls fabricate Thrones?

In less than two minutes? Probably not.

Cool idea though.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 058

Postby cheeseaholic » Tue May 07, 2013 11:58 pm

Lipkin wrote:
Urf wrote:Can Twolls fabricate Thrones?

In less than two minutes? Probably not.

Cool idea though.


I can only hope that Parson did in fact teach the twoll how to make folding chairs.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 058

Postby LTDave » Wed May 08, 2013 12:02 am

It seems to me that this is just a cut scene to explain why, in the next comic, Stanley is back in the throne room, deciding what to do.

I think he'll switch the capital site, Sizemore will go through to Jetstone, and put out the fire (Dirt Golems probably don't burn).

This leaves us with Parson out on the edges of the GK empire, surrounded by enemies, with no real way of getting home. Book III.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 058

Postby mortissimus » Wed May 08, 2013 3:56 am

Then Wanda goes through and decrypts all that has not been burned. Instant army.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 058

Postby warriortribble » Wed May 08, 2013 6:37 am

Stanley wrote:If Hamster bit it now, he’d never get the chance to mentor him, maybe even groom him for his own side someday.

It's interesting that Stanley actually is one of the few people in Gobwin Knob who could help Parson with his recent irrational and overly sentimental actions. Stanley started life as a piker and was promoted to loftier positions. He should be one of the few people on Erf who's painfully aware of what it's like to send people you considered your equals to their deaths. He should be able to help Parson with the guilt that inevitably comes from such a position.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 058

Postby drachefly » Wed May 08, 2013 7:23 am

Oberon wrote:I refer you to Vinny and the bats at the donut of doom, as just one example. And Vinny wasn't even the CWL, he was just a warlord giving remote orders to a unit.


Bats have a scouting special, and IIRC there's the concept of a linked bat. It might not be the best example case here.

Oberon wrote:My favorite part of this update: Stanley actually thinking about his feelings towards Parson


Agreed.

the_tick_rules wrote:I remember when the tools dragon squad fought Transylvito and he was using the hammer and Vinnie was pretty sure he couldn't leave the hex with it, and I'm pretty sure he didn't.


Considering his dwagon never died, you're quite correct that he didn't actually leave the hex by hammer-flight.

teratorn wrote:
drachefly wrote:This is a totally unfounded assertion.


You're arguing just for the sake of it.


I'm trying not to jump to conclusions.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 058

Postby Smoker » Wed May 08, 2013 8:47 am

I hesitated... but what the hell. Let's talk about the 'hammer!

Just because Vinny thought Stanley couldn't leave the hex via the hammer doesn't mean that he thinks it couldn't fly horizontally.

See, the hammer doesn't appear to be a mount, and so it shouldn't have move. Therefore it could lift the holder up and fly them around, but couldn't pass a hex boundary. That would make a lot of sense. At least enough sense for Vinny to make the call that he did.

(It kinda opens up a can of worms though. See, I would expect that if you picked up a gobwin with zero move and chucked him at the next hex, he would smoosh against the hex boundary and fall. What, however, would happen if the gobwin did have move? Would you be able to waste an enemy's move by pushing them back across the border?)

In any case, we know that the Arkenshoes give the (attuned?) wearer unlimited move, but we wouldn't expect this to be general knowledge.

It is also possible for the hammer to grant the flying special, and some of the ways that it has been described sorta suggest this, so it comes down to that old question of what stats can be seen by an enemy unit?

I have no particular position or emotional investment in this point, but its a point, and I loooove to watch them getting hammered out.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 058

Postby 0beron » Wed May 08, 2013 10:54 am

mortissimus wrote:Then Wanda goes through and decrypts all that has not been burned. Instant army.

Haha wellll that's the problem. Most of the army was Decrypted to begin with, so they Dusted. Some Jetstone troops were already Decrypted to bolster the ranks after the Fall, and they're dying now too. Wanda isn't gonna have much fodder left to work with, at least certainly not enough to rebuild the army to it's pre-Spacerock size. If an enemy figures this out and turns back to re-attack Spacerock, GK is in trouble.

Of course, she needs to come back through to try and save Jack & Ace now regardless...but still I wanted to point out the above problem.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 058

Postby Doctor Foreman » Wed May 08, 2013 11:18 am

[This is copied from a post I made on another forum. Basically, the last text update crystallized the below ideas for me.]

If you ask me, Parson is a perfect or near-perfect strategist, but he has serious shortcomings as a warlord (as in, leader): specifically, he doesn't know how to project authority and he has very problematic relationships with his colleagues.

So far in this arc, Parson's been pretty good with the strategy and tactics, but he's undermined by the "human" factor at every turn - from Wanda's irrational parley leaving the army split and her own group in immediate danger of extermination, to Ossomer's ability to break free of his conditioning, to Maggie's near-treason against her own side. The title of this book is "Love is a Battlefield", and Parson's experience as a "warlord" is with abstractions, not real human relationships.

In order to grow as a character, Parson needs to encounter a strategic no-win scenario. There needs to be a situation where even a perfect strategist cannot win. In the position of power and security Parson occupies at the book's outset, this can only occur if the side falls apart from within (as it has been doing from almost the beginning).

In such a scenario, there is no gambit that can save Parson. The only thing that can save him is a human relationship. And Stanley the Tool, the least lovable and least loved ally...has just realized he likes Parson.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 058

Postby kiyote » Wed May 08, 2013 11:32 am

Doctor Foreman wrote:
If you ask me, Parson is a perfect or near-perfect strategist, but he has serious shortcomings as a warlord (as in, leader): specifically, he doesn't know how to project authority and he has very problematic relationships with his colleagues.

So far in this arc, Parson's been pretty good with the strategy and tactics, but he's undermined by the "human" factor at every turn - from Wanda's irrational parley leaving the army split and her own group in immediate danger of extermination, to Ossomer's ability to break free of his conditioning, to Maggie's near-treason against her own side. The title of this book is "Love is a Battlefield", and Parson's experience as a "warlord" is with abstractions, not real human relationships.


That was the assumed role of Sword of Ruthlessness, at least to project authority. Sending units into battle without fearing the consequences does lead to an aura of authority.

The ability to empathize with units in the field so he can effectively lead them was the argument that Maggie gave to the Great Minds for allowing Parson through the portal. That effective leadership thing, perversely enough, only comes from not giving a boop about the people you're leading or through first hand experience leading people and booping it up.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 058

Postby Whispri » Wed May 08, 2013 12:44 pm

0beron wrote:
mortissimus wrote:Then Wanda goes through and decrypts all that has not been burned. Instant army.

Haha wellll that's the problem. Most of the army was Decrypted to begin with, so they Dusted. Some Jetstone troops were already Decrypted to bolster the ranks after the Fall, and they're dying now too. Wanda isn't gonna have much fodder left to work with, at least certainly not enough to rebuild the army to it's pre-Spacerock size. If an enemy figures this out and turns back to re-attack Spacerock, GK is in trouble.

Of course, she needs to come back through to try and save Jack & Ace now regardless...but still I wanted to point out the above problem.

Jetstone Units killed since she left include: Artemis and her Knights, many Archers who would have been killed when the Tower fell, at least part of Jetstone's airforce, a number of Dolls (twenty or so iirc) that were scattered through the garrison, at least one stack of Cloth Golems, what must be well over a hundred infantry, several soldiers in red cloaks who appeared to be Warlords, Count Downer who was certainly a Warlord and of course, Ace, their Dollamancer. Gobwin Knob Units killed since she left include a number of Hobgobwin Heavies, possibly some living Dwagons (I recall seeing an unstriped Yellow among the troops Sylvia was martialing against the Jetstone charge) and Jack, their Foolamancer. Translyvito may have lost a bat or two. There may even have been Units left on the outer walls.

The flames may be doing what a volcano couldn't, but she should be able to raise an army numbering in the hundreds if the bodies are still intact. And the Pliers aren't the only means they have for creating Units with magic.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 058

Postby youngstormlord » Wed May 08, 2013 3:10 pm

mcw0933 wrote:
youngstormlord wrote:
snip

Now it seems more clear why would the whole MK hate and fear Wanda, if all that is true. She is breaking all the portal rules just by existing. Imagine Wanda croaking a caster then Decrypting it right there in MK. Then two of them croaking two casters and decrypting them. Hell, she doesn't even have to do it herself. Just throw a bunch of dead bodies through the portal, send Wanda with Pliers and have a growing army on the other side.


This all got me thinking: we haven't actually seen what happens to a non-caster that steps through the portal. All we know is Bea stepped through and her side ended. We also know that Parson stepped through and got immediately shanghaied by GMTTA.

So what if the portal doesn't obliterate non-casters - the GMTTA does? Keeping a pretty strong lock on the neutrality of the MK in the process, since no word can get out.

Kinda surprised Parson hasn't (hadn't) done any experimentation on Erf physics re: portals. Or perhaps he has and we're just not privy to that either. :)

I like that idea. It's likely to be untrue but I still like it a lot! It's sort of like "It's not the fall that kills but the sudden deacceleration caused by hitting the ground." . It even happened the first time Parson went through portal. Sort of like (paraphrased)

All sort of casters:"Warlord is here! This is not your place warlorld! Prepare to die!"
Janis: "WAIT! He's not a warlord! He's a Hippiemancer. Don't shoot. He's one of us casters. He's the member of the club."
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 058

Postby coyotenose » Wed May 08, 2013 3:15 pm

drachefly wrote:He's thinking about using the stairs, while he's holding an arkentool that lets him fly. And Zhopa is talking about help? I hope it's throwing.


To the best of my recollection, Stanley has never used the 'Hammer to do noticeably more than move up and down. They call it "Flying" but it seems more to be "Levitating".
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