Book 2 - Text Updates 058

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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 058

Postby Urf » Wed May 08, 2013 3:20 pm

OH FFS

The Arkenhammer's flight capabilities is NOT a plot point.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 058

Postby effataigus » Wed May 08, 2013 3:29 pm

Whispri wrote:
0beron wrote:Of course, she needs to come back through to try and save Jack & Ace now regardless...but still I wanted to point out the above problem.
she should be able to raise an army numbering in the hundreds if the bodies are still intact. And the Pliers aren't the only means they have for creating Units with magic.
Combine those decrypted with the bonus the decrypted get when being lead by Wanda with her Arkentool and the fact that Wanda could start decrypting the fallen of whatever army comes at her... not much of a problem at all! I'm of the opinion that no conventional force could pose much of a problem for GK when Wanda is around. The enemy's best hopes lay with healomancers, neutralizing Wanda with ranged attacks or magic, or hitting her so asymmetrically that her side doesn't get *any* kills (which seems unlikely with how much she buffs her units).

It's an old argument.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 058

Postby coyotenose » Wed May 08, 2013 3:34 pm

mcw0933 wrote:This all got me thinking: we haven't actually seen what happens to a non-caster that steps through the portal. All we know is Bea stepped through and her side ended. We also know that Parson stepped through and got immediately shanghaied by GMTTA.

So what if the portal doesn't obliterate non-casters - the GMTTA does? Keeping a pretty strong lock on the neutrality of the MK in the process, since no word can get out.

Kinda surprised Parson hasn't (hadn't) done any experimentation on Erf physics re: portals. Or perhaps he has and we're just not privy to that either. :)


I thought this for a while also, that casters in the MK croaked or captured any non-caster that entered and hushed it up, claiming that the portals themselves were deadly. My theory was that JoJo and the other Unaroyal casters were actually taking orders from Queen Bea still; she was after all one of the only people outside of GK who had personal knowledge of the Decrypted situation and the results of TBfGK, owing to her daughter having been assimilated by them. But the update in which she stepped into the portal seems to be clear that I was wrong and that she died when she did so:

"For the Queen had destroyed herself, and Unaroyal was no more."

There's no hint of a delay. Made me kind of sad, because that means no Charlie/Bea secret alliance. It is interesting that Bea specifically asked her casters to pledge to only work for Royal sides, which Charlie is not, yet at least two of them have hired out to him.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 058

Postby coyotenose » Wed May 08, 2013 3:38 pm

Urf wrote:OH FFS

The Arkenhammer's flight capabilities is NOT a plot point.


Yes, it is. It's highly relevant that Stanley doesn't think it can speed him enough to climb all those stairs in time. Claiming it isn't a plot point is exactly the same as claiming that the recent exchange between Parson and Charlie about what Parson can't do to succeed is not a plot point.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 058

Postby youngstormlord » Wed May 08, 2013 3:39 pm

Hey, I got another fancy idea. What if someone in MK (for example, Wanda) casts a Findamancy spell on Parson? I mean, she knows what he looks like. She knows exactly where he is. And she has thinkamancer(s) to help her with casting it (btw, what is Isak's other master class in?). Is it doable? You make another summoning link up, right there in MK...

And, what about summoning other units into MK using Findamancy?
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 058

Postby Lipkin » Wed May 08, 2013 3:46 pm

youngstormlord wrote:Hey, I got another fancy idea. What if someone in MK (for example, Wanda) casts a Findamancy spell on Parson? I mean, she knows what he looks like. She knows exactly where he is. And she has thinkamancer(s) to help her with casting it (btw, what is Isak's other master class in?). Is it doable? You make another summoning link up, right there in MK...

And, what about summoning other units into MK using Findamancy?

She knows what he looks like, but not where he is. The spell to summon Parson was made with a Predicatmancer, Thinkamancer, and Lookamancer, and was supposed to be cast by a Findamancer. She'd need a Lookamncer to cast another Summon Parson spell.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 058

Postby youngstormlord » Wed May 08, 2013 3:59 pm

Lipkin wrote:
youngstormlord wrote:Hey, I got another fancy idea. What if someone in MK (for example, Wanda) casts a Findamancy spell on Parson? I mean, she knows what he looks like. She knows exactly where he is. And she has thinkamancer(s) to help her with casting it (btw, what is Isak's other master class in?). Is it doable? You make another summoning link up, right there in MK...

And, what about summoning other units into MK using Findamancy?

She knows what he looks like, but not where he is. The spell to summon Parson was made with a Predicatmancer, Thinkamancer, and Lookamancer, and was supposed to be cast by a Findamancer. She'd need a Lookamncer to cast another Summon Parson spell.


Not quite true. She knows exact hex where Parson is, relative to Gobwin Knob and probably to MK as well. I didn't really mean "Summon perfect warlord from everywhere in reality" sort of Findamancy spell. I more thought of "Summon Archenshoes that are in this hex and you know their properties" sort of Findamancy spell. No need for Lookamancer. Only Findamancer (or able replacement) that knows how Parson looks like and in which hex he is.

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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 058

Postby effataigus » Wed May 08, 2013 5:40 pm

youngstormlord wrote:Hey, I got another fancy idea. What if someone in MK (for example, Wanda) casts a Findamancy spell on Parson?
Guessing it's not that easy, if only because Parson hasn't abused it yet.

Parson: "Hey, Ansom... what do your dad and your bro look like again?... K, thanks. Ready, Yoinkamancer? Ready, Zhoppa?"
Zhoppa: "We ready, lud."
Parson: "Cast!"
Bernard-Bianca-Maggie: "YOINK!"
Slately: "What the dithers!?"
Ossomer: "By the titans!"
Zhoppa: "SMASH!"
Parson: "Eww... Yoinkamancer, break link. Done? K. Thanks for the help, Bernard, and Bianca. Your upkeep will be paid for 7 turns, as promised."

/Jetstone.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 058

Postby youngstormlord » Wed May 08, 2013 5:59 pm

effataigus wrote:
youngstormlord wrote:Hey, I got another fancy idea. What if someone in MK (for example, Wanda) casts a Findamancy spell on Parson?
Guessing it's not that easy, if only because Parson hasn't abused it yet.

Parson: "Hey, Ansom... what do your dad and your bro look like again?... K, thanks. Ready, Yoinkamancer? Ready, Zhoppa?"
Zhoppa: "We ready, lud."
Parson: "Cast!"
Bernard-Bianca-Maggie: "YOINK!"
Slately: "What the dithers!?"
Ossomer: "By the titans!"
Zhoppa: "SMASH!"
Parson: "Eww... Yoinkamancer, break link. Done? K. Thanks for the help, Bernard, and Bianca. Your upkeep will be paid for 7 turns, as promised."

/Jetstone.


Lol, that actually made me giggle like a schoolgirl. And I'm a man!

But seriously, Parson is using what he's got. If he actually had master level Lookamancer and master level Findamancer, I can see him using that strategy. I mean, we have seen some inspired use of veils and Foolamancy(dwagons became siege. And remember how they captured and croaked Ossomer after that?), Croakamancy and Dance Fighting, even Dirtamancy (remember that tunnel in MK?). Besides, they were winning before attacking Jetstone's capital of Spacerock, so there was no need for groundbreaking strategy.

P. S. What would have happened if Perfect Warlord spell actually summoned Slately instead of Parson? Talk about the quick end of conflict :)
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 058

Postby Nieki » Wed May 08, 2013 6:33 pm

This is probably a minor note, but I registered for one reason: The callback hidden in this update. I don't know if it's intentional or people have discussed it or not, but I'm pretty sure it's deliberate--and significant.

Zhopa wrote:Everybody need help, Lud. Is leetle theengs that make a difference, sometimes. Would be a shame, he croaks.


Of all things, it's calling back to:

Page 1, Book 1, sentence 1 wrote:It's the little things which make a difference sometimes.


Perhaps this is nothing, or perhaps it's Fate at work: before, it spurred another loss for Stanley the Plaid, removing Lord Manpower the Temporary from his position and spurring the need for a new Warlord to begin with. If this is Fate--active fate, or as Parson put it--

Parson Gotti wrote:I mean you. "Erfworld."


Then Fate may be acting on Stanley to prevent Parson's loss. There are strong indications Parson is not going to croak, but what position will he be in at the end of all this? Is Erfworld itself opposed to him dying? Is he, for lack of a better term, "special"? It's clear that Charlie wants him gone, wants him under his employ or out of the picture entirely. Why? What does Fate have in store for him, for them? Does Charlie--in line with his Thinkamancy--know something we do not about Mr. Gotti?
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 058

Postby Jinren » Wed May 08, 2013 8:41 pm

Smoker wrote:See, the hammer doesn't appear to be a mount, and so it shouldn't have move. Therefore it could lift the holder up and fly them around, but couldn't pass a hex boundary. That would make a lot of sense. At least enough sense for Vinny to make the call that he did.

(It kinda opens up a can of worms though. See, I would expect that if you picked up a gobwin with zero move and chucked him at the next hex, he would smoosh against the hex boundary and fall. What, however, would happen if the gobwin did have move? Would you be able to waste an enemy's move by pushing them back across the border?)


As of Inner Peace it has been established that vehicles are also a thing, although their movement rules have not. So a unit's ability to cross hexes can be directly affected by items in a mechanical or apparently-mechanical way.

Anyway neither vehicles nor for that matter mounts would be any use if your move depleted when you crossed a hex boundary on some other unit's volition. You'd just go flying off dwagonback in midair...
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 058

Postby 0beron » Wed May 08, 2013 8:43 pm

effataigus wrote:The enemy's best hopes lay with...hitting her so asymmetrically that her side doesn't get *any* kills.

This is exactly what I'm fearing. That someone will be clever enough to find a strategic weakness in her forces and attack them at this weak moment asymmetrically.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 058

Postby coyotenose » Wed May 08, 2013 9:30 pm

It just occurred to me that the perfect means for someone in Zhopa's position to get someone like Stanley to the top of the tower - making an assumption about the relative position of the garrison larder - would be to use a dumbwaiter. Unfortunately I can't find a mention of anything like one or think of how the rather limited staff of henchmen in Gobwin Knob would make use of one.

Plus gawd knows what a "dumbwaiter" would actually be in Erfworld.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 058

Postby Kreistor » Thu May 09, 2013 10:24 am

All Zhopa needs to do is fabricate a rope with a hook on it that Stanley can toss through a window to provide lateral motion.

And how do we get Stanley to do something? We appeal to his self-centered nature. It's all about not wanting to go through the pain of grief. Stanley is all about Stanley, in the end.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 058

Postby Urf » Thu May 09, 2013 10:38 am

Self-interest and side-interest are not mutually exclusive.

Simultaneity is a recurring theme in Book 2. I maintain that Stanley's involvement will result in a misfire, not because of an intentional sabotage but due to separate interests operating without concordance. HOW he gets to the Throne is inconsequential. He will, and shit will happen.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 058

Postby Smoker » Thu May 09, 2013 11:03 am

Jinren wrote:
Smoker wrote:See, the hammer doesn't appear to be a mount, and so it shouldn't have move. Therefore it could lift the holder up and fly them around, but couldn't pass a hex boundary. That would make a lot of sense. At least enough sense for Vinny to make the call that he did.

(It kinda opens up a can of worms though. See, I would expect that if you picked up a gobwin with zero move and chucked him at the next hex, he would smoosh against the hex boundary and fall. What, however, would happen if the gobwin did have move? Would you be able to waste an enemy's move by pushing them back across the border?)


As of Inner Peace it has been established that vehicles are also a thing, although their movement rules have not. So a unit's ability to cross hexes can be directly affected by items in a mechanical or apparently-mechanical way.

Anyway neither vehicles nor for that matter mounts would be any use if your move depleted when you crossed a hex boundary on some other unit's volition. You'd just go flying off dwagonback in midair...


Oh yeah.. boats. Duh Doi. Jillian 'captured' a turnamancy boat.. kinda like taking a magic item, IIRC..

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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 058

Postby drachefly » Thu May 09, 2013 11:35 am

Kreistor wrote:All Zhopa needs to do is fabricate a rope with a hook on it that Stanley can toss through a window to provide lateral motion.


I hate so say it, but it would probably be faster and more reliable to have Zhopa carry him, this time. For the future, though, if he's stuck moving vertically, they should totally get a zip line set up.

Anyway... if he is stuck moving vertically, couldn't Jillian have just hung out directly under where she last saw them? There would be no need for the search they called.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 058

Postby Shai_hulud » Thu May 09, 2013 2:47 pm

Lipkin wrote:She knows what he looks like, but not where he is. The spell to summon Parson was made with a Predicatmancer, Thinkamancer, and Lookamancer, and was supposed to be cast by a Findamancer. She'd need a Lookamncer to cast another Summon Parson spell.
We don't know the spell was made with those three, only that Predictamancers were involved in some way. We EXPLICITLY don't know how the spell was made yet. Why do you keep saying things when you don't know they're true?
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 058

Postby Lipkin » Thu May 09, 2013 4:34 pm

Shai_hulud wrote:
Lipkin wrote:She knows what he looks like, but not where he is. The spell to summon Parson was made with a Predicatmancer, Thinkamancer, and Lookamancer, and was supposed to be cast by a Findamancer. She'd need a Lookamncer to cast another Summon Parson spell.
We don't know the spell was made with those three, only that Predictamancers were involved in some way. We EXPLICITLY don't know how the spell was made yet. Why do you keep saying things when you don't know they're true?

I guess I should stop listening to the wiki.

That being said, this page states that the spell was forged by Findamancers and Predictamancers.

http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F005.jpg

And this one says that casting it required Findamancy and Lookamancy.

Since the only way we currently know of crossing disciplines is with a Thinkamancer link, I assumed the Findamncers linked with the Predictamancers. But I had forgotten that Wanda said casting it took both Findamancy and Lookamancy, so I'm wrong anyway.

But we do know that 4 disciplines were involved, unless there are ways to combine efforts without linking.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 058

Postby bladestorm » Thu May 09, 2013 4:58 pm

If Stanley has such an issue with the portal, once he changes the Capitol to Spacerock (or whatever he names it), that would leave GK the city as still the most defensible position around, plus no portal. Spin Wanda off to her own Side, and that takes out her creepiness factor, and the Pliers's challenge to his supreme authority.

Or he charges through the portal and we find out that there is no autodisband, or that somehow the arkentools protect the attuned.
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